6 Replies Latest reply on Sep 23, 2017 1:46 AM by jtl

    Considering getting AMD GPU. Is there a way to only use 6 bit color with minimal or no dithering. If dithering is necessary is static dithering available? Is this easily achieved through the AMD software center on Linux?

    wrightpt

      I have some eye strain going on with the Nvidia Pascal 1050. it occurs least with dithering enabled, static dithering (not temporal or dynamic), and 6 bit color. I do not use the full color spectrum only partial and that helps further. I leave the performance setting on adaptable and not high performance.

       

      Would Radeon Control panel give me more control over features such as these. Is dithering built in to the software so that I have no way to control it or alter its behavior?

       

       

      Thank you

        • Re: Considering getting AMD GPU. Is there a way to only use 6 bit color with minimal or no dithering. If dithering is necessary is static dithering available? Is this easily achieved through the AMD software center on Linux?
          angryuser1

          Correct me if I am wrong, but I always thought dithering is a screen issue and not a GPU issue? As in, GPU color bit support is usually higher than screen real hardware support, and it's the screen controller that decides which colors should become dithered in an attempt to display the color as close to the one GPU demands as possible?

           

          There's also the cable compatibility (because higher bit depth requires higher bandwidth at the same resolution) but it's backwards compatible so I leave that aside.

            • Re: Considering getting AMD GPU. Is there a way to only use 6 bit color with minimal or no dithering. If dithering is necessary is static dithering available? Is this easily achieved through the AMD software center on Linux?
              wrightpt

              good input. I was not aware of that.  the monitor model is Samsung C24FG70. its rated for 8 bit. it feels better with an hdmi cable at 60 hz vs a display port.

               

              it seems to be the easiest on my eyes of the monitors I have tried. Switching operating systems has helped as well. From Ubuntu to Linux Mint. I may try Linux Parot next. The lighting is not causing to my knowledge because I turn my lights off and only let in daylight in from a perpendicular angle. When my lights on are its worse but I am getting my lighting replaced. 

               

              I took out the Nvidia 1050 and am using integrated graphics from an Intel i7 6700k and that helped a great deal. I am not able to really modify any settings as far as graphics with Intel other an Icc profiles and I am using the stock one for the monitor.

               

              I notice it when typing but with hinting and grayscaling set to none it helps quite a bit but not completely gone for both Nnidia and Intel Integrated.  With intel  its mainly when switching tabs or pulling up new windows at this point. and typing when I go from not typing for a while to typing or from another task light browsing with my mouse to typing. like right clicking to pop up windows windows and of course new browser tabs and terminal windows.

               

              I am going to try an Invidia 970 today to see if it makes any difference. and may order an AMD 570 or 580 to see how it goes. But any further input would be awesome. or potential ways that AMD may be better in my case than an Nvidia.

               

              I do not mind switching monitors either but this "quantum dot" screen really makes me swoon. just so much less light coming at me than any IPS or TN panel I have tried thus far. and quicker response than any other VA panel thus far. I guess the colors allow me to embrace what ever is on my screen much better

               

              Ready to get through this issue though and if compromises may be necessary then so be it.

               

              thanks again.

                • Re: Considering getting AMD GPU. Is there a way to only use 6 bit color with minimal or no dithering. If dithering is necessary is static dithering available? Is this easily achieved through the AMD software center on Linux?
                  angryuser1

                  With all due respect, I doubt the dithering or GPU model is the issue you are experiencing. I do remember intel ingegrated gpu having washed out colors on my screen last time I used it, but I think it was color temperature settings if anything.

                   

                  Can you check these things:

                  Lower or raise the screen brightness in monitor settings - some screens use backlight flickering, which hurts eyes

                  Change color temperature preset in monitor settings and or GPU settings

                  Disable or enable blue light reduction if your monitor supports it

                  Play a bit with color saturation settings (monitor again)

                  Change desktop color bit depth (should be 16bit, 24 bit options at least, tough I've last seen this setting in windows xp)

                  Check if tft central has a icm? icc? profile for your monitor.

                  There should also be a thorough screen review somewhere - your screen has high refresh rate, perhaps the anti ghosting feature is set too high? I could imagine this being ******* eyes, especially if it uses backlight flickering to artificially boost it even further.

                    • Re: Considering getting AMD GPU. Is there a way to only use 6 bit color with minimal or no dithering. If dithering is necessary is static dithering available? Is this easily achieved through the AMD software center on Linux?
                      wrightpt

                      Thank you for the solid input.

                       

                      i define eye strain below as what the screen does that causes the muscles around my eyes to get what feels like a workout. sometimes the muscles flinch but its much better with the new screen(mentioned below) and operating system (linux mint). Occasionally it causes them to itch and causes me to loose focus. but it still happens.

                       

                      A new monitor (LG 32MA68HY-P) has helped the most with this as well as switching to linux mint.

                      currently using the Rx 570

                       

                      in response to what you mentioned, this is what I have learned:

                      -screen brightness on its highest helps me the most

                      -color temp at cold to medium, not warm seems to cause the least strain or dithering (mentioned below).

                      -Blue light reduction did not seem to help. initially feels better but its quickly causes my eyes to react negatively.

                      -changing color bit depth, have not found a way to do this on Linux Mint easily but if anything I want to reduce the color bit depth I assume. Am Looking into this further.

                      -Yes, Icc profile. I downloaded the screen driver and have used the icc proflie that came with that. Mint comes with  a few and have tried those as well. May calibrate my screen sooner than later and get the icc profile that is output from doing that.

                      -my new monitor only operates around 60 hz, but yes when I up the response times, that when I get what really feels like something my eyes cannot handle. Its doing something like this videos shows when faster response time settings are turned on so I def do not turn them on: 5K iMac Flicker / Strobing - YouTube

                       

                      Now below to the good stuff:

                       

                      I have the following monitor (LG 32MA68HY-P). It is a 6 bit with FRC (Frame rate control). Fame Rate Control according to LG representative I spoke with is a form of dithering.  I think this is the issue. As opposed to a native 8 bit or 10 bit panel with out the feature. I mean from you have said, the video card sends the signal and it is up to the monitor to output the data/information to the best of its ability. How that monitor delivers the signal is up to the capability of the monitor. If it needs to use dithering to reach some colors I guess it will.

                       

                      My Question (just wanted to highlight the important stuff):

                      Being that this is my issue. Is it best to get a 4k native ten bit panel if I am unable to afford a 5k panel yet? I mean what ever the video card sends I want the monitor to produce it without any issue. Is there any way to tell the video card that the monitor is only 8 or 10 bit or capable of only 4k or 3k and the rest is not needed or wanted in terms of color definition? Limit the video card in a way to cause the monitor to not produce as rich of colors? 

                       

                      I realize you said earlier that I may be able to limit the bit color depth. Maybe that will solve my issue if I can find a way to do that in a very specified way with the next monitor if it has no FRC built in. Any input if you have ever done this would be appreciated, as in adjusted the bit depth?

                       

                      Thank you for any input. I realize i have said a lot and may be asking a lot. Any feedback is welcome.

                        • Re: Considering getting AMD GPU. Is there a way to only use 6 bit color with minimal or no dithering. If dithering is necessary is static dithering available? Is this easily achieved through the AMD software center on Linux?
                          angryuser1

                          Firstly, I'd like to say that it's rare to see an internet forum user that critically approches information he's given and pursues more information on his own about the subject and obtained data. I like that a lot, it's a virtue long lost nowadays

                           

                          From what I've gathered, your eyes strain from general flicker, which is caused mainly by 2 or 3 things(unsure about the last one):

                          • Background flicker, because raising brightness helps you, tough too bright image in dark environment, at the evening for example, can tire eyes.
                          • Dithering flicker, when screen tries to represent colors properly by swapping them very fast
                          • Refreshing flicker, which is applied to moving images to eliminate ghosting (this one I'm unsure about)

                           

                          About dithering flicker, I think amd representative should take a stance. I believe that 6 bit screen shows itself to a gpu as a screen that supports 8 bit color and expects gpu to send 24 bit signal to it (3 colors per 8 bit). I have a screen that does exactly that, but my eyes aren't sensitive enough to notice it, or perhaps implementation of it  in my display unit doesn't strain eyes. I don't know if lowering color range to 16 bit like in old days will remove the issue, the image will look worse and degraded, tough I imagine it should stop flickering.

                           

                          About background flicker, not much can be done outside working in a well lit environment or changing your screen for one that does not flicker with the background light.

                          Most screens unfortunately DO flicker with it, either on any brightness lower than maximum, or to achieve better dynamic contrast ratio, or to boost refreshing ghosting elimination (the third point).

                           

                          Some ghosting elimination techniques use background flickering synced with refresh rate to boost percieveable panel reaction time. This might or might not be changeable in monitor menu settings. I'm sure you can google the terms used or find them explained in professional monitor reviews.

                           

                          As for screen resolution, I don't think you need 5k nowadays that much. I try to use screens at integer multiplications of hd nowadays, for ease of scaling and media availablility - if I have a 5k screen, then outside of programs and games, everything will be stretched and blurry. There's no movies at 5k, just 4k or full hd.

                          Especially when there's not that much difference in pixel count compared to price difference. Hell, even 4k might not be worth it yet for most people.

                          Now if one could set GPU to scale 1 pixel to exactly 4 without filtering, for pixel perfect playback, then displaying full hd movies on a 4k screen would be amazing...

                           

                          Sorry for a slight offtopic at the end, I wish you the best in solving your issue. I doubt I can give you any more input than that.

                          Cheers

                  • Re: Considering getting AMD GPU. Is there a way to only use 6 bit color with minimal or no dithering. If dithering is necessary is static dithering available? Is this easily achieved through the AMD software center on Linux?
                    jtl

                    Unfortunately even with a 8-bit native VA panel with DVI connected to my R9 270X I still notice dithering (tested with Ubuntu MATE 16.04) so I doubt the screen has much in play here. It is "doing it's job" and it's the GPU driver that's misbehaving.

                     

                    AMD should offer an option to disable dithering in the Linux driver. I tried the new new amdpro driver as well and no difference.