7 Replies Latest reply on Jul 3, 2018 7:25 AM by wimpzilla

    Ryzen's windows 10 powerplan

    idiocracy

      So this is my first AMD build since xp1900 or whatever it was called, been an intel user until a week ago.

      From the asrock page i've installed "AMD all in 1 driver ver:17.40.2815.1010_WHQL" and updated the bios that includes "1.Update AMD PinnaclePI-AM4_1.0.0.2a"

      In the power management page you have this "AMD balanced power plan" but i noticed the cpu almost never speedsteps under 3ghz. I couldn't understand that, the cpu was using ~3% and was still running at +3.5ghz which just seems unnecessary.

      After googling it i found others experiencing the same thing. Apparently it's the setting in the AMD installed power plan. Minimum cpu state was set to 90%. So i set that to 5%, but even then the cpu almost never speedsteps under 3ghz even tho it's doing nothing but streaming some cats on youtube. Actually it rarely goes under 3.7ghz.

      So what gives. Why is the default AMD installed power plan setting for minimum cpu state 90%?

      Why isn't the cpu speedstepping when not used?

      Is that just how ryzen works. And i should just forget what i've been used too from how intel's speedstepping works?

        • Re: Ryzen's windows 10 powerplan
          wimpzilla

          Hello,

           

          Can you please give us the full rig specs?

          Please download DDU tool that is used to clean the Intel/AMD/Nvidia drivers.
          Clean the previous AMD chipset drivers then updated to the one from the AMD site version 18.10: Chipset

          Once installed set the win10 power plan to balanced or performances, download cpu-z or HWInfo to monitor clocks and t°.

           

          Ryzen is a fairly new architecture that was build from scratch compared to the previous AMD architectures.
          Hence the power plan issues, as all other issue present at launch, were slowly solved and implemented due to being new.
          But also because, as you said, everybody used Intel for dunno how many years, so developers/manufacturers had to spend some time optimize also for Ryzen.

          To be honest i thought this issue was solved by windows updates and chipset driver updates, setting the power plan to performances or balanced.
          Also note that Ryzen cpu are very core load sensitive, when leveraging the boost mechanism check carefully each core clock.
          Since it's quite normal that one or a couple of cores would run max steep on low load, but the rest of the cpu should hold fairly low clocks.
          So check carefully the whole cpu behaviour and not only a single core frequency, using HWInfo when idling without touching the mouse, when utube browsing, when gaming/working.

            • Re: Ryzen's windows 10 powerplan
              idiocracy

              I think you might be incorrect.

              Some research on the 90% power plan thing seems to have something to do with windows being too slow to adjust P-states. Sensemi apparently is a lot faster. If the value is low ie. 5% windows will try to take control of the cpu states which apparently don't work very well. So to circumvent that issue AMD adjusted the minimum state to 90% to eliminate windows messing with sensemi which apparently does a much better job of controlling P-states.

              So from what i can understand, that is why the default minimum state is 90% and not 5% as we have been used too.

              You can read more about it here.

              AMD Updates Ryzen Drivers with New Power Plan for Better Performance | Digital Trends

              AMD's Ryzen Balanced power plan for Windows promises to boost CPU performance | PCWorld

              https://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/matthew-wilson/amd-releases-tweaked-power-profile-for-ryzen-users-on-windows-10/ 

               

              From what i understand your suggestion to manually set the power plan after installing the drivers is incorrect. It should be left at the default AMD power plan which is auto selected after installing the drivers. However, if you're a desktop user you might edit the plan and change pcie power saving to off.

              p.s. I did update the drivers yesterday.

               

              But this doesn't explain why the cpu isn't speedstepping more than it is.

                • Re: Ryzen's windows 10 powerplan
                  wimpzilla

                  Hello,

                   

                  I simply advice to users that need a hand when having issues, hence what i advised you is not wrong and pretty standard, imo.
                  I would not go straight deep into details explaining and researching about, if your question is simply dealing with an issue that should had been already solved.
                  If none of Ryzen CPU as you mention, would not boost and lower clocks properly, i would have much more tech users complaining about.
                  Maybe it's the case actually and did not heard about, but aside posting 2 month old articles, i still did not understood if what i proposed to you solved your issue?

                   

                  So after had clean the previous drivers with DDU, installed the new drives without touching the power options, the cpu still refuse to boost/lower properly?
                  The result is the same if you use the balance or the performance plan?
                  Did you checked the bios cpu power setting, can you please specify the rig specs and if the cpu is overclocked?
                  Did you installed Ryzen Master?

                    • Re: Ryzen's windows 10 powerplan
                      idiocracy

                      I simply advice to users that need a hand when having issues, hence what i advised you is not wrong and pretty standard, imo.
                      I would not go straight deep into details explaining and researching about, if your question is simply dealing with an issue that should had been already solved.
                      If none of Ryzen CPU as you mention, would not boost and lower clocks properly, i would have much more tech users complaining about.
                      Maybe it's the case actually and did not heard about, but aside posting 2 month old articles, i still did not understood if what i proposed to you solved your issue?

                      I read that several times and i think i got the gist of it. I had some difficulties understanding what you were trying to say.

                      The cpu is not oc'd, the only setting changed in bios is xmp profile.

                      I think the first thing to do is clarify what behaviour one should see over the behaviour we are seeing. There is no point jumping through hoops if the behaviour we see is correct.

                      The power plan is default AMD, only thing changed is pcie power savings. I didn't DDU the drivers, i just updated them. I did that because we still don't know what the correct behaviour is, so as far as we know, the drivers are fine.

                      I don't understand why a 2 month old article would be an issue when that article provides the answer to the question, a question none of us could answer beforehand.

                       

                      Edit:

                      Howeeeeeeever.

                      The minimum cpu state in the AMD power plan is 90%. We've read that to eliminate windows the min cpu state is set to 90% so that it does not interfere with sensemi. And we've read another place that min cpu state should just be set to minimum 20% to avoid the issue. So i tested 20 to 80% and found that between 20 and 60% it speedsteps to 2195mhz, and does so more evenly over all cores. And i could immediately see that on the idle temps.

                        • Re: Ryzen's windows 10 powerplan
                          wimpzilla

                          Hello,


                          What i wrote is clearly understandable, please use a translator if you need, but it's pretty clear.
                          You are not giving any proof or example of your issue, that can be easily understood, no monitoring tool clock usage screen as i suggested!

                          As i said before i'm only here to try to help, i gave you an advice that you choose to not try, so i think i can't do much more sorry.

                          Also i try to not submerge users i help with hard technical data, hence please do not wrongly suppose what are my actual knowledge into the matter!

                           

                           

                          If you are able to determine that DDU is still unknown and you can't determine what it does.
                          It mean you have enough knowledge already to understand computer matters.
                          Hope you will solve your issue.
                          God luck and have a nice day.

                            • Re: Ryzen's windows 10 powerplan
                              idiocracy

                              wimpzilla skrev:

                               

                              What i wrote is clearly understandable, please use a translator if you need, but it's pretty clear.
                              You are not giving any prof or example of your issue, that can be easy understood, no monitoring tool usage screen as i suggested!

                              As i said before i'm only here to try to help, i gave you an advice that you choose to not try, so i think i can't do much more sorry.

                               

                               

                              If you are able to determine that DDU is still unknown and you can't determine what it does.
                              It mean you have enough knowledge already to understand computer matters.
                              Hope you will solve your issue.
                              God luck and have a nice day.

                              It's easy to tell English is not your main language. And that is totally fine because it's not mine either, but it creates situations where your grammar is off and makes some of your sentences incomprehensible. That's ok, we'll work around that.

                              I've tried luring you back from the path your on, as it's unrelated to the topic, and i failed at that, that's my mistake. To get back on track let me ask you this. Can you summarize what issue you think i'm having?

                               

                              Why am i asking?

                              I don't think you've read and understood the OP. Because i don't know what it is you're trying to solve. I never stated a problem, i stated an experience which i was unsure if was normal. If you read the OP you'll notice i ask 3 question.

                               

                              1. So what gives. Why is the default AMD installed power plan setting for minimum cpu state 90%?

                              A: Answered this my self by finding articles elsewhere. The reason being that AMD eliminates windows in interfering with sensemi by setting this high. You can set this to a lower number but it will not do anything. However, if you do set it to 60% sensemi can lower the clocks to 2195mhz over 2995mhz which lowers temps even further.

                               

                              2. Why isn't the cpu speedstepping when not used?

                              A: It is, just not in the way were used too. We've been used to cpu dropping clocks and staying there for longer periods of time. Sensemi adjust cpu freq ~3 times a sec, if the cpu is idle it'll prefer lower clocks on most of the cores. But it will not stay there as we've been used too, the slightest interference from the user will increase the clocks instantly.

                               

                              3. Is that just how ryzen works. And i should just forget what i've been used too from how intel's speedstepping works?

                              A: Yes this is considered normal behaviour.

                               

                              Did i ignore your suggestions? Yes i did.

                              Why? Because they were bad suggestions. You just started trying to solve a problem that didn't exist, because you had not determined if there was a problem to begin with.

                              That's why i asked you to clarify normal behaviour so we could determine if there even was a problem, but you completely ignored that and the questions asked in the OP and just went down your own path.

                              I'm not trying to be rude, i'm trying to help you see where things went wrong, so you can be better in the future.

                               

                              I am thankful for you effort even tho it was misplaced.

                               

                              Cheers

                              Idiocracy

                                • Re: Ryzen's windows 10 powerplan
                                  wimpzilla

                                  Hello,

                                   

                                  Or simply because i'm just smarter than you think. ^^
                                  And your way to answer by liking your own post, is good proof of that hopefully.

                                   

                                  But again, i'm happy you solved your issue, i'm also happy you left a trace here as thread, that other users could leverage your thought.

                                  The users reading this thread will be the one that will tell if it is usefully or not.
                                  Have a nice day.