20 Replies Latest reply on Mar 24, 2017 11:31 AM by hbenthow

    AMD A4-5300B seems to be running high temperatures.

    hbenthow

      I have an HP 6305 Pro with an AMD A4-5300B processor (which features AMD Radeon HD 7480D integrated graphics). It is my understanding that it is not good to allow this CPU to get over 70 degrees Celcius. However, when I opened Speccy to look at my CPU temperature, I saw that it fluctuated between about 50 and 72 Celcius. It seemed to stay in the 60s most of the time, but frequently climbed into the 70s. I then stopped JDownloader (which I had running some downloads at the time), and it dropped significantly, staying mostly between 47 and 58 (with occasional climbs into the 60s), staying mostly in the lower 50s. However, it is my understanding that even this is fairly high for an idle temperature.

       

      It seems to me that whenever I use even a moderate amount of CPU, my temperatures climb very high. I recorded a video of my Windows Task Manager and Speccy open side by side, so you can see how much CPU usage tends to correlate to what temperatures of my computer. Here's the video:

       

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXk_eh0ZGes

       

      Does this appear abnormal to you?

        • Re: AMD A4-5300B seems to be running high temperatures.
          black_zion

          When was the last time you cleaned the computer of dust?

            • Re: AMD A4-5300B seems to be running high temperatures.
              hbenthow

              Never. But I just bought it refurbished about three months ago. I've looked inside the case, and it appears dust-free.

                • Re: AMD A4-5300B seems to be running high temperatures.
                  black_zion

                  I had a feeling you'd say that, I saw several listings for it on various sites. But yes, the thermal max for that chip is 70*C, and it doesn't appear as if that case has the greatest ventilation, or the best CPU cooler given it is a low end HP refurb.

                    • Re: AMD A4-5300B seems to be running high temperatures.
                      hbenthow

                      Is there any way of testing my cooling system to see if it's working properly?

                       

                      I've heard that aging thermal paste can cause heating problems. Is that a possibility?

                       

                      Also, is there any way of improving my system's cooling (such as by buying a different cooler to replace the one my computer came with)?

                       

                      Is there any way of ascertaining whether Speccy's temperature readings are accurate? How common is it for Speccy, HWiNFO, HWMonitor (all three of which give me near-identical readings) to exaggerated the temperature?

                        • Re: AMD A4-5300B seems to be running high temperatures.
                          black_zion

                          I prefer AIDA64 but Speccy gives the same readings. Make sure you are looking at the core temperatures and not the CPU temperature. A refurbished system should have had it's TIM replaced but it's possible they didn't do it. You can upgrade to a new cooler, there are plenty in the $30 range which are quite sufficient for that APU, just be sure to measure the height from your CPU to the side of the case (in millimeters) to ensure a new cooler will fit.

                           

                          1 of 1 people found this helpful
                            • Re: AMD A4-5300B seems to be running high temperatures.
                              hbenthow

                              black_zion wrote:

                               

                              I prefer AIDA64 but Speccy gives the same readings. Make sure you are looking at the core temperatures and not the CPU temperature. A refurbished system should have had it's TIM replaced but it's possible they didn't do it. You can upgrade to a new cooler, there are plenty in the $30 range which are quite sufficient for that APU, just be sure to measure the height from your CPU to the side of the case (in millimeters) to ensure a new cooler will fit.

                              Then it appears that Speccy's readings on my system are accurate. If you look in the video I linked to in the OP, you'll see that the temperatures of my two cores are visible. The overall CPU temperature reading given above them appears to be an average of these two (usually identical and never very different) temperatures.

                               

                              I sent the refurbisher a message asking if they replaced the paste. I should get a response within a couple of days, although I don't know if their customer service people will know the answer.

                               

                              Regarding coolers, can you recommend any that are particularly good? I'd like something that provides as heavy-duty a cooling effect as possible without requiring more power than my motherboard and power supply can support (and is reasonably affordable).

                               

                              Also, do you know how to tell if a cooler is compatible with one's motherboard and CPU and won't use more power than the computer's power supply and motherboard can give it? Is there any place where I can find a list of coolers that are compatible with my system?

                               

                              EDIT: What are the chances that these temperatures are a result of a fault in the CPU itself?

                                • Re: AMD A4-5300B seems to be running high temperatures.
                                  black_zion

                                  Air coolers only use the power of the fan or fans, which are about 6 watts for a typical 120mm fan, while liquid coolers run 20-30w including the pump. As far as coolers, the COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R2 Continuous Direct Contact 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler Compatible with latest Int… is probably the most popular budget air cooler, but it is tall and probably wont fit in your case. Something along the lines of ZALMAN CNPS9500A-LED 92mm 2 Ball CPU Cooler-Newegg.com  may be what you should be looking at, but still check the height. Any higher power cooling than that and you'd be better off looking at liquid cooling because of the price difference. Also be aware that liquid coolers are much quieter, their cooling power allows lower fan speeds and are especially useful in low airflow and high ambient temperature environments. The good thing about aftermarket coolers too is that (most) are forward compatible with new sockets, so you won't have to replace them, so you can splurge on it and use it for years to come.

                                    • Re: AMD A4-5300B seems to be running high temperatures.
                                      hbenthow

                                      I don't think that either of them would fit my case. My case contains a sort of plastic tunnel that goes from the fan to the cooler, fitting snugly on both.

                                       

                                      Here's a video of someone working on a computer that has fan and cooler very similar to mine. The computer in the video is a different model than mine, but the whole cooling system is very similar (albeit slightly different). This should give you an idea of what kind of cooler would fit in my system.

                                       

                                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSum_C2a1R4

                                       

                                      I just checked HWiNFo again, and noticed something interesting. It has two CPU temperature readings, "CPU Package", and "CPU (Tctl)". They report drastically different temperatures. Do you know the meaning of this?

                                       

                                      HWiNFO.JPG


                                      Also (and perhaps most importantly), do you think there's any chance that the fan simply isn't blowing hard enough? It's always very quiet (by my standards anyhow - maybe it's just because I'm used to the louder fan on my older computer). I know it's working, as I can put my hand in front of the vent and feel air moving, but I don't know if it's blowing hard enough to adequately cool my CPU. Do you think that maybe I should try turning up the fan's speed in BIOS? (I've never done this, so I don't know if it's safe, but it currently seems to be a good first step before trying anything drastic like attempting to replace hardware, if it is indeed possible that this could remedy the problem.)

                                       

                                      UPDATE:

                                       

                                      I'm now starting to think that the fan might be the cause. No matter how hot my CPU gets, the fan is always quiet.

                                       

                                      I booted into the BIOS, and tried adjusting the "Fan Idle Mode" speed setting* (without saving the changes - just as an experiment to see what would happen). Even on the highest setting, the fan didn't get any louder. In contrast, on my old computer (an HP 6005) setting this BIOS option to the highest setting immediately made the fan run so loud that it sounded like a hair dryer. Unless something is different in this computer's BIOS and the fan speed changes don't take effect until they are saved or the computer reboots or something, it seems that the CPU fan on my new computer just doesn't speed up.

                                       

                                      I could be wrong. I'm not 100% sure that the fan is the issue (or even whether the fan's seeming refusal to speed up is an issue with the fan itself), and I don't know of any better way to test the fan.

                                       

                                      Do you know of any way that I could find out?

                                       

                                      * I'm speaking of the setting seen in this photo from the HP website:

                                       

                                      imageServlet

                                      • Re: AMD A4-5300B seems to be running high temperatures.
                                        hbenthow

                                        UPDATE:

                                         

                                        I was looking at HWMonitor, and saw something that caught my interest. Under "Clocks", it seems to show the clocks of my CPU cores as being set to 3600 Mhz.

                                         

                                        Considering that my CPU is an AMD A4-5300B, which I've read is a 3.4 Ghz processor, doesn't this mean that HWMonitor is claiming that I'm overclocked?

                                         

                                        HWMonitor.JPG

                                         

                                        Afterwards, I went into Windows Power Options and switched from the High Performance plan (which sets the minimum processor state to 100%) to the Balanced plan (which sets the processor's minimum state to 5%). This helped somewhat. My temperature is cooler on average, and stays mostly within acceptable limits (40s and 50s Celcius, sometimes dipping into the 30s when idling). But when my processor usage climbs up to 3592.7 Mhz* (which it still does at times when I'm running multiple programs), it starts getting hot again. It only seems to get too hot when the processor usage climbs that high. This leads me to believe that my system is overclocked, and that this may be the cause of the heating problem.

                                          • Re: AMD A4-5300B seems to be running high temperatures.
                                            black_zion

                                            That processor has a turbo frequency of 3600mhz, which it runs at under lightly threaded loads and when thermals allow.

                                              • Re: AMD A4-5300B seems to be running high temperatures.
                                                hbenthow

                                                Ah, I see. But why does it seem to be ignoring the "when thermals allow" part?

                                                 

                                                To be fair, it does seem to show a marked improvement now that I've switched to the "Balanced" plan in Windows Power Options. That said, it still occasionally gets over 70 degrees when under heavy load (not nearly as often as when I had the "High Performance" plan running, though). Why does it allow itself to go into turbo even when doing so makes it go over 70 degrees?

                                                  • Re: AMD A4-5300B seems to be running high temperatures.
                                                    kingfish

                                                    Easy solution ?:

                                                    Change your advanced power plan like so:

                                                    Screenshot_1.png

                                                     

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    Screenshot_2.png

                                                     

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    Screenshot_3.png

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    This prevents it from going into turbo mode.

                                                      • Re: AMD A4-5300B seems to be running high temperatures.
                                                        hbenthow

                                                        I tried that. It does prevent overheating, but it does more than just disable turbo. Instead of making my CPU max out at 3.4 Ghz, it makes it max out at 3.0 Ghz (30 multipliers instead of 34 of the 100 MHz bus speed).

                                                          • Re: AMD A4-5300B seems to be running high temperatures.
                                                            kingfish

                                                            And did you re-apply the thermal paste? That's something I wouldn't take the 'refurbishers' word for. A good quality paste...applied properly. Doesn't take but a minute to do.

                                                              • Re: AMD A4-5300B seems to be running high temperatures.
                                                                hbenthow

                                                                The refurbishers claim they did, although there's no way of knowing for sure.


                                                                I didn't reapply any myself. I don't have any thermal paste at this time, nor am I sure about how to reapply it properly (the right thickness and coverage) and without frying my CPU with static (I don't have any sort of anti-static devices). I just recently found out that thermal paste is a thing that exists a few days ago.

                                                                  • Re: AMD A4-5300B seems to be running high temperatures.
                                                                    kingfish

                                                                    black_zion has the best advice I've seen regarding the application and brands of paste to use. It is really simple to do...the key is to not over apply. It doesn't require any IT knowledge...layman simple. In any event, this sounds like a probable cause to me..a good, properly applied thermal paste makes a world of difference temperature wise.

                                                                    • Re: AMD A4-5300B seems to be running high temperatures.
                                                                      black_zion

                                                                      TomsHardware did a good article Thermal Paste Comparison, Part One: Applying Grease And More which talks about applying TIM. It's not hard, and you don't need any anti-static devices if the humidity is at least 35%, which it is in most places (if you don't get a static charge from rubbing against sheets, clothing, or a rug, then it is high enough). There's a ton of TIM out there, they covered some in part two,Thermal Paste Comparison, Part Two: 39 Products Get Tested  but TL;DR it's all about the same. I like Arctic Silver 5 High-Density Polysynthetic Silver Thermal Compound AS5-3.5G - OEM-Newegg.com  myself, as it's cheap, effective, been around for ages, and versatile enough to replace any component's TIM (I use IC Diamond but the price premium isn't really worth it). Also I would HIGHLY recommend Arctic Silver Arcticlean Thermal material Remover & Surface Purifier ACN-60ML (2-PC-SET) - Newegg.com it's $6, will last you a lifetime unless you are a system builder, and makes cleanup of old TIM very easy, quick, and thorough, much much much much easier and effective than 90% alcohol and elbow grease, and smells a heck of a lot better too (smells of oranges).

                                                                      1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                                        • Re: AMD A4-5300B seems to be running high temperatures.
                                                                          hbenthow

                                                                          According to that article, conductive metal pastes are risky, because they can cause damage if they get in the wrong area. Wouldn't that include Arctic Silver 5?

                                                                           

                                                                          How would I be able to tell for certain if I put too much or too little paste? Taking the heat sink off to check would ruin it and require another reapplication. Also, which method of application do you think is best, a line or a dot? I read that some people spread theirs with a credit card. Is that advisable?

                                                                           

                                                                          I read that some people spread theirs with a credit card. Is that advisable?

                                                                           

                                                                          What would I use along with the cleaning solution to remove the old paste? I think I read somewhere that some people use coffee filters. Would that work?

                                                                           

                                                                          What do you think the chances are that re-applying thermal paste would help in my case? Have you ever encountered a case such as mine where a CPU got overheated when going into turbo mode, and re-applying thermal paste was able to fix the issue? (Keep in mind that my GPU is integrated into my CPU.)

                                                                           

                                                                          By the way, it appears that there probably isn't anything wrong with my fans. It turns out that the HP 6305 doesn't change the Fan Idle Mode until reboot. So my suspicion that the fans are non-responsive was probably unfounded.

                                                                            • Re: AMD A4-5300B seems to be running high temperatures.
                                                                              black_zion

                                                                              Son of a...backspace and I lost my whole post, here we go again...

                                                                               

                                                                              Alright, liquid metal is highly electrically conductive, but it's also very nasty stuff only used by very experienced people. Silver and diamond containing TIM is -slightly- electrically conductive, but you're not putting it on the capacitors, you're using a very little bit to eliminate the air gap between the heat spreader and the heat sink. Personally I use this pattern (ignore the water, my AS5 has been in the fridge too long and I didn't draw off the bad bit at the front, AS5 is fairly thick).

                                                                               

                                                                              Clipboard01.jpg

                                                                               

                                                                              Also remember that what you are trying to keep cool is in the center of that heat spreader, not the entire surface, so it doesn't need to reach all the way to the edge. Here is what the A10-5700 looks like delidded (from And... I delidded my A10-5700!)

                                                                               

                                                                               

                                                                              Only that silver area in the center is the processor and graphic core, and where the heat originates from.

                                                                               

                                                                              You don't need to use a coffee filter, just use a rag or paper towel and give it a shot of compressed air before you apply the TIM to make sure any dust is removed.

                                                                               

                                                                              Fresh TIM can give several degrees reduction over old, dried up TIM, even double digits.

                                                                                • Re: AMD A4-5300B seems to be running high temperatures.
                                                                                  hbenthow

                                                                                  UPDATE: I've replaced my thermal paste, using some Arctic Silver 5. I'm not sure whether or not I put too much. The amount I put was larger than the BB-pellet-sized amount recommended in many places but not as large as an English pea.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  In the first few minutes, my temperatures seemed significantly worse. At times that they would have been in the low 50s before replacing the paste, they were in the upper 50s. However, after those initial minutes, the results became more unclear. They started to get closer to what they had been before changing the paste. It's hard to tell at this point whether there has been any benefit to replacing the paste.