15 Replies Latest reply on Jun 26, 2017 9:53 AM by whiskey-foxtrot

    What PSU Do You Use With a Your System?

    ambrose

      Hello Everyone,

      Seeing how there seems to be a lot of users now with windows 10 and Some pretty nice cards, 4 and 8 GB, I have a question which comes from my home theater use.

      Do the people that use these 4 and 8 GB cards have a better then average PSU to run their card(s), Monitors, Free Sync, VSR, and VR, etc.? Not to mention different cooling options for the CPU and GPU as well. And do these same people/users Run their system with a Power conditioner in their setup. It would seem to me like a good thing to do, seeing that most household power doesn't come into the house as steady and clean as they might think, there are other things in your residence that uses power, and at the same time your computing as well.

       

      I would think in these setups, your average PSU is just not going to serve the purpose nor just plugging into your wall as you would an average computer these days. And we all know computers are not as average now as they once were.

       

      Cheers Ambrose.

       

      Message was edited by: Matt B We have updated the title of this discussion with relevant details to better describe your issue.

        • Re: What PSU Do You Use With a Your System?
          black_zion

          As far as my computer goes, I use a SeaSonic X750, and on both my computer as well as my entertainment setup I use CyberPower CP1350PFCLCD R UPSs. At the time I can't afford the new SeaSonic Prime Titanium units after spending a grand on my Ryzen setup. Line Interactive UPSs (which mine are) are necessary these days to prevent momentary drops, droops, and spikes, but they also add an extra layer of protection in the event of a PSU failure. A few years back I had a supply side failure in my PSU, which caused it to attempt to draw as much power as it could. This tripped the over current protection in the UPS and prevented any damage to my components. I was able to remove the PSU and attach it to the wall on its own so it could literally blow up safely.

          • Re: What PSU Do You Use With a Your System?
            whiskey-foxtrot

            I've seen the issues over the years with brown-outs and countless of insurance claim cases come through our shops, so I installed 3-phase 30amp panel mounted SPDs (Surge Protective Devices). Every room has a dedicated circuit for PCs which are protected; if for reason a PC had to be plugged in an unprotected circuit, I use CyberPower UPCs in particular that model black_zion mentioned and this one CP1500PFCLCD  (Pure Sine Wave UPS) for a clean supply. On most of my PCs I'll run anything from 750W and up using "Platinum" or "Titanium" level PSUs just to help with efficiency and to make easier on the UPS' and SPDs.

            • Re: What PSU Do You Use With a Your System?
              rebelyell

              if it helps ive used this on many pc's for years, lightning strikes and all. it works no problem.. 

               

              APC Professional SurgeArrest, 8 outlet, 2 pairs phone line protection - APC - United States

              • Re: What PSU Do You Use With a Your System?
                rebelyell

                you should get a psu that dosent use more than 60-70% of the rated power constantly and a psu that runs two 12v rails not just 1. i use a evga supernova 1300 watt G2 . but a 850+ should be ok unless you run 2 graphic cards. i always recommend 1000 watts regardless with a good surge protector i posted above.

                • Re: What PSU Do You Use With a Your System?
                  westom

                  Be very concerned with so many replies based in virtually no electrical knowledge.

                   

                  For example, most every computer consumes less than 350 watts.  But since most computer assemblers have no idea what numbers are relevant, then we tell then to buy a 500 watt supply for a 250 watt computer.  Then help lines are not clogged teaching computer assemblers how electricity works.

                   

                  Worse recommendation is a 1300 watt supply.  That only means safety features (so that the supply does not damage other parts) is compromised.

                   

                  To make surge damage easier, then get that ineffective, high profit APC protector.  Faciltiies that cannot have damage will never use that.

                   

                  Also bogus is the power supply tester.  It can never say a PSU is good.  It does not identify the most problematic defects.  But popular among many who only recite what others have told them to believe.

                   

                  Your computer never gets so hot as to also toast bread.  Therefore a 500 watt supply is just fine for most every computer.  The informed never use watts to select a PSU.  Those more than sufficient 300 watt supplies in manufacturer provided system (designed by engineers) only view amps for each voltage.

                    • Re: What PSU Do You Use With a Your System?
                      black_zion

                      Power supplies are at their most efficient at 50% load, therefore telling users to buy a 600w power supply for a typical 300w computer is correct. Also there are numerous garbage power supply manufacturers out there which slap on a rating which is well beyond its actual capability, and casual users will not understand the need nor look for a quality made unit which provides near 100% of its rated power at +12v, they will go to Best Buy or Amazon and buy the cheapest unit they can find, which oftentimes is Huntkey, Rocketfish, or some other Chinese Firecracker, so telling them a 500w or 750w power supply is necessary. Power supplies lose ~2% of their maximum output per year due to capacitor aging, so buying a PSU at or close to the power needs will soon become insufficient. Another reason to recommend a 750w power supply is due to the cost difference between a 550w and 750w unit, which can be very little, so it makes little sense to buy a lower rated unit. For uses where a PC cannot instantaneously be shut off, those facilities use expensive, pure sine wave double conversion online UPSs.

                      1 of 1 people found this helpful
                        • Re: What PSU Do You Use With a Your System?
                          westom

                          That "supply is most efficient at 50%" is the subjective urban myth told to and therefore automatically believed by so many.  Many supplies were most efficient at 0% and 100%; were least efficient at 50%.  Others supplies have overall inefficiencies that vary according to each unique design is why datasheets provide a chart for each design.

                           

                          Meanwhile it is irrelevant.  Since a supply operating at its most efficient point can also put maximum strain on some other parts.

                           

                          Efficiency says nothing useful about a supply life expectancy since reliability varies little with efficiencies.

                           

                          Engineers who learn from facts and numbers use 250 and 350 watt supplies for most all computers. Because hearsay confuses efficiency with reliability (and other factors), then we tell uninformed consumers that a 500 watt supply is needed for a 250 watt maximum computer.  Then we need not teach computer assemblers what they should have learned in school.

                           

                          The informed never select a supply on watts or efficiency.  The informed select a supply based upon currents for each voltage.  500 and 700 watts supplies are routinely found in systems designed by people without basic electrical knowledge.  Since currents - not watts - are relevant parameters.

                           

                          BTW, that 2% degradation is another myth promoted by hearsay - not found in engineering facts.  Otherwise numbers from a datasheet for that degraded part is posted.  No datasheet will be cited.  Because so many recommend power supplies only using myth and hearsay - that claims a 500 or 700 watt supply is more reliable.  We engineers with decades of professional experience know better.

                            • Re: What PSU Do You Use With a Your System?
                              whiskey-foxtrot

                              Since a supply operating at its most efficient point can also put maximum strain on some other parts.

                               

                              I'm trying to understand this particular statement; could you give an example of this?

                               

                              The informed never select a supply on watts or efficiency. The informed select a supply based upon currents for each voltage. 500 and 700 watts supplies are routinely found in systems designed by people without basic electrical knowledge. Since currents - not watts - are relevant parameters.

                               

                              BTW, that 2% degradation is another myth promoted by hearsay - not found in engineering facts.  Otherwise numbers from a datasheet for that degraded part is posted.  No datasheet will be cited.  Because so many recommend power supplies only using myth and hearsay - that claims a 500 or 700 watt supply is more reliable.  We engineers with decades of professional experience know better.

                              I agree with this - currents (draw) versus watts. As for the degradation, voltage draw does not affect this as much as heat, volume etc over time. I "guess" manufacturers compensate for this with higher capacitance values to slow down this process. I still have 3 400 watt PSU's which have been running since 2007 which by current (marketing) standards should be obsolete, but then again these servers have minimum current draws and perhaps less degradation. The only method of testing if you want to call it that, is system stability.

                               

                              I tend to pick a PSU on the promise of a clean and steady supply to my components - most advertised PSUs tend to be in the higher range (500 watt and up). Almost no manufacturer actually lists individual components except vague terms such as "high quality Japanese components" etc. So making a purchasing decision from the average consumer stand-point is literally a no-brainer (select what the marketing materials say is good for you). And yes, I'm not afraid to admit that I have fallen for this particular advertising out of convenience (or laziness), even though I should know better.

                               

                              Up next in other news:

                               

                              First attempt at plugging in 2 TItan Xps, on i7 7700k OC'ed to 5GHz powered by a 700-watt Power supply, AND attempt to play InstaFace games!

                              1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                • Re: What PSU Do You Use With a Your System?
                                  westom

                                  Simplest power supply circuit means efficiency is least at 50% loading.  Efficiency is maximum at near 0% and near 100%.  Other schemes and circuit, using different principles, vary depending on the design.  Even these contain circuits that are least efficient at 50%.  No blanket 'it is most efficient at 50%' rule exists. 

                                   

                                  Power supply datasheets may provide a chart showing how efficiencies vary with various load.  This graph often goes up and down across the range.  Those efficiencies are mostly irrelevant.  Very little relationship exists between efficiency and reliability.

                                   

                                  Temperature is a diagnostic tool.  Heat electronics to 100 degrees F and it fails.  Then many wildly speculation that heat caused a failure.  No.  Heat is a diagnostic tool that finds a defective semiconductor or marginal design.  Use heat to find defective electronics today so that a failure does not get worse and appear years from now.

                                   

                                  Any power supply that is not working just fine more than 10 years later was defective - maybe when purchased.  A PSU that fails anytime in more than ten years was probably purchased with a manufacturing defect.  Manufacturing defects (in design or construction) are the most common reason for electronics failure.  Unfortunately many want to believe popular hearsay; then invent a mythical surge or not enough fans to blame.

                                   

                                  We all saw manufacturing defects that caused major failures years later.  Counterfeit electrolyete was a perfect example of a manufacturing defect that caused failures in PSUs and other electronics many years later.throughout the world.