37 Replies Latest reply on Apr 9, 2018 12:43 AM by daquteness

    Help with Vega FE?

    daquteness

      Hi all,

      Just got around finally installing the beautiful Vega FE, but I hit a snag:

       

      Installed the latest Vega FE Pro Beta drivers (17.8.2 i believe) available because they seem to be a lot more stable, and there is no Gaming mode? Not that it would make a killer difference, I know, but apparently, for when needed, the newest RX drivers seem to be the best performance yield so far, and help with undervolting/overclocking!

       

      Can someone please point me in the right direction?

       

      Cheers,

      V

        • Re: Help with Vega FE?
          whiskey-foxtrot

          fsadough do you have any pointers on this?

           

          Thank you!

          • Re: Help with Vega FE?
            fsadough

            VEGA FE is not a gamer card, that's why power voltage tools are missing

              • Re: Help with Vega FE?
                daquteness

                fsadough Thank you very much for replying. I couldn't agree more, the main purpose of this card is not gaming, which is why I've bought it - I don't intend to game with it, even though the Vega FE page mentions it's usability as a gaming GPU.

                 

                Having said that, since I've posted the question, I've run a set of tests with the inaugural 17.6 drivers, and in gaming mode, while under-volted and +50% power, it adds 20% performance simply by stabilizing the clocks, not even overclocking! Can't see why that would not be made available.

                 

                However, it is supposed to work with both PRO and RX drivers - probably the main selling point and purpose of Vega FE - the latter not being included in the 17.8.2 beta drivers, which is slightly worrisome for me since it's the opposite of what has been communicated for the next iteration of FE drivers: https://pro.radeon.com/en-us/announcing-radeon-pro-software-crimson-relive-edition-vega-based-radeon-professional-graphics/

                https://pro.radeon.com/en-us/announcing-radeon-pro-software-crimson-relive-edition-vega-based-radeon-professional-graphi…

                 

                Any ETA for the next set of drivers release? FE seems to be missing a lot of support or at least information, despite being the highlight of the Vega series

                 

                Many thanks for any info you might have!

                1 of 1 people found this helpful
                  • Re: Help with Vega FE?
                    fsadough
                    • What exactly are you doing?
                    • Which application are you using?
                    • What is your OS?
                    • Re: Help with Vega FE?
                      rootax

                      I agree with that. Ok FE is not a pure gaming card, but with latest 17.8.2, gaming mode is just gone, which is wrong... I hope it will come back (with wattman) in the next non-beta driver.

                        • Re: Help with Vega FE?
                          daquteness

                          Judging from AMD press releases, it seems the new drivers will drop the

                          same time as the new WX9100 and SSG launch, which should be on the 13th (10

                          days to go, crappy part is I have a business trip to Madrid right then...).

                          My advice... don't expect much support right before a launch, not going to

                          happen... For more info though: gaming mode will be replaced by Driver

                          Options, which allows you to install a PRO driver and up to two RX drivers.

                          More info here:

                          https://pro.radeon.com/en-us/announcing-radeon-pro-software-crimson-relive-edition-vega-based-radeon-professional-graphics/

                           

                          Also, was looking into the Compubench tone-mapping tests... except Intel

                          IGPs, neither AMD nor nVidia's cards can launch those tests. At least

                          that's what's shown in the charts I found, take that with a pinch of salt.

                           

                          Cheers!

                          V.

                          2 of 2 people found this helpful
                            • Re: Help with Vega FE?
                              rootax

                              Thx for the answer. I'll wait a few days then, and I hope Driver Option will be working good, with wattman...

                              • Re: Help with Vega FE?
                                colesdav

                                Hi ...

                                 

                                 

                                Thanks for the information.

                                 

                                Regarding Compubench tone-mapping tests... except IntelIGPs, neither AMD nor nVidia's cards can launch those tests.

                                Nvidia cards cannot run those tests becayse according to Compubench they need support for OpenCL 2.0 which Nvidia still does not support.
                                AMD Cards used to be able to run the Tone Mapping Tests on older AMD Drivers. Compubench think there is a bug on the AMD side.
                                I updated the post regarding that a few days ago here:
                                Compubench 2.0 Benchmarking Local Tone Mapping 2K and 4K will not run on AMD Cards. Fix possible? 

                                 

                                I have suggested AMD work with Compubench to fix the issue and highlight the OpenCL 2.0 support point in the benchmark description.
                                Cheers.

                                • Re: Help with Vega FE?
                                  rootax

                                  BTW, It's not very clear that "driver option" are for Vega FE too if I read https://pro.radeon.com/en-us/announcing-radeon-pro-software-crimson-relive-edition-vega-based-radeon-professional-graphics/

                                   

                                  They said it's a bonus for "“Vega”-based Radeon™ Professional Graphics". If they drop support for FE, I'll be pissed...

                                    • Re: Help with Vega FE?
                                      daquteness

                                      Let me calm you down right there. If you look in the features comparison

                                      chart on the same page, in that footnote it specifically says it's

                                      compatible with Frontier Edition.

                                       

                                      If you look for drivers, the FE is in the Pro series. I understand there

                                      have been some screw-ups lately but dropping support for your latest

                                      product is, in my opinion, a bit too far from reality. Although just to

                                      amuse the mind, if that were to happen, I will turn my computer into an

                                      effigy )

                                        • Re: Help with Vega FE?
                                          rootax

                                          True, sorry I was paying enough attention. They say wattman is not compatible with Pro series, but Vega FE can have pro drivers, but is not a "pro" card, it's not in the name    So I hope we will have the best of both world, the driver option AND wattman. It was here in the first driver after all.

                                            • Re: Help with Vega FE?
                                              daquteness

                                              I know... hence the "Frontier Edition" bit, in case you missed that. It's neither one, nor the other, but it's both at the same time in a sense. Quantum Edition would have been more accurate. You won't have Wattman, pure and simple, unless you flash an RX64 to the secondary BIOS and hope it works, but then why pay the premium... makes no sense. Don't know about the WX series but the FE should really have access to WattMan... I really do strongly believe it's a mistake to take it out, I've had nothing but positive results with it in the 17.6 driver The instability is there in this version regardless of Wattman presence.

                                               

                                              AMD PLEASE don't mess this up! A lot of faith has been put into the company by purchasing unstable hardware, please make this worth it!

                                          • Re: Help with Vega FE?
                                            daquteness

                                            However, if you DO want to be angry at something, look no further than the decision to exclude WattMan from that suite for FE, WX9100 and SSG.... Why on Earth would you want to rob people of the ability to squeeze more performance out of their cards? That's a bit of a mistake as you can't stabilize the clocks, nevermind performance with stock cooler being hindered a significant amount.

                                              • Re: Help with Vega FE?
                                                rootax

                                                Yeah I agree, we need wattman on FE. It was there in the first place....

                                                  • Re: Help with Vega FE?
                                                    colesdav

                                                    Wattman was enabled in Gaming Mode but it did not work correctly I think?
                                                    There was a bug in Wattman on Vega FE (and ...Vega 56 I think)  that caused issues setting overclocks.
                                                    Is that what you mean?

                                                     

                                                    Thanks.

                                                      • Re: Help with Vega FE?
                                                        daquteness

                                                        It was a driver issue that has been fixed with RX driver 17.8.1 on-wards I believe. Nothing to do with the FE card itself, as it shares the same VRM scheme as RX series. The Beta driver is a mess, don't even try to install it. It's stable... also 5 times slower than the unstable one to begin with

                                                         

                                                        I really hope there is a good reason for taking WattMan out of the next series of drivers, and not some gimmicky marketing stunt to actually perk up the RX series. I am still bummed by that decision, we just have to wait and see I guess.

                                                         

                                                        Speaking of... has anybody played around with the dual-bios on FE?

                                                        1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                          • Re: Help with Vega FE?
                                                            colesdav

                                                            Hi,

                                                             

                                                            Thanks again for your update on the Vega FE.

                                                             

                                                            I was trying to get some comparison numbers of blenchmark test on Blender 2.78c running with AMD Crimson ReLive 17.7.2 WHQL Driver on Windows 10 64 bit yesterday.  Render-> Blenchmark button is there but for some reason Blenchmark is not running correctly. My system is i7-4790K with Dual R9 Nano's installed.


                                                            Blenchmark runs fine on i7-4770K + GTX780Ti..

                                                             

                                                            It must be something specific to that AMD Driver / Cards Combination. I have also tried disabling the secondary  R9 Nano card in Windows Driver Management and rebooting so that Crimson thinks only 1 card is installed. I am not running in Crossfire anyhow. Very odd.I guess I will reinstall it all from scratch and try again.


                                                            I have completed all of the OpenCL Luxmark Tests and Compubench runs.

                                                             

                                                            Sorry for the delay but I decided to look at testing OpenCL Performance on an Older AMD Driver which allow 3rd Party Tool HBM overclocking to improve performance.  For some reason Third Party Tool HBM Overclocking no longer works on my R9 Nanos with the latest 17.7.2. WHQL Drivers.

                                                             

                                                            I looked at lots of reviews on Vega FE and I cannot remember seeing much discussion about the Vbios switch, but it was some time ago ...

                                                             

                                                            Cheers.  

                                                              • Re: Help with Vega FE?
                                                                daquteness

                                                                This Blenchmark test is a bit flawed, whiskey-foxtrot and I took a quick peek at the source code and it's a bit messy but it can be fixed, just had better things to do than fix a plugin... You can get it to render simply by pressing F12.

                                                                 

                                                                If you really want to test something, do the standard Blender testing suite, with the Classroom, BMW scene, Cat scene and a few others to REALLY see what the GPU can do. I can point you to this guy here to see how Blender testing should be done: the best GPU for Blender? - YouTube FYI He's using a Radeon Pro Duo, which is essentially 2x WX7100 on the same card, and judging by his numbers it performs exactly like Vega FE (when it feels like working correctly.)

                                                                 

                                                                It's just a bios switch, in theory it should just be there for modders and/or a power-hungry/saving mode, however AMD have signature checking in place if I'm not mistaken. Unless issued by AMD, can't flash it, and obviously even then it's risky business... GamersNexus abused their 56, seems like a good place to learn more about it. Was just wondering if anyone tried playing around with it.

                                                                 

                                                                But honestly now, really no point in you exhaustively testing further at this point, I'm sure you have better things to do. Maybe pick this up again when the new drivers come out. If it renders faster than a 64 I don't even care if it has Wattman other than undervolting.

                                                                 

                                                                FYI: If you're based in Europe, OcUK have a lof of RX64 in stock, for as low as £470 which is not bad... actually considering returning the FE and getting two of these instead at this point...

                                                                  • Re: Help with Vega FE?
                                                                    colesdav

                                                                    Hi,

                                                                     

                                                                    I am also running other blender testcases, many of my own. I just didn't mention it. I am familiar with CG Geek - YouTube
                                                                    Thanks for the link though.

                                                                     

                                                                    RE: But honestly now, really no point in you exhaustively testing further at this point


                                                                    I am just runing the test cases on the cards I have now and I have almost completed that. That just gives me an up to date  baseline on a particular driver.
                                                                    I will not be able to get a good idea of what the Vega FE can do until the drivers and Wattman work properly. 

                                                                     

                                                                    RE: FYI: If you're based in Europe, OcUK have a lof of RX64 in stock, for as low as £470 which is not bad... actually considering returning the FE and getting two of these instead at this point...

                                                                     

                                                                    Yes I think you might well be better with two RX Vegas 64 versus 1 Vega FE, it depends what you are doing.
                                                                    I think thats it from me. I will post my numbers to another thread and forget Vega FE/ RX Vega until AMD get a few more months to work and improve the drivers.
                                                                    Cheers.

                                                                      • Re: Help with Vega FE?
                                                                        whiskey-foxtrot

                                                                        "I will post my numbers to another thread and forget Vega FE/ RX Vega until AMD get a few more months to work and improve the drivers. "

                                                                        I would definitely wait; Tomorrow it's swapping time on the work stations which cannot R/W any movie files (mpg/mp4/avi/flv etc etc none). For post-production processing work this is definitely a no go and extremely bad for business at this point. This goes for both FE's and RX'. On the work stations it's not a big deal, but in the case of "Oscar-Mike", its tasks have been reduced to web browsing and light office duties. I can't swap on the fly due to the waterloop; one of the major draw backs I guess.

                                                                      • Re: Help with Vega FE?
                                                                        whiskey-foxtrot

                                                                        I don't remember BMW taking that long! and it's the smallest of the 3 if I remember correctly.

                                                                        BMW.png

                                                      • Re: Help with Vega FE?
                                                        sand_martian

                                                        I have not read this whole thread... But wanted to say THANK YOU!!! I bought the Vega FE because I didnt want to skrimp on a gpu, being that I build this machine to do work.  I do visual effects and motiojn graphics... I went with threadripper 1950x and the Vega FE 16GB!  I thought this would help me render... cores for standard renders... and all the promises of PRO RENDER for C4D R19  (yes. i am in debt).  So far... every time I try prorender with R19,  the temp kicks up.. and heads towards meltdown temps... and I shut it down.    Now.. with the new, open sourced drivers (Im confused at this point 17.q.whatever)  I have this thing where the clock speed goes to 30mhz...    wtf.  that cant be right. 

                                                         

                                                        Any how.. I will continue reading the thread and just wanted to say, you aren't alone in feeling that for 1000$~   this card is both impressive and disappointing.

                                                         

                                                        Kind regards and Happy rendering,

                                                        Evolve VFX

                                                        Daryl San Martin

                                                        1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                          • Re: Help with Vega FE?
                                                            daquteness

                                                            I should probably add a bit of information, considering you've replied to a months-old thread.

                                                             

                                                            In the mean time I ended up having both an aircooled and a liquid cooled FE. Having said that, 4 months into the aquisitions, I've encountered a ridiculous amount of problems caused 100% by inadequate driver support (this is really no secret, pretty much everywhere you look, be it youtube or forums, there are throngs of disgruntled FE owners)

                                                             

                                                            Having said that, if you look at the FE from a different perspective - i.e. simply that of a compute power card and nothing else - you're the proud owner of an embarrasingly powerful GPU! Especially with the latest Adrenaline drivers, you will get average render times 10% faster than with 1080Ti (I own an FTW3 as well and can back up my claim) for roughly the same price and probably on-par with Titan Xp (don't own one, just guesstimating), with 40% more memory available. My recommendation is you look into RHEL or Ubuntu drivers, which seem to offer a slightly better performance, not worlds better, but enough to help a project's timeline, and if possible have a WX5100/7100 card as display driver. If you can sort cooling out on the FE, like adding an Alphacool GPU AIO, I guarantee you'll see a significant increase in performance because it shouldn't throttle at all.

                                                             

                                                            If you need any further help or info, just let me know here, or you can find me on AMDRT Discord server pretty much daily.

                                                             

                                                            Cheers!

                                                            V.

                                                              • Re: Help with Vega FE?
                                                                sand_martian

                                                                V,

                                                                 

                                                                Thanks for the latest info.  I will definitely check out those drivers you

                                                                mentioned.  I do have a couple questions for you though.  Whenever I stream

                                                                a video from youtube, for example,  the clock speed drop to below 100MHZ.

                                                                What do you use to "bench" your FE card?  Have you heard of undervolting

                                                                the thing?  I get pretty good results, compared to my 5 year old card.  I

                                                                just know I'm not getting the full use from this card.  I mainly decided on

                                                                Vega FE

                                                                for the 16GB of memory (which I have no way of telling how much is being

                                                                utilized), and because I wanted to take advantage of PRORENDER that came

                                                                with Cinema 4D R19.

                                                                 

                                                                I mainly use After Effects, C4D, and all the other Adode CC products.  I

                                                                also have recently been messing around with OBS, which has been working

                                                                fine so far.

                                                                 

                                                                Oh yeah.. I tried to search AMDRT on discord but it said it need the 4

                                                                digit suffix.   Anyhow,  I am glad to finally be talking with people of my

                                                                tribe .

                                                                 

                                                                Thanks again for the knowledge..

                                                                 

                                                                All the best,

                                                                Daryl:

                                                                  • Re: Help with Vega FE?
                                                                    daquteness

                                                                    https://discord.gg/qb7mHwV - You can find tonnes more support there as well, it's where I dwell

                                                                     

                                                                    https://discord.gg/MXdq2T8  - this is the AMD ProRender discord, you can find me there as well!

                                                                     

                                                                    Benching is mostly via Blender and other render engines, also less accurate but still relevant is 4K video editing in DaVinci Resolve 14 (which unlike Adobe's software it actually uses GPU to the max extent, and it LOVES Vega), as well as some synthetics like SpecViewPerf. You can also benchmark AI training if you want to get really fancy, with DeepBench and others but they get complicated FAST.

                                                                     

                                                                    As for memory usage: HWInfo64 would be your best bet, it has an "Allocated Memory Usage" for GPU if I remember correctly.

                                                                     

                                                                    I've under/over clocked/volted to test the wits of this card... it can get extremely fast and I cannot help but recommend getting proper cooling once you can afford it, your clocks will increase quite a lot compared to standard cooling (also depending on Silicon lottery unfortunately). I've pitted it against one of the top-tier 1080Ti (EVGA FTW3) and it almost consistently comes on top in pro apps and compute power.

                                                                     

                                                                    Any further info you need, you'll find us (more of the community) on Discord.

                                                                     

                                                                    Cheers!

                                                                    V.

                                                                     

                                                                      • Re: Help with Vega FE?
                                                                        pvdbg

                                                                        Hello,

                                                                         

                                                                        Well I might be able to get my hands on a Vega FE and I use Blender as well. I do archviz so the 16GB VRAM is what I am after. The wx9100 sounds like its almost the same card (better binned) but much more expensive and also hard to find.

                                                                         

                                                                        Anyways I was curious if your experiences have changed in the last couple months? Also if ProRender is optimized for Pro drivers which would give an advantage to the FE? I could buy a 64 which in the blender benchmarks is slightly faster than the FE. But I am curious if there are other advantages to the FE over the 64s.

                                                                         

                                                                        Also I am not very experienced in hardware so the water cooling makes me a bit nervous. Are the AIO systems less likely to leak?

                                                                         

                                                                        Thanks

                                                                        1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                                          • Re: Help with Vega FE?
                                                                            daquteness

                                                                            Hi there, sorry for taking such a ridiculous amount of time to reply but I hadn't received a notification and I honestly been so busy that I forgot to check out the forum lately!

                                                                             

                                                                            My experience with the FE has improved immensely since 18.1.1 drivers. It is NOT the same card as WX9100 as there are some hardware changes that support WX-specific features, however it's not a chip binning matter. Actually, you might find the WX9100 is slower that the FE, as it tops out at 1500MHz.

                                                                             

                                                                            If you work in the visual arts industry, you'll make better use of the FE rather than RX64, mainly due to the 16GB onboard memory. HBCC works, but sometimes it will crash Blender if it's above card capacity.

                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                            I have an Air-cooled FE, as well as a Liquid Cooled FE, and have been using an AIO since day one of this system, which is now almost 8 months old, no problems at all. That's not to say there is no risk, just that it's been fine for me, as well as many other people out there. I use a Corsair H115i just FYI.

                                                                             

                                                                            Anyway, if you need further information on this, please let me know, I think I've fixed the notification settings now.

                                                                            1 of 1 people found this helpful