44 Replies Latest reply on Aug 19, 2018 1:34 PM by colesdav
      • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
        kingfish

        I dread 2020. End of support for Win7.

        • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
          noodles59

          I am always amused about such kinda threads - even when MS allows to set some (security) registry keys does not mean MS can't override those settings at will and pleasure as needed. 

           

          I dread 2020. End of support for Win7.

          kingfish, Win10 is a big step up compared to 7 in all aspects - it's a solid (smooth) OS provided you have reliable/sufficient hardware.

            • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
              kingfish

              I hope by 2020 enough of the 'testing' will be done that I will enjoy it as much as 7 (and 8.1)..I really do. But I see these kind of issues daily and Microsoft seems to be the last to have a finger pointed at them. After every big refresh/version of Win10 is pushed/forced on the public (who don't have 'Pro' or Enterprise) the complaints start to roll in. Not just on this site but all manner of apps and diverse programs cease to function correctly. The average user, which I am, shouldn't have to be a genius at isolating the problems to get their computer functioning again.

              But I am resigned to it...I guess.

                • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
                  noodles59

                  Relax, I am on 10Home and it just works even after big updates - Corporate environment is much more difficult since I witnessed an Office 365 rollout plainly overwriting device customizations - bit of a teeth grinding there for IT departments to restore.

                   

                  However, discard all those overclocked Home user complaints and "why this is not working BS" - homemade problems all around!

                  Geniuses are not needed for problems that do not exist when.... see above 

                  • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
                    elstaci

                    Just curious, but are you still able to upgrade to Windows 10 free. I know that the date has passed for the free upgrade, but I keep reading that Users still are able to upgrade without having to purchase the OS.

                     

                    Maybe you may want to consider Dual Boot on your computer. Windows 7 and Windows 10. That way you can find out how well your setup works in Windows 10 especially after every 6 month major upgrade. That is unless you have more than one computer in which you already have Windows 10 installed.

                     

                    WIndows 7 was one of the best Windows OS that Microsoft came out with.

                      • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
                        kingfish

                        I'm really not sure..I read the same things, some say yes some say no. But that would be for the home version.. I think. The one computer that I use for gaming, and has Win7, I am not too sure that the MB could handle it. It's a Intel DX58SO which is not supported by Intel anymore. The rest of my computers have Win8.1...which is good until 2023.

                          • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
                            elstaci

                            Maybe you can convert the Windows 7 computer into the WIndows 8.1 when Windows 7 support ends and then convert the Windows 8.1 computer to WIndows 10 which should support it.

                             

                            Seems like your Intel Motherboard can support Windows 10 as long as you are able to find drivers for it.  All the drivers for your Motherboard  at Intel Support is for Windows 7.

                             

                            This is from TenForums.com concerning Windows 10 and your motherboard: https://www.tenforums.com/installation-upgrade/27781-intel-dx58so-mb-win-10-a.html

                              • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
                                colesdav

                                Hi,

                                 

                                You can upgrade laptop or desktop from Windows Vista -> Windows 7 ->  Windows 8 -> Windows 8.1 -> Windows 10.
                                I have done it.
                                Getting drivers working can be difficult, but it is possible.

                                 

                                You cannot buy Windows 8.1 64bit licenses from Microsoft anymore.

                                Also Microsoft have been adding all sorts of Windows 10 type service packs to  Windows 8.1 64bit. The quality of Windows updates has followed suit to be at the awful quality of Windows 10 Updates.

                                 

                                I have had some recent contact with Microsoft about the quality of their Windows 10 and 8.1 updates. I note that experienced support people on the Microsoft own help forums are telling people to stay on Windows 10 17.03, because of 17.09 and 18.03 Update and service pack issues.

                                 

                                More to the point, You will have no AMD GPU Drivers for Windows 8.1 64bit since AMD dropped support for Windows 8.1 64bit since WHQL 17.4.4/ 17.7.1 drivers.
                                AMD really should not have done that, especially since many people purchased R9 FuryX and Nano Cards and RX 480's which say they are supported on Windows 7, 8.1, and 10 on box and spec. Dropping Windows 8.1 64bit was done on the quiet. I know of people going out and buying RX580 (which is just AIB RX480 with modded VBIOS to allow more power draw), only to find no Windows 8.1 64bit drivers. To me supported means GPU driver updates until Jan 2023 for Windows 8.1 64bit. AMD went back on their word as far as I am concerned. This means I had to push on with Migrating completely to Ubuntu earlier than I expected, and AMD drivers on Ubuntu has been pretty bad until ~ early - mid  2018. There is still no GPU monitoring or control GUI.

                                 

                                That means if you stay on Windows 8.1 64 bit with AMD that means:

                                 

                                1. No updates for DX11 games like PREY or any new DX12 or Vulkan titles since July 2017.
                                2. No AMD Link - if you're interested in that.

                                3. No Enhanced Sync, if you're interested in that.
                                4. Radeon Chill is available but it doesn't work properly only on a small set of Whitelisted games.
                                    I cannot enable Radeon Chill on all games to see that it doesn't work on those either.

                                 

                                People need to think about how Microsoft are treating their Users since dropping Windows 8.1 64bit, forcing Windows 10 upgrades, poor software quality of updates, data mining, etc.

                                 

                                There is only one thing to be done in my opinion.

                                 

                                Get off Windows 7, 8.1 and 10 and on to Linux as soon as possible.
                                I suggest Ubuntu 16.04 LTS initially followed by a move to 18.04LTS for people who have not run Linux before.

                                 

                                Bye.

                                  • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
                                    kingfish

                                    When they pry my dead hands off the keyboard, I'll switch to Linux. I'm talking simple colesdav. Can you with a straight face recommend to anybody to switch to Linus who's expertise/knowledge is punching the "On" button on their computer?

                                    Microsoft had the right idea...make sure everybody updates their computer. But it went south from there. Anybody with enough sense to know, should have the option as to what gets downloaded and when. Instead, users are all sheep. Baa

                                      • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
                                        colesdav

                                        Hi,

                                         

                                        Yes I can recommend that with a straight face.

                                        Especially if you run an Nvidia GPU. Nvidia provide very good proprietary drivers with a proper GUI.

                                        AMDGPU/Pro drivers are usable now, and hopefully by the end of the year there will be a GUI to monitor and control GPU.

                                         

                                        I have been running Ubuntu 16.04LTS for some time now.
                                        I am currently trying out 18.04LTS.
                                        If you have a PC with a single GPU and monitor and a modern CPU then yes.

                                         

                                        I suggest you try out Ubuntu 16.04 LTS.

                                        You can download the ISO, burn it onto a DVD and run a live copy and see if it works for your PC.

                                        If you have a spare SSHD SSD then burn a copy of Ubuntu 16.04 LTS onto it and see what you think.

                                         

                                        If you do hit problems on your hardware then fine, you loose nothing.

                                        I have had far more problems with Windows 10 than on  Ubuntu 16.04 LTS this year.

                                        I do not understand why people think Windows 10 is easy to use. Just look at the above posts about trying to stop Windows Updates alone.


                                        Bye.

                                        • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
                                          colesdav

                                          RE: Instead, users are all sheep. Baa.

                                           

                                          Hi,

                                           

                                          I do not think all users are sheep but we (ordinary consumers (Home Edition) / small business (Pro) are being treated that way.

                                          So perhaps it is time to take a stand and say enough is enough?
                                          Since you have not moved from Windows 7 it seems clear to me you have your own concerns about using Windows 10.

                                           

                                          I think you should at least give Ubuntu 16.04 LTS a try.
                                          If you do not try it out then you are simply giving in to Microsoft behavior.
                                          You still have have until January 14 2020 to resist and walk away from Windows 10 64bit becoming your Main OS.

                                           

                                          Bye.

                                            • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
                                              kingfish

                                              You must have not read all the responses from me.

                                                • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
                                                  colesdav

                                                  Hi,

                                                   

                                                  I did read your responses on this thread.

                                                  I think that you think Ubuntu is not in a state where non technical people could use it.

                                                  I have relatives and friends who run Ubuntu 16.04 LTS, who are not 'computer experts' or even interested in technology at all.

                                                   

                                                  In any case, what happens when something goes wrong with a non-technical persons PC or Laptop running Windows 10 64bit?

                                                  Does Windows fix the issues itself - absolutely not.
                                                  They will ask someone they know who is technical to help them fix it or take it to a Computer Maintenance shop to get it fixed.  

                                                   

                                                  I do not see how Ubuntu is any different, apart from the fact, in my experience at least, that software and kernel updates can run in the background whilst I am using my machine. Rolling back is easy. 

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  Many people are walking away from Windows and over to Ubuntu as their first Linux OS. 

                                                  I think that people who are reluctant to try Linux because they may have had bad experiences with Linux from years ago or maybe tried a particularly difficult Linux Distribution. Some are famous for being difficult to install, even today.


                                                  However I suggested Ubuntu 16.04LTS or 18.04LTS as the easiest way to move over to Linux from Windows.

                                                  Both Nvidia Proprietary and AMDGPU Drivers now come pre-installed.

                                                  Nvidia is a better user experience at the moment, because of the proprietary GPU driver with GUI to monitor and control GPU.

                                                   

                                                  Steam on Linux works well with Nvidia cards.
                                                  Some Steam games on Linux need updated to run with the newer AMDGPU/PRO drivers.
                                                  At the moment AMDGPU/PRO Gpu Monitoring and control can be done at the command line using rocm-smi.

                                                   

                                                  Alternatively radeon-profile could be used. I show a picture of that running on this Ubuntu 16.04 LTS machine here:
                                                  Temporary GUI Control and Monitoring solution on AMDGPU and AMDGPUPRO Ubuntu 16.04. - YouTube
                                                  I am doing some work at the moment to fix a problem where radeon-profile does not report GPU Utilisation on my machine, but it works overall. 
                                                   

                                                  Ubuntu very easy to use, and very difficult to break unless you have admin privilege, which, as a non technical user, you should not have.
                                                  You can purchase Laptops or Desktops now with Linux Ubuntu pre-installed.

                                                  At the end of the day people can either behave like a sheep and put up with Microsoft Windows 10 or they can take steps to walk away from them.


                                                  Bye.

                                                    • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
                                                      elstaci

                                                      The only experience I have had with Linux has been using a Live DVD. But from what I have seen from other Users here at AMD Forum. It seems like you need to have some programming experience to run Linux.

                                                       

                                                      For instance, With Windows you have .EXE files to run by itself including installation by clicking on the file. But in Linux ,  it seems you have to run a command line to run any type of installation program. Linux doesn't use .EXE files to run automatically by clicking on it. just my observations.

                                                       

                                                      The Linux AMD driver extension is .TAR  and you need to run certain commands to run that program and install the driver.

                                                       

                                                      True, In Windows, to troubleshoot or get information you sometimes need to know command coding. But most of the troubleshooting can be done by running certain Windows troubleshooting programs (.cabs) or 3rd party apps or by clicking on the appropriate link or icon in Windows Control Panel or Settings.

                                                       

                                                      So, Windows is much more User friendly than Linux.  Most Users turn on the computer and Windows does the rest without forcing the User to have to input command coding to perform certain tasks.

                                                        • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
                                                          colesdav

                                                          Hi,

                                                           

                                                          RE: The only experience I have had with Linux has been using a Live DVD. But from what I have seen from other Users here at AMD Forum. It seems like you need to have some programming experience to run Linux.

                                                          In the case of Ubuntu 16.04/18.04 you can install software automatically using Software Center. I do not think you need any more 'programming experience' to run Ubuntu than you need for Windows.

                                                           

                                                          What are these in Windows - I have to run this before and after every Windows Update.

                                                           

                                                          chkdsk/scan

                                                          sfc /scannow.

                                                          DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHeath. 

                                                          DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHeath. 

                                                          DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RepairHealth. 

                                                          DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image AnalyseComponentStore 

                                                          ... etc etc etc

                                                          They look like command line statements to me.

                                                           

                                                          RE:  For instance, With Windows you have .EXE files to run by itself including installation by clicking on the file. But in Linux ,  it seems you have to run a command line to run any type of installation program.

                                                          No, wrong, you can install many Linux Live CD installations by clicking on an icon on your Live CD Desktop, for example, Ubuntu, Fedora, etc.

                                                           

                                                          RE: Linux doesn't use .EXE files to run automatically by clicking on it.
                                                          You can launch Linux applications by clicking on an icon or file in a GUI.

                                                           

                                                          RE: The Linux AMD driver extension is .TAR  and you need to run certain commands to run that program and install the driver.

                                                          The Linux AMD Drivers now come pre-installed on Ubuntu now.
                                                          I am pretty sure I can use a File Manager GUI to untar a file in Ubuntu if I want.
                                                          Yes you need to run a few commands in Ubuntu to remove existing and install new drivers, it is generally easy provided AMD install instructions are clear and correct (they have been wrong in the past for Centos installations).

                                                          That is more an AMD problem than an Ubuntu problem.

                                                          AMD need to provide an installer GUI.
                                                          As stated before, AMD needed to provide an AMDGPU/PRO GUI to monitor and control GPU's years ago, it is still missing.

                                                           

                                                          At least I do not have to perform numerous reboots, DDU's in safe mode, disconnect from the internet etc etc and fight with Microsoft deliberately broken, convoluted gpedit settings etc etc.

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          Nvidia driver installation and upgrade is done via Ubuntu Software Install GUI, in a few clicks.

                                                           

                                                          RE: Troubleshooting - I have not looked into that because with Ubuntu, I don't generally need to troubleshoot basic things like running software updates.
                                                          I cannot think of many cases where the Windows Troubleshooter has actually helped me, except perhaps, troubleshooting network connections.

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          RE: So, Windows is much more User friendly than Linux.  Most Users turn on the computer and Windows does the rest without forcing the User to have to input command coding to perform certain tasks.

                                                           

                                                          I agree that Windows 10 "does the rest". Unfortunately it does it wrong far too often, and I spend too much time running troubleshooter, going on Windows Forums, I also have to to deal with bad tech support, whose only solution in the end seems to be  "install a clean copy of Windows 8.1/10" - which looses all of your program installations, and you need to do a full system backup.

                                                           

                                                          In my view, and it seems in the view of some Microsoft Support people I talk to, Windows 10 is a mess.
                                                          In terms of privacy I consider Windows 10 a virus.

                                                          I guess we will agree to disagree, I am on Ubuntu/Linux for now, and I will put up with any problems I hit on it it rather than accept Microsoft Windows 10 as my day to day OS.

                                                           

                                                          Bye.

                                                            • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
                                                              elstaci

                                                              RE:

                                                              What are these in Windows - I have to run this before and after every Windows Update.

                                                               

                                                              chkdsk/scan

                                                              sfc /scannow.

                                                              DISM / Online / Cleanup-Image / CheckHeath.

                                                              DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHeath.

                                                              DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RepairHealth.

                                                              DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image AnalyseComponentStore

                                                              ... etc etc etc

                                                              They look like command line statements to me.

                                                               

                                                              Most Users never have to run those command lines before and after a Windows Update unless they have a specific issue.  Since I been using Windows, I NEVER had to do what you do before or after a Windows Update. The only time I use those command line statements is if I feel my Windows OS is corrupted and couldn't be fixed by SFC /scannow. 

                                                               

                                                              There are also 3rd party APP like SFCFix or Winfix that runs those command lines automatically without having to input them in Command Prompt or Powershell.

                                                               

                                                              If you suspect that your Hard drive has errors there are 3rd party apps that does the same thing as chkdsk/scan.

                                                               

                                                              I never said you don't have to run Command line statements in Windows. I said when you need to troubleshoot Windows, at times, you do need to run command line statements. But normally those situations are for those who are technically inclined and knows how to do it. Most Users call Tech Support or go to Tech Support websites to learn how to run those types of command line to troubleshoot a specific issue.

                                                               

                                                              I agree that many people consider Linux to be a more stable OS than Windows. But then why isn't Linux becoming the dominant OS if Linux is so much superior to Windows. You would think that Laptop and PC Manufacturers would install Linux than have to pay millions of dollars to Microsoft to install Windows.

                                                               

                                                              Maybe in the future when Linux becomes more popular it will start challenging Microsoft Windows. But until the computer manufacturers start coming out with Linux installed laptops and PC in mass amounts and they make a profit than Windows will have to change to meet the challenges that Linux has over Windows.

                                                                • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
                                                                  colesdav

                                                                  Hi,

                                                                   

                                                                  If users are not running those DISM commands regularly they may be in for a big surprise when they do.
                                                                  I run them because I code and test software and applications. So I need to know that at least Microsoft thinks it's own installation is o.k.

                                                                  Even that is not a 100% certainty these days.

                                                                   

                                                                  RE: But then why isn't Linux becoming the dominant OS if Linux is so much superior to Windows.

                                                                  Linux is the dominant OS in all areas of Computing apart from Consumer Desktop. The reasons for this are historical.

                                                                  Linux is pretty new (~ 1991) in comparison to Microsoft operating system (MSDOS) which goes all the way back to 1981.

                                                                  MSDOS got there first to the Personal Computer and PC market. Took most of the early money in the boom days, and has stayed there.

                                                                  I think there was (and still exists) a pretty bad "Linux Culture" where I saw/see  many people with the attitude:

                                                                  "I had to work work hard to get this knowledge, therefore I am not going to make life easy for you".

                                                                  I think this attitude is toxic and has held Linux back. I think it is now changing though. I can see it happening.
                                                                  Many people realise that Linux needs to become a popular Desktop OS for consumers now, including Steam (Valve). 


                                                                  RE: But until the computer manufacturers start coming out with Linux installed laptops and PC in mass amounts and they make a profit than Windows will have to change to meet the challenges that Linux has over Windows.

                                                                   

                                                                  They already are available from many places. You can buy PC and Laptops with Ubuntu pre-installed today.
                                                                  I can see a push for Ubuntu and Linux improving significantly in gaming before the end of Windows 7 support.
                                                                  That is a good target to aim for. I think people need to step back, think, and make time to try out Ubuntu 16.04LTS or 18.04 LTS now.

                                                                   

                                                                  AMD with their excellent Ryzen and Threadripper processors should be very interested in people running Ubuntu/Linux as their main OS.

                                                                  With so many Cores available, and PCIe Passthrough support, Windows 10 can be "contained" to run within a Virtual Machine on Linux, and yet access AMD GPU Hardware for people who want to run DX12 games and get native gaming performance. To do that you do need two GPU's, which should also be of interest to AMD...  

                                                                   

                                                                  Bye.

                                                    • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
                                                      pokester

                                                      I get your sentiment about Linux. I myself like it. I don't however think that even with all the usability strides they have made and they have made a ton. It is an OS for the masses yet. It just isn't low end knowledge user capable yet. Even with all they did I think most standard users are very confused. I base this on the many older machines I loaded Linux on for friends that had XP machines they didn't want to replace.  Most however picked it up and are better for it in the long run and are more knowledgeable now then they were. My statements are really about how the transition would be very uncomfortable for many and once there still limits choices by comparison. I think that Linux in a few more versions will likely get there, if major commercial apps begin to truly sport it for sure. I like Ubuntu a lot. I don't use it daily because so much of what I do is just not on Linux unfortunately, yet I know they have alternatives but I have to use what my customers use. If the Adobe Creative Suite and the various support softwares for it were on Linux that would quickly change. I think many creative people are fed up with Mac and would jump to Linux in a heart beat if Adobe was there. Then with my games while getting so much better, it is just such a hassle to get many things working if at all. So while I can't suggest for everyone to just switch, I will say it is a great alternative for many, especially those that don't mind learning new tricks and already mostly use just open source software and the Internet, it's a no brainer. Now the funny thing is that I have had Linux updates mess up my installation in the past too. Again I really do get where you are coming from and look forward to a day that it becomes a great alternative for most. I think with MS buying GitHub and their increasing involvement in open source, I think they see the writing on the wall too.

                                                        • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
                                                          colesdav

                                                          RE: My statements are really about how the transition would be very uncomfortable for many and once there still limits choices by comparison.
                                                          Yes o.k. there is some transition effort, but I do not think it is that bad.
                                                          There are some limits in terms of Gaming RGB keyboard drivers / control software at the moment.

                                                           

                                                          We all still have until Jan 2020 (Windows 7)  or even Jan 2023 (for Windows 8.1 64 bit Users) to get away from Microsoft Windows 10.

                                                          So that gives at minimum 1 year and 5 months to make a transition over to Ubuntu 16.04/18.04 LTS.

                                                           

                                                          RE: I think that Linux in a few more versions will likely get there, if major commercial apps begin to truly support it for sure.
                                                          It seems to me there is a move, 'inspired' by Microsoft "Upgade to Windows 10" behaviour, along with many other concerns, to make Linux much easier for general users and improve it.

                                                           

                                                          There are opensource alternatives to many 'Professional'  Apps.
                                                          Look at Blender for example. It is starting to take over more and more serious Rendering and Animation tasks, that previously required very expensive commercial licenses. AMD recently did a fantastic job to improve Blender MultiGPU performance on Windows 10 64bit. Likely that work will be translated over to Ubuntu next.

                                                           

                                                          RE: . I think with MS buying GitHub and their increasing involvement in open source, I think they see the writing on the wall too.
                                                          Yes, Microsoft buying GitHub and guess what GitHub opensource developers do now? Many start to move their projects elsewhere as soon as possible.

                                                          That in itself speaks volumes to me.

                                                           

                                                          Bye.

                                                            • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
                                                              pokester

                                                              I wasn't trying in any way to debate point by point. Everyone has their reasons why they do and don't do. They aren't wrong for choosing what is right for them either. I already acknowledged that some apps are available, blender would be a great one that is. The Adobe suite is a great one that is not.  Most of  what I use professionally is not and at home the gaming is a real challenge. I already acknowledged I like Linux and especially Ubuntu. I just don't think that MOST USERS at this point would benefit as they would give up in frustration very quickly, even as easy as it is to install I don't think many would even want to seek it out and that is only an opinion based on  my experience it would just be more trouble than they want to deal with. People in general just don't like change, even MS had to figure that out. I do absolutely think with main stream support that could change.

                                                    • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
                                                      colesdav

                                                      Hi,

                                                       

                                                      Regarding Dual Boot between Windows 10 and Windows 7.

                                                      The file systems have changed.

                                                      If I leave both Windows 7 64bit and Windows 10 64bit drives in the same machine, and boot into  Windows 10, Windows 10 it tries to "repair" the Windows 7 disk.

                                                      I have removable drive caddies in my main PC to allow me to swap between Windows 7, 8.1 and 10 because of this.
                                                      Windows 8.164bit and Windows 10 64bit installations can stay plugged in at the same time.

                                                       

                                                      Bye.

                                                • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
                                                  qwixt

                                                  Seems like it's an insider build setting from what I could determine.

                                                    • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
                                                      goodplay

                                                      It was supposed to be only insider builds, but some are seeing it on release builds.

                                                      I've never installed an IP build, but that setting was enabled on my pc.

                                                        • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
                                                          black_zion

                                                          Not present in mine, though I also hang back a while, and I plan to stay on 1709 until April 2019, when I will move to 1809.

                                                           

                                                            • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
                                                              goodplay

                                                              I'm also still on 1709 Pro(giving 1803 a miss), here's my regedit

                                                              experiment.PNG

                                                              • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
                                                                qwixt

                                                                Mine is the same, and for some reason, 1803 auto installed on mine a few days ago even though i have it disabled in policy. I have Pro version too. So no idea how that happened.

                                                                  • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
                                                                    pokester

                                                                    We have now had numerous machines auto update to 1803 even though our group policy has that disabled. MS absolutely has some crap going on in the background whether it is is this or something else.

                                                                    • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
                                                                      black_zion

                                                                      Microsoft disabled the group policy and registry effect long ago back in the Anniversary Update, you need to have your connection set as metered to block the upgrades as well as be on the Semi-Annual channel, which adds an additional delay. Microsoft doesn't consider upgrades critical (yet) so they won't automatically download.

                                                                       

                                                                        • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
                                                                          elstaci

                                                                          In Windows 10 Pro, you can delay any windows updates up to a year. After the delay is over, let say one year, does Windows automatically download a year's worth of updates and upgrade your computer before you are able to prevent it again for another year?

                                                                           

                                                                          From the Microsoft Link below in the last page (25) it links to a website that shows 9 methods to stop Windows Update on Windows 10: https://linustechtips.com/main/blogs/entry/1474-nine-different-ways-to-disable-windows-update-in-windows-10/

                                                                           

                                                                          Seems like Microsoft add a special Service to prevent Users from disabling Windows Update in Version 1803. The service is called Windows Update Medic Service. Copied from the above link:

                                                                          Bonus info:

                                                                          In Windows 10 version 1803 and onward, the "Windows Update Medic Service" keep re-starting Windows Update and related scheduled tasks and re-creates Windows Update related scheduled tasks even after a person manually stops them, disables them, and removes the scheduled tasks. You could find another way to disable Windows Update Medic Service, which otherwise keeps re-starting Windows Update, and then disable Windows Update and any associated scheduled tasks.

                                                                           

                                                                          http://batcmd.com/windows/10/services/waasmedicsvc/

                                                                           

                                                                          One way to disable Windows Update Medic Service might be to disable Remote Procedure Call, which is what starts Windows Update Medic Service:

                                                                           

                                                                          http://batcmd.com/windows/10/services/rpcss/

                                                                           

                                                                          Or by deleting the file "WaaSMedicSvc.dll" that's in the %WinDir%\System32 folder or possibly replacing it with another file and setting its permissions to "read only".

                                                                           

                                                                          People should be aware that the reason why Microsoft tries to prevent Windows Update from being disabled is not due to security of your PC, or making things easier for Microsoft's support efforts, but is to provide Microsoft as many opportunities as possible to reset your Windows and default programs settings, as well as your data-harvesting settings, all back to the Microsoft defaults where Microsoft is able to harvest as much personal and personally-identifiable data about you as possible.

                                                                           

                                                                          And at the "Basic" setting, which is the most minimal data-harvesting setting in Windows 10 Home and Pro versions, Microsoft is continuously harvesting your personal and personally-identifiable data from over 3,500 individual data points. Altogether, that data forms a meticulous and comprehensive picture of all your activities in your Windows OS.

                                                                           

                                                                          Be aware that Microsoft's own documentation on the data they collect appears to be incomplete, as one of the few data containers listed Microsoft's own Windows 10 data collection-monitoring tool that I searched up in Microsoft's documentation wasn't listed there. So, Microsoft is likely harvesting a lot more personal and personally-identifiable data than just what's listed in their documentation.

                                                                           

                                                                          Selling your personal and personally-identifiable data is a big part of Microsoft's business model now - despite that it is actually illegal for Microsoft to do it because Windows 10 is legally and factually a product (which you own) and not a service (which you merely access). So, Microsoft harvesting your data is analogous to a thief entering your home, taking your possessions, and selling them for profit.

                                                                           

                                                                          Another major reason why Microsoft wants to force Windows updates on people's personal Windows OSes is because the large bi-annual Windows 10 updates grant Microsoft frequent opportunity to deliberately break any 3rd-party UI customization software twice a year.

                                                                           

                                                                          Found this thread at Microsoft Forum while one User said he was able to disable Windows Update. How To Turn Off Windows Updates Permanently? - Microsoft Community .

                                                                • Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC
                                                                  kingfish

                                                                  As you all know , I hate repeating myself. But just the responses from you guys that made the leap is my point. All of you are 100 times more advanced than the average Joe...and look. Methods that the average user wouldn't have a clue about..and don't have any experience of forums or Google. They want to turn the computer on and it works. Oh well, it's keeping several of my family who work in IT with plenty of work. And it keeps me in beer.

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