9 Replies Latest reply on Jun 29, 2017 3:26 AM by colesdav

    Issue with installing AMD Crimson Drivers on laptop with internal  Non-GCN discrete GPU and external GCN eGPU.

    colesdav

      Hi,

       

      I have been experimenting with setting up an eGPU using an EXP GDC Beast Version 8.0 with a Sapphire R9 280x OC 3GB Vapor-X Tri-X. on a heavily modded HP Envy 1060ea laptop which originally had an ATI Mobility Radeon 4830 DX10 GPU and an i7-720QM processor. The laptop was originally purchased at the start of  2010.

       

      I have upgraded the laptop over the years. The motherboard CPU Socket died > 1 year ago and I replaced it with an HP Envy 1110ea motherboard which contains an ATI Mobility Radeon HD5830 (nonGCN) discrete GPU supporting DX11. It also adds USB 3.0. ports which are needed to use an external Video capture card.
      The modded laptop specs are still pretty good now, even though it was purchased back in 2010 it now has the new 1110ea motherboard with the HD5830 (nonGCN) discrete GPU.I also upgraded it with a Full HD 1080p Display, Dual Samsung 1TB Msata SSD's, and an an i7-920XM Extreme Edition Processor.  I have been using it as a "mobile" Video Capture station with Avermedia LGX capture card, and it is just about good enough but I needed more GPU power for Video Capture and OpenCL work.

       

      I have been able to get the HP Envy 15 to work with an EXP GDC Beast Version 8.0 by removing the wireless card in the HP Envy 15 and connecting the EXP GDC Beast adapter to the mini PCIe x1 slot previously used for the wireless card on the HP Envy 15. I am currently running the HP Envy 15 with only 2GB of RAM for eGPU initial Testing purposes.

       

      I had to revert to using AMD Catalyst Control Center Drivers Version 15.11.1 Beta Drivers because the latest Versions of AMD Crimson ReLive does not install correctly on a system with GCN and Non GCN GPUs!

      I was previously running AMD Radeon Software Crimson Edition 16.1 for Non GCN Products Release Notes on the HP Envy 15 integrated ATI Mobility Radeon HD5830.


      I temporarily removed the R9 280x OC 3GB Vapor-X Tri-X where it was the secondary GPU in a system with an Nvidia 780Ti GPU as Primary GPU.
      The R9 280x was running well with AMD Crimson Drivers WHQL version 17.4.4. I was using it to run an additional display and for OpenCL and Video Capture work.

       

      So this situation of having to revert back to old AMD Catalyst Control Center 15.11.1 Beta Drivers is not good.

       

      I have an AMD (ATI Mobility Radeon Laptop) which was running great on AMD Crimson Legacy Drivers and an AMD GPU which was running great on the latest WHQL 17.4.4 drivers.
      However, if I want to use an EGPU solution which works with the very latest gaming drivers, including DX12 and Vulkan Support Improvements ... I will have to look for an Nvidia Card to run on my eGPU at present.

       

      Why am I unable to install the legacy Crimson Driver for the HD5830 and the latest WHQL driver for the R9 280x?
      Why do I have to resort to running AMD Catalyst Control Center Drivers Version 15.11.1 Beta Drivers?
      Has anyone thought about this issue?

       

      FYI as an initial Performance Tests I looked at Crysis 2 Gaming Performance on Ultra with Ultra Textures set on the modded Laptop using the ATI Mobility Radeon HD5830 versus the EXP GDC Beast 8.0 and R9 280x at 1080p Resolution.

       

      Here is the FPS range I see:

       

      ATI Mobility Radeon HD5830        =        1-10 FPS.   = Unplayable.

      EXP GDC Beast 8.0 and R9 280x =        30-60 FPS. = Playable for sure. the 30FPS is at the start of the game when initial textures are loading. Mostly it runs around 50-60FPS.

       

      Is there any chance that something could be changed in the installer to allow installation of GCN and Non GCN Crimson Drivers for laptop with Non GCN Discrete GPU?
      Is there some workaround available?

       

       

      Thanks.

        • Re: Issue with installing AMD Crimson Drivers on laptop with internal  Non-GCN discrete GPU and external GCN eGPU.
          ray_m

          This is expected behaviour.

           

          When installing graphics drivers, both devices must use the same driver version.

          2 of 2 people found this helpful
            • Re: Issue with installing AMD Crimson Drivers on laptop with internal  Non-GCN discrete GPU and external GCN eGPU.
              colesdav

              Hi Ray_m, thanks very much for your prompt response.

               

              So it is the expected behaviour, I understand, that's why I went back and installed the Catalyst Drivers because I looked for a driver that supported the ATI Mobility 5830 and the R9 280x.

               

              But it doesn't mean the current expected behaviour is a good solution for an eGPU setup.

              This behaviour is effectively forcing laptop owner with old AMD GPU to purchase or install an Nvidia Card with their eGPU solution is it not?

               

              It seems a real pity that this eGPU situation is not supported, it must be a typical case in eGPU setup that the Laptop GPU is old and the card to be installed will be new or different architecture. In a Laptop you cannot simply remove the Discrete GPU and replace it with a newer model at present, unlike in a desktop.
              You can however disable the Laptop Discrete GPU via Windows Device Manager. You still get basic video output to the laptop screen.

               

              I don't even need to have both the laptop HD5830 and R9280x devices / Crimson  drivers enabled at the same time.
              It would be good if I could run two separate versions of AMD Crimson Driver depending on which device was enabled in Windows via Device Manager.

              I would have been happy to have the ATI Mobility HD5830 disabled completely and just install the latest version of Crimson WHQL 17.4.4 on the R9 280x.

              Is there absolutely no way that this can be done?

              Is there any way to "hide" the ATI Mobility 5830 from the AMD Crimson 17.4.4. installer so that AMD Crimson Driver only gets installed on the R9 280x?

               

              Perhaps the AMD Drivers Team might want to think of this in future and perhaps allow some form of legacy laptop GPU support like this ?
              OK so you may say that the EXP GDC Beast 8.0  using a PCIe wireless port is a bad solution but I am guessing if my laptop had a non GCN internal discrete GPU and a thunderbolt 3 eGPU connected to an R9 280x the situation would still be the same. No up to date AMD Crimson Driver could be installed.

               

              If I have an Nvidia card installed instead of the R9 280x then I will be running  AMD Crimson and Nvidia GeForce drivers on the same machine. I already know this works on my desktop. I was running GTX780Ti with R9 280X on desktop with no problems.  

               

              So I guess for my case I will go back and install the latest AMD Crimson Driver (legacy driver) for the internal discrete ATI Mobility HD 5830 and install or purchase a new Nvidia card for use with the GDC Beast  eGPU.

               

              I will try an Nvidia  GTX780Ti or a GTX1060 in the Exp GDC Beast and check if I can to install and run the very latest Nvidia Drivers and GeForce Experience Software. At least that way my external GPU will be able to run with the latest available drivers.

               

              I guess I will  just close this thread then? Or do you think I should report the issue in an AMD Reporting form?


              Thanks again.

                • Re: Issue with installing AMD Crimson Drivers on laptop with internal  Non-GCN discrete GPU and external GCN eGPU.
                  kingfish

                  No need reporting anything. That's the way things are...you are not the only one that asks these kind of questions.

                  I don't think any of the newer graphics drivers are going to help your graphics anyhow.

                  Well...we'll miss your questions here on the forum...but, good luck on the Nvidia forum.

                    • Re: Issue with installing AMD Crimson Drivers on laptop with internal  Non-GCN discrete GPU and external GCN eGPU.
                      colesdav

                      Hi,

                       

                      There are new driver support features that would help running games and some new features like Radeon Chill for example that would help with the R9 280x on the eGPU or indeed an R9 Nano or any other AMD gpu I could add as an external GPU. I was thinking of an RX580 purchase.

                       

                      There were some additional features in the  ATI Mobility Radeon Crimson Legacy Drivers for the ATI Mobility Radeon 5830 but I think they were mostly User Interface differences ... i.e. the Crimson GUI and interface. I don't really care about the ATI Mobility 5830 though ... that's the point of running with the eGPU.

                       

                      I have not seen many posts at all about eGPU in this forum.

                      I wasn't "threatening to go completely Nvidia".

                       

                      I want to use an AMD Card with an eGPU with the latest AMD Drivers, and the way the AMD Crimson Installation / drivers work at the moment makes this impossible, with this laptop at least.

                       

                      Thunderbolt 3 and future developments in USB connectivity to eGPU will make eGPU more prevalent in the future I think.

                       

                      Anyhow I will try out a couple of Nvidia Cards here and if I do hit problems with them I will report that to the Nvidia Forum and also update this thread.

                       

                      Thanks.

                        • Re: Issue with installing AMD Crimson Drivers on laptop with internal  Non-GCN discrete GPU and external GCN eGPU.
                          kingfish

                          There have been a few:

                          Thunderbolt Goes Royalty-Free as Intel Repositions It to Boost Adoption...a boost for XConnect?

                          HP Omen Accelerator Adds External GPU, SSD, and More for Laptop Gaming

                          Apple’s Metal 2 API Adds External GPU, VR Support to macOS...AMD RX 580

                           

                          None of this matters if you have a old laptop without a Thunderbolt connection though. Updating the laptop supplied graphics has nothing to do with updating the external graphics solution. The whole idea is to prolong the useful life of a laptop in a gaming or graphics intensive applications. You can replace the external card with the only limiting factor being the processor (CPU).....not what the internal laptop graphics are.

                          1 of 1 people found this helpful
                            • Re: Issue with installing AMD Crimson Drivers on laptop with internal  Non-GCN discrete GPU and external GCN eGPU.
                              colesdav

                              Thanks,

                               

                              I had looked through the AMD Community Forum and I have been keeping an eye out for this technology for a long time now. 
                              I think this is a good article:

                               

                              RE: Updating the laptop supplied graphics has nothing to do with updating the external graphics solution.


                              That is an interesting statement, and leads to more questions for me.

                               

                              It might not matter because any laptop out there at present  with a thunderbolt 3.0 port will have an Intel Chipset and processor and
                              either an Intel Integrated GPU or an Nvidia Mobile GPU.

                               

                              I am not being nasty about this but  I think Nvidia Mobile GPU's have been dominating in the high end gaming laptop (with thunderbolt 1/2/3) space for years now. Last high end AMD mobile GPU I heard of was R9 M390X which was around GTX970M performance and implemented in an AlienWare 17 inch gaming laptop. AlienWare have their own "external graphics amplifier" solution.


                              If it does have an AMD discrete Mobile GPU then it is likely that that AMD Discrete Mobile GPU will be new and will be supported on the same list as the new supported external AMD GPU.

                              I think the basic principle of using Thunderbolt/Thunderbolt2/Thunderbolt3is exactly the same as using an EXP GDC Beast 8.0.

                              All of these solutions provide a new PCIe 2.0 connection with a Graphics Card which is presented to the PC/Laptop OS as a normal "intenal" PCie device connection. Thunderbolt1/2 provides four-lane PCIe 2.0 bus. Thunderbolt 3 provides four-lane Pcie 3.0 bus which is faster.

                              In my case EXP GDC Beast 8.0 provides a 1-lane PCIe 2.0 bus, a slower solution.

                               

                              In the case of the Thunderbolt solutions, the external PCIe Card has to be "thunderbolt compliant" which means it has to have the capability to send
                              device id information in a format required by thunderbolt specification.

                               

                              AMD Xconnect requires an "Xconnect Driver", Windows 10, and a Thunderbolt 3 connection.

                               

                              Have you (or anyone on the forum) tried AMD Xconnect with Thunderbolt3 and installed the driver?

                              Does the AMD Xconnect Driver somehow ignore the internal laptop GPU completely (or any GPU not connected by thunderbolt 3.0 )
                              and not install new drivers on it (or them) as well?

                               

                              Does the AMD Xconnect Driver installer have exactly the driver installation functionality I need and behaves differently to AMD Crimson 17.4.4 Driver?

                               

                              If I click on the latest "AMD Xconnect Driver" links on AMD Page  it points to  AMD Crimson 17.4.4 Windows 10 driver or 17.6.2 Windows 10 driver.

                               

                              So perhaps if a Thunderbolt 3.0 connection is detected, the installer behaves differently and ignores and disables the GPU on the Laptop?

                               

                              If that is the case then the "basic functionality" I need when using the EXP GDC Beast 8.0 is there already in the driver, namely "identify an external GPU and only install drivers on it".

                               

                              Thanks again.

                      • Re: Issue with installing AMD Crimson Drivers on laptop with internal  Non-GCN discrete GPU and external GCN eGPU.
                        colesdav

                        Proposed solution.

                         

                        When you install Crimson Drivers 17.4.4  the Installer should detect which GPUs are on the PC/Laptop system and should ask the user which devices should have drivers installed.

                         

                        Unselected deviced should have no AMD driver installed.

                         

                        In my HP Envy 15 + egpu with r9280x situation as decribed above then ...

                         

                        If ATI mobility Radeon 5830 is not selected but R9 280x is selected then the installtion of the 17.4.4 driver should proceed and the ATI Mobility Radeon 5830 should be skipped in the driver installation.

                         

                        The user could then simply disable the 5830 in Windows Device Manager.

                         

                        If the (5830 and R9 280x) or  the 5830 is selected then the driver installation should issue a warning to say the non-GCN 5830 is not supported in the GCN 17.4.4 driver, and the installation should halt.

                         

                        Thanks.

                      • Re: Issue with installing AMD Crimson Drivers on laptop with internal  Non-GCN discrete GPU and external GCN eGPU.
                        colesdav

                        I submitted an AMD Report Issue form and pointed to this thread.