11 Replies Latest reply on Jul 14, 2017 9:24 PM by rebelyell

    I read a lot about Servers and Gaming...But, I want to build a Workstation!

    wkcook

      I have been eyeing some Dell refurbished systems with dual 10 or 12 core Xeons and 128+ Gb ECC RAM.

      But so much has changed now that AMD is back in the game and in a big way!

      I have read a number of posts here and elsewhere that say all of the Ryzen family will support ECC RAM.

      In the past the Opteron processors were used in high end workstations.

      I have been searching and waiting but have found nothing on this topic.

       

      • Which of the new AMD line will be used for this role?
      • Is anyone making workstation motherboards yet?

      Thanks,

      WKCook

        • Re: I read a lot about Servers and Gaming...But, I want to build a Workstation!
          black_zion

          For workstation use your best choice would be the Ryzen PRO series, which are Ryzen processors with additional professional features, and additional benefits, and systems will be available from Dell, HP, and the other typical OEMs.

           

          AMD Ryzen™ PRO | AMD

          1 of 1 people found this helpful
          • Re: I read a lot about Servers and Gaming...But, I want to build a Workstation!

            Workstation is a professional and advanced computer for specific purpose usage, different from Servers, it is designed for a specific application rather than serving for other clients, such as Graphics Workstations, Scientific Workstations, Game Workstations and so forth. Workstation computers are different from personal computers from many aspects besides comparably higher performance, stability and consolidate are the prominent features of both workstations and servers. The processors selected for workstations could be the most powerful, mid-range or low budge ones. Intel XEON and AMD Opteron are processors designed for both servers and workstations. The newly coming AMD Ryzen is also designed for workstations and servers too. Some people also customise their workstations based on Intel Core i7 or Itanium processors. Itanium is a powerful and revolutionary processors designed for scientific computing purposes, if you are someone interested in it, Itanium might be your best choice. AMD Ryzen is another x86 clone processors, or x64 (64-bit extending) processors. Just because it is nearly released, so the support for it might be not that perfect, and if you could wait one or two years, I believe the prices would low down to the acceptable. I have also found some workstations equipped with Intel Celeron processors, and the performance is also moderate, but with much budget prices.

             

            As to the vendors of workstation motherboards, Micro Star and Tyan are quite famous, they both have a long history for such products.

            1 of 2 people found this helpful
              • Re: I read a lot about Servers and Gaming...But, I want to build a Workstation!
                wkcook

                My needs are specific...Fractal Art.  The newest programs for Fractals are multithreaded and very processor intensive.  Once you find an area in a Fractal you wish to work with and completed the design, then you have to render it at a much larger scale, some even in the 4k range.  A smaller image, 6,400x10,000, can take days to render as each pixel can require tens of millions calculations.  And, if you are in a deep zoom, then double-precision is required.  I know users that have spent weeks getting a single image and as long as a month I generating a video/zoom sequence.

                 

                One of the systems I was eyeing from Dell was a Dual Xeon E5-2699 ve (18c w/45M Cache), 128 GB DDR4 ECC 2400, and nVidia Quadro M4000 8GB.  All for $8,109.  Though would want to eventually get additional GPU power as many applications are now being written to off-load much of the math to the graphics cards.  But this is all older (not ancient) tech and I really like what I am reading about the current products from AMD.  And with the difference in price I might be able to build and/or buy and AMD system that will blow this Dell system away for my purposes.

                 

                So, I am not certain the systems you describe will handle my needs.  I suppose I need to wait a bit to see what motherboards manufacturers offer in this area.  Probably the suggestion made by @black_zion makes the most sense...We will see.

                 

                Thanks for the feedback!

                WKCook

                  • Re: I read a lot about Servers and Gaming...But, I want to build a Workstation!
                    rebelyell

                    wow yes , i know what your saying now. fractal art is very complex i love it...  well threadripper comes in august. definitely worth the wait.

                    1 of 1 people found this helpful
                    • Re: I read a lot about Servers and Gaming...But, I want to build a Workstation!

                      If I say Intel is better than AMD, oh, I might possibly be kicked out of this forum. I believe AMD Ryzen is a powerful, elegant and smart product, but it is newly coming, in other words, if you want to invest too much on something, I would suggest you make some evaluations before purchasing. After days I spent time on revisiting the old those things, when Intel NetBurst was popular, I evaluated some Pentium 4, Pentium D, NetBrust based XEON processors and AMD Athlon64 and Opteron products, I found NetBurst is not that worse, and Athlon 64 or Opteron is not that strong as their PR rating. But they are the old those days, and it could say few things about today. In this situation I would love to give you some irresponsible suggestions when choosing new workstation:

                       

                      1. How many years would you want to use your new workstation? If for only a few years, and can't wait to updating, I think you could choose the Ryzen based machine. Because it is newly coming, so in other words, it needs many revisions to enter into its mature phase. If you want to use it for adequate years, I suggest you to choose that Dell one you mentioned.

                       

                      2. Focus on the GPGPU, or focus on the power of processor cores? After around twenty years comparing platforms from Intel and AMD, I found the Intel platform perform quite mature and stable. I also heard that Ryzen processor is optimised for not only AMD GPGPU but also NVidia products, but I also embrace another question that optimisation might not be equivalent to the mature support.

                       

                      3. What you do you love, Intel or AMD? Love is without selfish, or in other words, you could endure those imperfect parts of the things you spend money on. So no matter how the things other promoted to you, be true and stick to your own faith could bring you the best and reasonable choice...

                       

                      Good luck...

                      1 of 1 people found this helpful
                  • Re: I read a lot about Servers and Gaming...But, I want to build a Workstation!
                    rebelyell

                    well let me tell you a few things about ryzen and how to get the performance this is the tricky part. now since threadripper is 2 ryzen cpu's im thinking they will be the same when it comes to the ram. this will need to be verified once released. but should be same. so lets compare ryzen to the ripper. ryzen gets its performance huge gains from fast ram due too its L3 cache relation with the speeds of ram. as things are and have been the fastest and very stable ram is the G.skill Flare-x 3200mhz sticks but, per g.skill change timings too 16 16 16 18 38  and it runs 3466mhz its same stick. now here is what i have any many have done keep those timings and just bump voltage a little and plugg 3600mhz in and boom runs lower latency and speeds of reads wrights around 53,000 latency 67 . now hopefully these will perform roughly the same on thread ripper and should. there just isnt any better ram out there yet that is faster and stable. so try to forget how intel works with ram. ryzen needs the speed and acts like a pyramid effect once you hit 3200mhz it really starts to excel in performance. just thought i would let you know.

                      • Re: I read a lot about Servers and Gaming...But, I want to build a Workstation!
                        wkcook

                        Thanks!  I had read some hints of this but you explained it much better.

                        But I am concerned with "Up-Time" since may have to keep the system on for days or weeks.

                        I believe 2400mhz is about the fastest ECC available at the moment.  How much is this going to affect my performance?

                         

                        Also, black_zion seemed to think the Ryzen Pro would be the way to go.  What are your thoughts on the Pro?

                         

                         

                        Thanks Again!

                         

                        WKCook

                          • Re: I read a lot about Servers and Gaming...But, I want to build a Workstation!
                            rebelyell

                            ryzen supports ecc but, as of right now and this could very well change on the new boards. the pc boards dont like ecc but asus has a scrub timer to set . problem is the boards for home use dont like ecc but they do run slower ram like your saying. right now we run rank 1 sticks.. i am pretty sure this will all change with the new server boards though...this is where we get into uncharted territory. we will have to keep up on things as they drop. i cant see thread ripper not having the correct boards i am sure they will be ready this time... last time with ryzen release board manufacturers didnt have time to prepare for all of this. but amd made sure the board companies have all info and everything to be ready this time. they wont make that mistake again..

                              • Re: I read a lot about Servers and Gaming...But, I want to build a Workstation!
                                wkcook

                                Yes, I agree.  I was read today on one site where they were praising AMD for all of updates they provided in such a short time.  But if they had worked with the motherboard manufacturers and others a little sooner, things might have gone much smoother.

                                 

                                The only excuse they might have is the possibility of leaks.  Seems like no one can keep a secret these days!  And for AMD to REALLY get back in the CPU market they could not afford a leak of any kind.

                                  • Re: I read a lot about Servers and Gaming...But, I want to build a Workstation!
                                    rebelyell

                                    thats correct on both... thats why they only gave the microcode 2 weeks before release. also its been so long since amd really had any big new or anything this huge of a deal in so long if ever they kinda forgot how to get this all new tech out on the marketing side. but its all good now.. everything going as planned now and intel got the shock treatment lol . i bet they were like wahhhhh dah omg.

                                    • Re: I read a lot about Servers and Gaming...But, I want to build a Workstation!

                                      Intel is a smarter guy, they seem always have their secret weapons prepared all the time along with their opponents, such as the days when Cyrix, NexGEN, AMD and so many other companies designed more advanced processors than Pentium, they brought out the Pentium Pro to give them a beat but not that heavy, later they brought more things, especially Celeron and Xeon to give them an even stronger beat. Celeron defeated all future Cyrix products! AMD was struggling around it with their K6 series processors with difficulties, which further lead them to design their own FSB and new processor, Athlon. When AMD designed their prominent AMD64 processors, and spent lots onto the market, Intel smartly bring out several Celeron processors with EM64T enabled. In Intel advertisement, EM64T was never emphasised, so many users of such processors, even the day they throw their old machines as waste, they do not even aware of their processors is 64-bit computing capable. Very few years later, they brought out their new products based on Core Microarchitecture, easily defeat the AMD64 processors.

                                       

                                      What about Ryzen? And why Intel can't wait to announcing that the final Itanium releasing? They use their old technologies to compete with AMD's new fortune, in this situation they put a stop to their once revolutionary real 64-bit products. It sounds ridiculous, and seems tell the people all over the world, they have already reach to their end. But please do not forget, they just make good use of AMD to promote their x86 architecture, when they have already some new weapons in the future could take place of both Core Microarchitecture based processors and Itanium. The importance of AMD Ryzen might not put any effective to that secret weapon! But how long need to wait for that secret weapon? Two, three or even more years! But people do not have too much time to waste.

                                       

                                      I love AMD processors! But I would love to suggest you make adequate evaluations about the Ryzen Pro processors, do those processors and their platform satisfy your needs? Will you upgrade your processors during the life span of your workstation? If so, you must make sure whether the next generation of Ryzen Pro processors could plug onto your invested mobo easily and without problem. In other words, you should evaluate the socket AM4 and LGA2011-3, which is perfect for your needs. Is extensible of dual processor configuration better? Or simply replace the invested processor is quite smart? In this moment, AM4 lacks support of multi processor configuration, but it provides you the best TDP and multi-core configuration.

                                       

                                      You should also contact to the vendor of your software, ask them information on the support of Ryzen processors. This is important thing for a user of a workstation than of a customised desktop computer. No matter how strong the underlying processor is, if the software invested could not fully utilise it, your investment is not that smart enough.