24 Replies Latest reply on Oct 16, 2017 4:47 AM by narimanjason

    why dont try fix overwatch render problem \?

    narimanjason

      hi ... this is just question //// dont blame me plzzz after read it

       

      after 17.7.1 we all amd user cannot play overwatch cuz overwatch crashes with amd driver after 17.7.1 release

       

      just with 17.7.1 we can playing ... i promiss we alll send this report issue and after 3 mounth not fix .... i wanna try with enhaced sync playing overwatch or new option release by amd ....

       


      Plz Fix it  .........    Tnx

        • Re: why dont try fix overwatch render problem \?
          fizzwidget420

          I agree, since this started happening I read that Amd was working to solve this problem asap. As time rolled on multiple new drivers had came out that failed to fix this issue. If this is their show of dedication to their customers than I have obviously made a mistake giving Amd a try and will be switching back to their competitors very soon. I have never had persistent driver problem like this ever and obviously they do not want Happy customers

          1 of 4 people found this helpful
          • Re: why dont try fix overwatch render problem \?
            borealbobadilla

            Yeah, I have to agree. This a major problem. We can't play competitive on these new drivers because our game crashed ~50% of the time. This is ridiculous.

            • Re: why dont try fix overwatch render problem \?
              kingfish

              And you don't think the game developer should fix it's game? Have you read the issue reports from Nvidia? Do you have Google? Blizzard just explained why the patches and updates have been delayed...maybe you can relate:

              Blizzard’s Overwatch Community is So Toxic, It’s Slowing Patch Updates

                • Re: why dont try fix overwatch render problem \?
                  borealbobadilla

                  Why do you have to be so condescending on every thread I see? "Do you have Google?" If you've cared to Google the issue, many people are having the problem and nobody has a good fix. The only hope we have is the visibility we give the issue and if we're lucky, somebody will take notice and fix it. Maybe you're so toxic on these threads because your game works just fine and you don't care about others?

                   

                  If the problem is on Blizzard then yes, they should fix it. Given that it was only an issue after AMD Driver updates, I'm not sure who's at fault. Both companies are aware, and neither fixes the problem.

                   

                  I don't see how reports from Nvidia are relevant on an AMD thread. I don't care what their drivers are doing, I just want this problem fixed.

                   

                  Also, if anybody needs to be careful about their own toxicity, it's you and your sarcasm. Not to mention, the video from Blizzard was released AFTER this thread was posted so unless you expected them to see into the future for this video, it would have been impossible to see.

                    • Re: why dont try fix overwatch render problem \?
                      kingfish

                      It doesn't interest you that everyone is having issues with their graphics cards....Nvidia and AMD? You don't think that's relevant? The only fix will come from Blizzard...and they are aware.

                        • Re: why dont try fix overwatch render problem \?
                          narimanjason

                          omg kingfish u give me a super amazing answer ... wait now im ask u ,,, u have google ? u have pc ? u have eye? i think u just wanna say alll peaple have wrong issue and weneeed only blizzard fix it .... no bro its not correct answer .. plzzz 10 min check overwatch forume in battle net or check guru3d forume or tomshardware.com u alllllllll peaple have this issue and amd make new patch 5 time and not fix it .... they fix another little issue and ....... u surprise me for this reply .... im aagain say this < i love amd ,,,, just 2016 2017 amd have bad support user ,,,  (((i know my english is so bad sorry about this ))

                    • Re: why dont try fix overwatch render problem \?
                      spikeypup

                      Heya guys,

                       

                      TLDR: This driver issue is not isolated and is affecting many apps and people, and not just AMD, but NVidia as well, the root cause goes further than just a single game or driver update, there are other factors in play.  Not a great time for any of us, but we should try to be patient and feel confident that a fix is coming, and that all parties involved are working as hard as possible to get this fixed, trust me, they're not dreaming of having this flood of toxicity continuing to the end of time, they (all devs/mfgs) want this off their radar as much as we do.

                       

                      I know everyone is upset right now with the driver situation, I haven't been able to stream using OBS or Record with it since 17.7.1  So I have been back on 17.6.2 until then, it is super stable for me, but your mileage may vary.  I can play for hours on anything, no crashes and a very stable very high overclock on core and memory.  RX480 @ 1450Mhz with memory at 2135Mhz OC.  Has yet to crash on me since downgrading back.  I didn't take this situation lightly, I tried my best to hold on with the updates 17.7.1, 17.7.2, etc.   But the problem(s) remained, as you all have noted.  Please take note of something, this problem is BIGGER than Overwatch, also note as mentioned, that Blizzard is aware of the issue and THEY are working on it in conjunction with BOTH NVidia and AMD because their rapid patch cycle was a bit too rapid and they are unraveling trying to find back to what version of code the problem started and then what the root cause was.

                       

                      What makes it hard is 17.7.2 was a MAJOR update for us, and does have some regressions, some minor, some major; but nevertheless, they are present.  But with so much new code and changes to the driver structure, and same for NVidia as well as they introduced some major changes in the past few months, when you combine that with mid-grade to major and rapid changes in the Blizzard Overwatch code, well it's a perfect storm for all sorts of things to go wrong, they have to test against the changes that are made in drivers and changes in their code, change by change and all permutations to find the problem, it will take a long time.  It's like when you are making settings in a game for video settings, you should always change them one by one, because as you know, if you change too many at once it becomes difficult to dial in on the desired outcome as well as super difficult to remember what you changed and by how much etc.  Magnify that issue by 1K times and you see why this is taking so long.

                       

                      I mentioned that this goes farther then Overwatch.  Indeed in my testing and benchmarking it appears that way.  Many of my benches and games, even apps, are losing the Render Thread / Video Renderer constantly under the 17.7.1+ drivers, this is what happens to OBS, I can stream for some time, short however, then anytime the GPU gets really busy, boom, stream goes dead, OBS gets stuck and thinks it's still working, but when you analyze this down to the threads and memory heaps etc. you find that the worker thread attached to the render thread, is just gone, and the render thread usually gets a TDR because the expected work in the Q is missing from the process, anyway...it's complicated; however I am seeing this issue across a lot of apps, same with Forza Horizon 3, you might be experiencing the same in other games, it just doesn't have any error handler like Overwatch does to popup a note that says what happened, the apps or games will just freeze or close immediately, many times audio will continue normally while the screen is frozen or goes black, or audio begins to stutter while video is OK but soon will freeze and close.  It's all down to the same root issue, but I don't know if they've identified it yet.

                       

                      Why is this so hard right now?  Well you can thank Microsoft and the WDDM 2.0 model for Win 10.  Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of it, but many parts are just plain dumb.  But anyway, MS is changing a lot of things and just so happens a lot of stuff has changed in the display pipeline and  path within WDDM as well as PCI HAL and low-level functions/reporting as well.  So literally we have like so many core components from all these companies changing at the same time, and that's why when 17.7.2 went WHQL and was still problematic, it was because it was WHQL a day before or so when MS launched their core update cumulative package, and trust me that WHQL went worthless fast at that point.  My belief is that this problem is an issue within WDDM, Windows GDI, Windows DDI, AMD/NVidia driver changes for both Kernel and User mode, and app/game compliance with the changes.  Note that even apps like Forza(s) were quickly updated after the cumulative updates went out from MS, actually many games patched quickly, but with the root issues still not being found within the drivers or their interaction within WDDM, the apps/games should be in compliance but drivers still would be a mess, as they are now.

                       

                      So the Solution?  Downgrade, or patiently wait for the fix.  I'm not saying you should be happy with that answer, I just want to be honest and give my best opinion of the situation.  I'm waiting until they definitively say (AMD) that the Overwatch issue is fixed, because I'm 99% sure that if they fix the dead render thread issue there, it will be fixed for everything else.  Downgrading does indeed suck, especially since I find that 17.7.2+ is almost 20-25% more performant than the 17.6.2 I'm on now, and Relive is broken in this version for me, but works amazing 17.7.2+  For example in FH3 at 1440P Maxed out settings (EQ-MSAA 2X, MLF On Via Crimson) I was getting 95-110FPS, amazing!  Under 17.6.2 I get 67-80FPS.  So I feel your pain, and not being able to play competitive on Paladins and Overwatch is killing me too, but it's too dang risky when it just crashes at random times.  On the flipside I just finished over 10 hours of GTA 5 with multiple Alt-Tabs etc. and Recording in HEVC CQP 18, my recording for each 2 hour segment is about 30GB each.... had no problems.  So with this downgrade, I at least feel confident...and am eagerly awaiting the hopefully soon fix so I can upgrade all the way up and get the new features and extra performance that are waiting around the corner.

                       

                      Sorry for the long post, but I just see so much anger going on everywhere I just wanted to share and hopefully give everyone a way to think about this from another perspective.

                       

                      Spikeypup

                      4 of 4 people found this helpful
                        • Re: why dont try fix overwatch render problem \?
                          narimanjason

                          dude really ty for honnestly reply .... dude im little angry for kingfish answer .....  we all amd user and i think kingfish reply is not good answer to amd user .... im more waiting to fix toxic isssue .... anyway im sorry for bad english again and .... apologize to all read this post and not like it .

                            • Re: why dont try fix overwatch render problem \?
                              ray_m

                              This is a know issue that is listed in the release notes. There is no need to keep opening new posts or making new comments on this issue, since it will not change anything.

                              • Re: why dont try fix overwatch render problem \?
                                spikeypup

                                Narimanjason,

                                 

                                Not a problem.  Please understand that nobody is trying to make anyone feel bad or be "mean" or anything like that.  This is a user supported forum, meaning that the majority of us that are offering help and solutions are just ordinary users like yourself, and at times, it's hard for even us to stay Extra-Cool when others are really mad and then they take it out on us like we have some magic button to press, or that we even have a clue what is going on.

                                 

                                That said, you did nothing wrong, and Kingfish didn't either, he's a great guy, a lot of the really great guys and gals on here have a quick way of saying things or might seem a little harsh, but that's not their intent, you have to understand that they all go through a lot of the same questions and back and forths everyday, and they do it with no fanfare, no accolades, just silly points that we have here in the forums which remind us that there's some reason we're doing this , of course I'm kidding, the real reason we do this is because we love our user base, and we are big fans of AMD products and services, and fans of all tech quite honestly, regardless of what brand(s) you are using.

                                 

                                Of course, we can only support so much so far, I mean, someone coming in here with a GeForce Card and expecting to have their problem resolved is quite a lofty goal... BUT!  It does happen, it gets fixed with our adivce!  I think that says a lot.  In the end, we are all here for each other, that's not to say AMD isn't working hard or ignores our issues, quite the contrary, ray_m and amdmatt are both very dedicated and hard working folks who view these forums every day, like 7 days a week kind of every day.  They look for trends and issues and report on those to development and engineering for us behind the scenes, and when they need more data they are quick to ask us for the details so they can squash out the bugs.

                                 

                                In summary, this community works best, when it works as such, a community.  I know as I have stated before, that the issues sometimes we face with malfunctioning drivers or GPU's/CPU's can be so very frustrating and angering, and it's easy to get mad at the first person who answers your call, but sometimes if we all just take a step back and approach this forum and its members with patience, respect, understanding, and diligence,  more often than not, problems get solved and solved quickly.

                                 

                                Please don't feel upset with anyone that reached out to help, perhaps it wasn't what you wanted to hear or it wasn't worded like Shakespeare, but I can guarantee you that it was more than likely the best answer/substantive statement the person had to offer at the time.  A lot of it comes down to folks ensuring that they follow the posting guidelines, which are sending over various specs and versions and reports for us to look at and get an idea of what we're doing.  A reasonable person wouldn't just call the Car Dealer/Shop and say, "Hey I need a new engine" or "My engine is broken, FIX IT!"; without any specifications, model numbers, etc. and then demand an answer on the spot.  But yet surprisingly, so many AMD forum posters DO JUST THAT!  It can be frustrating, especially when that original poster starts to get angry with us, we're just trying to help, but they also have to HELP US HELP THEM, and also understand that we're all just regular people taking our time to help as well.

                                 

                                Each other; it's the best we have, and sometimes... all we've got.  Thanks again Narimanjason for your kind words, I deeply appreciate them, and I totally understand where you are coming from, but I promise you everyone had the best intentions of helping you

                                 

                                And with that, my cigar, Scotch, and foot-stool are calling me.  Cheerio!

                                 

                                Spikeypup

                                3 of 3 people found this helpful
                                  • Re: why dont try fix overwatch render problem \?
                                    narimanjason

                                    Wow ... u surprise me cheerio !!! after read ur reply i'm change any think about this web .,,, before it i'm think  People like kingfish or amd_matt have a duty to answer me. I apologize to everyone here and try to change my mind. I misunderstood here with a support forum and all the annoyances were for the same reason, while every answer is a favor . sorry for bad english i use google translate . ty again

                                      • Re: why dont try fix overwatch render problem \?
                                        spikeypup

                                        Narimanjason,

                                         

                                        No apology necessary my friend!  I am glad that you took the time to read my message, considering it was so very long and you are translating it.  We are very happy to help in any way that we can!  I am very happy that you understood my message, please do not be shy or hesitate to ask any questions, you are always welcome to ask for help, you can always message me as well with any questions, but it is always best to post because sometimes I cannot get to my messages for some time, so it is best to post publicly to let others try to help as well as to let the community be aware that an issue may be in existence.  I'm glad you feel better and seem to be in happy spirits, that is what we like to see!   Again, no reason to be sorry, it is alright.  Welcome to the community!

                                         

                                        Best regards,

                                        Spikeypup

                                  • Re: why dont try fix overwatch render problem \?
                                    spikeypup

                                    Never a problem, that's what we're here for!

                                      • Re: why dont try fix overwatch render problem \?
                                        deadshot_x

                                        Fixed it! been playing for 3 hours and no crash:

                                         

                                        What i did was just go to Device Manager by just right clicking the windows icon and selecting "Device manager" after i clicked on "Screen adapter" which displays the graphic card in my case it was an AMD R5, right click on your graphic card and select "Properties" once the properties window pops up select the "Driver" tab and click on "Update this driver" or "Update Driver" windows will download once it finishes reboot your PC with that it should be fixed.

                                         

                                        *Note maybe the AMD radeon settings will stop working however it shouldn't really affect gaming perfomance since i keep playing my games with stable FPS*

                                          • Re: why dont try fix overwatch render problem \?
                                            spikeypup

                                            That's good to hear, basically that process you did invoked Windows Update to download the latest WHQL stable drivers in the Windows Driverstore.  But I'm curious, could you either access AMD Radeon Settings or the Driver Details through Device Manager and let us know what version you are currently running, that would be very helpful!  Thanks so much, and glad to hear you are able to get things going with this new driver.  Also, if possible can you tell us what Version and OS Build (Exactly as you see them on the about page, it should be something like Version 1703, OsBuild: 15063.674) of Windows you are running and if it is Windows 10 64-bit or otherwise that you are running, this can be found by going to Settings-->>System-->About

                                             

                                            That would be So very helpful.  Thanks so much, and happy fraggin'!

                                             

                                            Spikeypup

                                              • Re: why dont try fix overwatch render problem \?
                                                deadshot_x

                                                Hello spikeypup here's the system data that you requested:

                                                • Version: 1703
                                                • Os Build: 15063.608
                                                • OS: Windows 10 x64

                                                 

                                                • Versión de software de Radeon - 17.7.2
                                                • Edición de software de Radeon - Crimson ReLive
                                                • Chipset gráfico - AMD Radeon(TM) R5 Graphics
                                                • Tamaño de memoria - 1024 MB
                                                • Tipo de memoria - DDR3
                                                • Reloj central - 800 MHz
                                                • Versión de Windows - Windows 10 (64 bit)
                                                • Memoria del sistema - 8 GB
                                                • Tipo de CPU - AMD A8-6410 APU with AMD Radeon R5 Graphics
                                                • Versión de configuración de Radeon - 2017.0720.1902.32426
                                                • Versión del paquete de controladores - 17.30.1041-170720a-316467C-CrimsonReLive
                                                • Proveedor - Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
                                                • Versión de controlador 2D - 8.1.1.1614
                                                • Direct3D® Version - 9.14.10.01292
                                                • OpenGL® Version - 6.14.10.13491
                                                • OpenCL™ Version - 22.19.662.4
                                                • Versión AMD Mantle - 9.1.10.0220
                                                • Versión de API AMD Mantle - 102400
                                                • Versión del controlador de audio de AMD - 10.0.1.1
                                                • Vulkan™ Driver Version - 1.6.0
                                                • Vulkan™ API Version - 1.0.51

                                                Current Driver:

                                                Displayed by Device Manager :15.201.1101.0

                                                Radeon setting app won't open saying that there's no AMD driver installed.

                                                  • Re: why dont try fix overwatch render problem \?
                                                    spikeypup

                                                    Thanks so much.  I'll get back to you with any thoughts soon...  sleepy.... zzz

                                                     

                                                    Spikeypup

                                                    • Re: why dont try fix overwatch render problem \?
                                                      spikeypup

                                                      Thanks for the info, sorry for the delay in response.  How have things been going?

                                                       

                                                      Spikeypup

                                                        • Re: why dont try fix overwatch render problem \?
                                                          deadshot_x

                                                          Sup lad! things have been fine but i have detected some weird Lag spikes that are caused by the driver for what it looks like, installing the 17.2.1 driver fixed that issue but i think that we can confirm that this is an Overwatch issue because plenty of other games work amazing with the 17.7.2 driver.

                                                          I'm 100% sure that this issue was caused by Blizzard and not AMD because if i'm not wrong this problem has been around since Beta alongside the "Hit reg" bug.Cheers!

                                                              El domingo, 15 de octubre de 2017 04:34:12 GMT-5, spikeypup <amd-external@jiveon.com> escribió: 

                                                           

                                                          #yiv3917229207 * #yiv3917229207 a #yiv3917229207 body {font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;}#yiv3917229207 #yiv3917229207 h1, #yiv3917229207 h2, #yiv3917229207 h3, #yiv3917229207 h4, #yiv3917229207 h5, #yiv3917229207 h6, #yiv3917229207 p, #yiv3917229207 hr {}#yiv3917229207 .yiv3917229207button td {}

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                                                          Re: why dont try fix overwatch render problem \?

                                                          in Drivers & Software 

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          Thanks for the info, sorry for the delay in response.  How have things been going?

                                                           

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          Spikeypup

                                                           

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                                                          • Re: why dont try fix overwatch render problem \?
                                                            narimanjason

                                                            yes dude .... i think this problem need fix from blizzard ..... i hope just fix this issue

                                                • Re: why dont try fix overwatch render problem \?
                                                  blk_mage_ctype

                                                  "Your Rendering Device Has Been Lost" - Overwatch Forums

                                                   

                                                  Upon seeing this thread, noting how long this issue has persisted and the wide range of hardware configurations it has been present, I can only conclude that this is in fact an Overwatch-related issue rather than something unique to AMD Drivers, which would also explain why AMD has been unsuccessful in squashing this bug despite numerous Driver Updates being released and AMD's repeated assurance that they're trying to fix the error. Perhaps it is at least partially true in the sense that AMD Driver Updates 17.7.2-17.10.1 triggered the issue, but I am positive that the issue is rooted somewhere in the game's engine, otherwise it wouldn't have repeatedly emerged across multiple hardware/software configurations as it has.