44 Replies Latest reply on Feb 19, 2017 7:52 PM by colesdav

    Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake

    ugabuga

      For real... everyone knows windows 10 is the worst..There are still so many people using windows 7 including myself (+ Linux on multi-boot)

      Ever since Win 8 Microsoft has been out of control with their spying and shoving their junk down consumers throats.

      This is the time and the place where we all put our foot down... STOP buying and supporting this nonsense and it will go away.

      We as a consumers have the combined power to put an end to this. Continue using Win7 and do NOT buy hardware that do NOT support it.

        • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake

          Windows 7 is good, at least, it is all the time better than Windows Vista, which once left me a very sad view of computer system, for its negative energy colour type, and poor performance, unreachable requirements put onto then popular hardware configurations and so forth. But I could say that I love Windows 10, from all the aspect, this OS is better than ever before, for its stability and performance, even though its modern user experience has gone away.

           

          The fact is not AMD Ryzen does not support Windows 7, but to the opposite, Microsoft does not provide support for those processors with Windows 7. But that should never be a case, because for this situation, there would leave much room for OEM manufacturers. They could extend the current firmware, design some a special hyper visor, like found on IBM P Series Server, let those once popular O/S running within this container, rather than working barely on the Ryzen based machine would bring up another challenge towards motherboard vendors too. I love this kind of situation, and I love computer system entering into even modern than the passed!

            • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
              ugabuga

              I respect your opinion, you have a right to one. it is what it is. We all have "reasons" and "motivations" for our opinions. When you have a spare moment please go to a place like BestBuy or any other major computer outlet. Have a stroll around the laptop or PC isle and just observe how many units have a blue-screen or some type of a error message displaying on it. I have encountered at least one or two units per visit. I realize that they are exposed to more people messing with the units but this should not matter for a "GOOD" OS right? As to the argument that it is Microsoft that is responsible for support. It is like saying you are responsible today for actions that you will do tomorrow. There is no way that Microsoft could of foresee the creation of a new hardware 5-10 years in the future. Where as AMD is aware of Win7 and therefore should provide sufficient supporter for it. To me it is common-sense.

              1 of 2 people found this helpful
                • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake

                  Thank you for your reply, the very problem is that why you expect the future processors to support the phased-out or about phasing-out O/S? Why not just use the current processors to support those processors? The best way to support those O/S when adopting future processors is to utilise the Virtual Machines. Windows 7 is good, but not better. There are much rooms for Microsoft to developed a second edition of Windows 7 if Microsoft would love. BSOD is quite often thing for all the versions of Microsoft Windows, but the good news is that none could disable Windows Updates, which could solve those problems in time, fast and efficient. So again, Windows 10 is better.

              • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                black_zion

                AMD doesn't make Windows. Microsoft has declined to add Intel Kaby Lake and AMD Ryzen, as well as all future processors from both companies, as supported for Windows 7 and 8.1. Please post your complaints to the correct party: Microsoft Support Community

                2 of 2 people found this helpful
                  • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                    ugabuga

                    My post is NOT intended as a complaint per say. It is but a opinion and as such should be looked at for what it is. There is nothing personal.

                    Everyone must express their opinions for we all have the right to one. Just because my opinion defers from yours it does not make it right or wrong.

                    It just is what it is. For me sharing and expressing opinions in a FREE and democratic society is a RIGHT not a privilege.

                     

                    Once again, this is my own opinion, but It would appear that what it boils down to is a matter of MONEY. Isn't it always about the money?

                    It does take time and money for AMD to hire programmers to write proper drivers. All the documentations and of course (time=money.) more delays

                    to release and sell CPUs not to mention added pressure from Intel.

                    For me this "was" the most anticipated hardware release ever, but now it's just another disappointment.

                    • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                      ryzenwindows7

                      Kaby Lake will run windows 7, see the Anandtech review. AMD can pressure Microsoft back to allow them to provide support if that's what's going on, which I'm not saying it is. Also as per this article AMD made a decision themselves not to continue driver development, so it's more of a 50/50 share between the 2:

                       

                      AMD confirms there will be no Ryzen drivers for Windows 7 | PC Gamer

                       

                      Per article:

                      "As new silicon generations are introduced, they will require the latest Windows platform at that time for support," Microsoft said last August. "This enables us to focus on deep integration between Windows and the silicon, while maintaining maximum reliability and compatibility with previous generations of platform and silicon."

                      Whether that's really the case is up for debate. AMD did test Ryzen on Windows 7 where it presumably booted up just fine, but there might have been some features that didn't work as anticipated."

                      < 50%

                      1 of 1 people found this helpful
                    • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                      cusa123

                      Talking about operating systems, we will have Linux support in the output of Ryzen?. And that system recommended in linux. Can give some kind of information or at least know if AMD has designed a statement shortly before the departure of Ryzen?.

                      ---------------------------

                      Hablando de sistemas operativos, tendremos soporte linux en la salida de Ryzen?. Y que sistema recomienda en linux. Pueden dar algun tipo de informacion o al menos saber si amd tiene pensado sacar algun comunicado en breve, antes de la salida de Ryzen?

                      • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                        quadrifoglio

                        It's Microsoft decision. Windows 7 is ended, they are only providing bare minimum technical support.

                        As for Windows 10, I had all Windows versions, since 3.1 and I can tell you it's the best version I had. You should give a try to the "anniversary edition".

                        1 of 5 people found this helpful
                          • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                            colesdav

                            Do you not have concerns about privacy? Windows 10 is free because you give away your data.

                              • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                                quadrifoglio

                                Yes, I'm very sensible to privacy (btw, I'm a programmer, more than 20 years of experience).

                                Do you know about this settings ?

                                 

                                feddback &amp; diagnostics Capture.PNGbasic data collected Capture.PNG

                                  • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                                    colesdav

                                    Windows 10 is not for me.

                                    I have Machine running Windows 8.1. for now.

                                    I have used Microsoft OS for many years, and spent lots on their products.

                                    I am actually unhappy to have to take this decision to move to Linux full time.
                                    It will be additional effort I can do without.

                                     

                                     

                                    Here are a few problems I saw with Windows 10 when I looked at moving to it. Perhaps things have changed recently.

                                     

                                    (1). Yes I know about those privacy settings. I have had cases in past where I turn them all off, an update is run, I reboot and log in.

                                         I found they are all back on again. That's just one example. It has happened more than once. It has happened on more than one machine.

                                         You have to turn each option off individually again if it does happen. It is a pain.

                                     

                                    (2). In terms of having privacy concerns of storing or backing data "in the cloud", and what is in telemetry data, what can it be used for, why is it so valuable?

                                         I think there have been plenty of reports of data security & hacking concerns/issues on this general subject in many reports and articles from many different sources.
                                         Who knows what can happen if you store you data to the cloud, even when sending it encrypted over the internet, for example.

                                     

                                    (3). In terms of control, even in Windows 8.1 the "Upgrade to Windows 10" was constanly downloaded to my Windows 8.1 machine.

                                         On one of those cases I actually found my Windows 8.1 machine starting the Windows 10 upgrade process without my authorization.
                                         I managed to stop it in time. On previous versions of Windows, I had the choice, if I wanted to, to turn off automatic updates completely I could do that.

                                         That ability is very important, especially if there is a software bug in a patch.

                                         In Windows 10 I can only "defer" or choose when upgrades go on. Not choose what goes on, as far as I know.

                                     

                                    You can look up the above issues on the internet if you wish. You should be able to find articles on the problems I describe, from what look like

                                    a number of reputable technical sources such as on line PC Magazine articles etc.

                                     

                                    Perhaps moving full time 24/7 to Linux will be hell and likely  it has it's own privacy and security issues.

                                    I personally have had enough with Windows 10 unless things change/improve.
                                    I do have one machine with Windows 10 for DX12 testing but that's all it will be used for.

                                     

                                    I have made my Request that Ryzen support Windows 7.

                                    I have stated my reasons based on my honest opinion.

                                    I have nothing else to say on this topic or thread.

                                      • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                                        quadrifoglio

                                        Telemetry data gives the ability to software engineers to better understands performance and/or stability issues by providing the "context" in which these occured. Is extremely valuable and that's why I think the MS engineers decided to impose at least a "basic" level of diagnostic data.

                                        I told you that by using this setting to "Basic" you are extremely fine with your privacy. You can control and adjust this setting.

                                         

                                        Also, modern software uses techniques like "secure strings", ex: SecureString Class (System.Security) that almost prevents (minimise the probability) that sensitive data like password to persist in memory and to be harvested from a memory dump. That applies to Microsoft Edge, Office and a lot of other recent software.

                                        So, even in the case you stay with the "Full" setting, the probabilty that you are sending a password with the memory dump you send over the internet is extremely low. Even in that case, the channel is secured and on the other end you have normal people that use that data for diagnostics.

                                         

                                        Related to forced updates, it had been imposed in order minimise security flaws exposure by forcing users to always stay update and have security fix delivered quickly. I admit it can be a little frustrating but this is a tradeoff in order to make sure that lambda users will stay up to date and secure.

                                         

                                        When you'll have enough of Linux, I recommend you to give a try to the "Aniversary Edition" + updates

                                        Cheers,

                                          • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                                            colesdav

                                            Hi,

                                             

                                            1. Yes I understand all all that you say about nothing is likely to go wrong if everything is perfect in the system but life isn't like that at all in my experience.

                                             

                                            2. RE: When you'll have enough of Linux, I recommend you to give a try to the "Aniversary Edition" + updates.
                                            I completed the  "free upgrade" at the last possible moment on all of the Windows PC/Laptops I own initially.

                                            I made sure I did full system images first.
                                            I  just wanted to get the install done so that my Windows licenses were, I guess, "marked" somehow as having been upgraded.
                                            I then blew away the Windows 10 Upgrade on most of my machines. back to their original Windows 7 and 8.1. disk Images.
                                            I did not rely on the "Roll Back to Windows 7/8.1" and it is just as well I didn't. It failed in a couple of my machines for sure.

                                            Two machines were stuck  as Windows 10 OS after the rollback attempt. I wiped their hard drives and restored the original drive images.

                                            I left a few on machines on Windows 10.

                                            The Anniversary Update happened shortly afterwards.

                                            I am well aware of it and that's the version I had the problems with using. Including booting up after update to find all my privacy settings to "absolutely none".

                                             

                                            3. That takes me back to my point 1 above. The fact those settings are still in the OS means they can, in principle,  get reset to "no privacy", which means there is no point in having them in the first place.

                                             

                                            The diagram showing the problems with running and installing Linux is really exaggerated for today's Linux Distro's I use.  
                                            Installing Linux and Ubuntu is really user friendly.
                                            The problem with moving to using Linux as a primary OS full time is mostly the fact that the majority of people run Windows and therefore most commercial software is for Windows, including games.There are some really good Open Source 'Office' packages available on Linux and there are an increasing number of games that run on Linux on Steam.
                                            Last time I installed the AMD Drivers they were o.k. on my machine. Mail software is good and easy to set up now as well.

                                              • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                                                quadrifoglio

                                                Well... when I gave you my advice to try Windows 10 "Aniversary Edition" (1607) I meant a clean install of it :

                                                You should never install a new version of Windows over a previous one. The result is messy and take more space on your system disk than required by a clean install.

                                                I agree Microsoft messed up with the upgrade process to Windows 10. That doesn't change the fact that Windows 10 (1607) is still the best Windows until today.

                                                  • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                                                    colesdav

                                                    I am sure that I followed Microsoft recommend upgrade instructions.

                                                    I am certain I ran all of the disk and system checks that are required.

                                                     

                                                    It is all irrelevant now. I am moving to Linux as my primary Operating System.

                                                    The next decision to take is which Linux OS / Distribution to move to.

                                                    My recommedation to anyone else taking this decision  is to use the latest version of Ubuntu Desktop as a starting point.

                                                    I will stay on Ubuntu myself for now. AMD Drivers are available and it seems to have the best Driver support at the moment.

                                                     

                                                    I downloaded and installed Robolinux this morning, just to look at it in terms of a Linux Distribution, to see how easy it was to install, and compare to Ubuntu.

                                                    I wanted to take a look at what exactly it is they are providing versus just staying with Ubuntu, and to see If I could do similar in Ubuntu.

                                                    The system I tried it on is Asus Z87 Deluxe/Dual i7-4770K/Dual R9 Nano/ 32GB Memory.

                                                    My experience downloading and Installing Robolinux was the same as I have with Ubuntu.

                                                     

                                                    1. Download the ISO.

                                                    2. Burn the ISO to a DVD Disk.

                                                    3. Boot from the DVD disk. Robolinux installs and launches and you get two options.

                                                         a. Run it as a live CD - just to take a look at it. If it looks like it works and you are happy then ...

                                                         b. Install it to a hard drive immediately.

                                                    4. I tried the Live CD. Everything worked no problem.

                                                    5. I installed it to a Crucial 500GB SATA3 SSD.

                                                    6. I tested it for a few hours running from the Hard Drive.

                                                     

                                                    As a Linux installation it was very easy. Everything is there. All the office software you need - You can read and edit Microsoft Office  etc.

                                                    The 3D Desktop does work as advertised in the Video.

                                                    You need to make Donation Payment by Paypal to access the Easy Installers.

                                                     

                                                    I stopped there. I need to find out more about Robolinux and take care to make sure who they are exactly.

                                                • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                                                  seven7

                                                  It was  the "Aniversary Edition" update that broke a friend's PC.  Unacceptable!

                                        • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                                          ryzenwindows7

                                          I have a problem with its intrusive telemetry that no matter what cannot be completely turned off. Enterprise and education versions do not have this, but cannot be bought by individuals. Win10 was initially free, I always said if it's free maybe that is not the product, you are!

                                            • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                                              colesdav

                                              Hi,

                                               

                                              I was looking to see if i could actually purchase a version of Windows 10, just like I could in in the past for Windows 8.1 and Windows 7, that was 100% guaranteed not to have any telemetry in it at all. Preferably verified by an independent organisation. Privacy is something that I value. I am finding it difficult to work out if there is a Windows 10 Version for Small Business / Personal use that is not "for free". I cannot find that version.

                                               

                                              I started to look at the Windows 10 Enterprise Version. I was able to download an evaluation version. I was about to install it but then I read that the Windows 10 Enterprise version is only sold to large Corporations in Volume Licensing. So really it seems pointless for me, a small "ant" in comparison to a large Corporation

                                              to even look at the Windows 10 Enterprise version. I cant buy licenses in volume.

                                               

                                              If it is true that Windows 10 Enterprise can be configured to 100% turn off all telemetry, but there is no version for the consumer that can do this I am totally confused about this licensing model and the logic in this.

                                               

                                              Why is telemetry somthing that a large Corporation wishes to have 100% turned off?

                                              Why would a large Corporation need the option to turn off telemetry but I do not?

                                               

                                              Thanks.

                                                • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                                                  kingfish

                                                  Spying is only one of the big issues I have with Win10...another issue that is at the top of the list is, sponging off my internet bandwith to update other suckers.

                                                  http://www.computerworld.com/article/2955288/microsoft-windows/windows-10-commandeers-users-upload-bandwidth.html

                                                    • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                                                      black_zion

                                                      I'd say at the very top of the list is the numerous Windows 10 updates which result in borked systems, and since Microsoft made all updates cumulative (and required), you can't pick out the bad one, you have to take them all. In all the years of 7 and 8.1 there were only a couple of those, while Windows 10 has had many times that in under 2 years, despite their supposed "Fast Ring" network of thousands of beta testers.

                                                       

                                                      Privacy issues can be dealt with with free third party programs, turning your machine into a Windows Update Network contributor can be disabled as well, but using Windows 10 is very much like Russian Roulette, you don't know when it will happen, only that it will. With Windows 7 and 8.1, you don't have to worry about that.

                                                       

                                                      For a long time Windows was the middle ground, Apple was the full on "You will do what we say and pay for it", Linux was the full on custom experience but you needed several thick books, a d20, and refracted rays of Saturn in your toolbox, while Windows gave you a bit of customization ability, not as much as Linux, but it protected you from really screwing things up, and like an Apple things just worked (Starting with Windows 2000 that is, 95 and 98 were a crapshoot, change one thing and reinstallation was in your future). Windows 10 takes the most evil features of Apple (the attitude of we know better than you do, the mandatory updates, and the information gathering) while bringing back the potential instability of Windows 9x, while removing customization, including a big fat OFF switch for Cortana and data submission, and, of course, the update situation.

                                                        • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                                                          colesdav

                                                          Since it really does look like I am going to have to go linux full time then,  can you tell me what a d20 is and how I get refracted rays of Saturn?
                                                          ;-).

                                                          I am trying to laugh because I know I am going to have to have to drop Windows 7 & 8.1 soon and I have been hoping that a large number of Windows Users will somehow stop and think about what is happening with Windows 10 OS and Privacy etc. I was hoping that at least Microsoft would provide a payed for consumer license without telemetry.

                                                          Whilst I do know linux quite well in terms of programming and command line etc andI do keep 3 different flavours Ubuntu, Fedora, and RedHat(Centos)  patched and running  I am definitely not a Linux System Admin expert.

                                                          Mind you I was thinking of learning how to set up up my own Mail Server, but something has put me off that idea in the past year.

                                                              • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                                                                colesdav

                                                                Great!

                                                                 

                                                                Windows:  I have definitely done Step 1 and Step 2 I have always run full weekly backup on Windows.
                                                                Never lost all my files but certainly lost around a weeks work after bad Windows Update patches,

                                                                 

                                                                Apple: Never owned one.
                                                                I have gone into an Apple Store a few times. I always follow Star Trek Federation procedure for teleporting into a Borg Cube.

                                                                I try to stay as far away from anything in a blue shirt just in case they identify me as a Windows/Linux user and try to assimilate me into the
                                                                collective. Did speak to one once. Told them that Windows PC/Laptops were far better value and more powerful.
                                                                Another four turned up and I decided it was best to get Scotty to beam me out of there, like yesterday.

                                                                 

                                                                Linux. Yup. Totally understand that. Even designed part of a microprocessor/microcontroller IC.
                                                                I am sitting in my "home office" right now surrounded by 4 PC's with whirring fans.
                                                                Thanks I just realised it's time to have a shave and a shower ... oh no.

                                                                • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake

                                                                  Learning C++ programming language is an interesting job, which I showed off to an American lady when I was a teenager. But Linux kernel is programming with C language rather than C++, even the kernel of Windows NT is almost written with C rather than C++, that is reason why people would love to spend time on MFC if they want to programme at many levels. As far as I know the very OS kernel involving partial C++ programming is macOS for its XNU system. I once worked as an AIX maintainer, the very first step entering into the world of UNIX or UNIX-like O/S, one should spend time on comprehending the system configuration, writing scripts (under /etc) directly or using something utilities provided by the O/S. Yeah, that is a hard job, black and white, far more boring than programming in C or C++. Like Linux, UNIX is almost the kernel or most fundamental layer of a whole O/S, what the professional administrators are just working on this layer. Commercialised Linux would provide much more convenient ways to ease those jobs, such as RHEL and/or SELS. Ubuntu is also a good toy to play with, because it already provided many GUI utilises, sitting end users far away from the Linux and/or shell level. But, after all, Linux is a collaborated work, involving efforts for many different teams or personal developers with different motivations and purposes. So such O/S could never be the product replacing O/S like Windows and/or macOS.

                                                                   

                                                                  Windows and macOS are both out-of-box ready O/S, different from pieces of components arranged together to solve some a problem, they are designed as a whole, even  though macOS appearances as many layers from different products. macOS is designed for Apple in-house products, but Windows is designed for computers from different vendors. So they both could never replace each other, but supplement each other. Designing some a O/S like Windows would consider much more than the macOS, for the latter the final products are very close the O/S, they just need to consider how to use hardware to realise presumptions, without needing to consider expectations they do not need to worry about. So the Windows goes a little bit further from the actual hardware, but very close to the generalised imagined platform. Windows O/S could never exploit the potential power of a specific hardware, but could let as many computers as possible to run with their expectations. This thing is bad and good.

                                                                   

                                                                  There is nothing perfect, so problems would happen to all the systems, but the solution weight at different means.

                                                            • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                                                              colesdav

                                                              Thanks kingfish for pointing me to that one.
                                                              Much appreciated.

                                                        • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                                                          colesdav

                                                          I would have liked like to see Windows 7 Support for Ryzen as well.  Best OS from Microsoft. Good backup and restore. Reasonably stable Updates, mostly.

                                                           

                                                          However as long as it supports Linux OS and Vulkan I will be happy. Hopefully more people will move to Linux.

                                                          I am walking away from Microsoft Windows 10 unless things change. I doubt they will.

                                                           

                                                          I can just about put up with Windows 8.1 with some 'modifications' the User interface is O.K.
                                                          One modification has been to use Classic Shell for desktop. I use the Metro Interface on my PC as well as a quick way to find and launch some programs.

                                                           

                                                          I am careful to check what Windows 8.1 Updates are provided to my machine by Microsoft.

                                                          I have seen reports that Windows 10 type "telemetry" features have been sneaking into Windows 8.1 in certain updates.
                                                          I have been starting to have to check exactly what is officially at least in the patches.
                                                          Windows 8.1 patch stability has been terrible for me in past year since Windows 10 upgrade offers came in.
                                                          I seem to be spending more time fixing Windows 8.1 Updates and checking what is in patches and less time doing productive work.

                                                           

                                                          For people who think worrying about Privacy is silly and they have nothing to hide or fear, fine.
                                                          Ask yourself if you would walk up to a complete stranger and give them your laptop, phone, passwords, and all your personal and financial info. Still o.k. with that?

                                                           

                                                          I have looked at Windows 10. I am not moving to Windows 10. Not convinced I have any privacy or security. No control on updates. I want a PC, not an iPhone.
                                                          I want control. I do not want all my data sucked up to a remote "secure cloud" to be mined. The one thing I was o.k. with. The side scrolling Metro Interface has also gone. It's vertical now. That makes perfect sense on a desktop monitor.

                                                           

                                                          Game over Microsoft Windows 10. I know I am am not the only one who feels like this.

                                                           

                                                          Im preparation I have been moving more and more to Linux. 
                                                          I have Fedora for dev work and future features of Red Hat.

                                                          I run Red hat for production / work.

                                                          I run Ubuntu for fun and ease of use.

                                                          • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                                                            goodplay

                                                            I'm on the fence until I see factual official specifications.

                                                            • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                                                              ambrose

                                                              Hello Everyone,

                                                              Seeing how this is a user to user forum I hope the same people and all the people on Windows 7 voice their opinion on AMD's facebook page, etc. Microsoft won't be satisfied until they have complete monopoly on every PC system in the world, and for what, so they can make everyone a bunch of sheep, and distribute their advertizing wears to us.

                                                               

                                                              I think AMD should partner with the Linux and open source crowd and really create something microsoft would have to contend with. As the old line in a movie once said, " Build It And They Will Come "

                                                               

                                                              Microsoft, what a bunch of Bone-Heads

                                                              • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                                                                muce

                                                                Same I feel when mobos started to not giving support to winXP..

                                                                • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                                                                  pillze

                                                                  i agree.  windows 10 is spyware, and death.   good luck on windows 10.  i dont even want dx 12 is horrendous too.  i mean netflix is canceled cause of kabylake upgrade.  amd kinda needs fans, please!!!! help us to help you AMD!!!!

                                                                  • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                                                                    colesdav

                                                                    For those who decide they do not want to use Windows 10 as their main OS, I thought this looked interesting.

                                                                    It might be a potential solution in future if Ryzen will run on Debian Linux in future.  Robolinux is PC Compatible

                                                                    It is a Linux distribution that is set up to run Windows 10 in a virtual machine.

                                                                    There is a video here: The NEW Robolinux Xfce 3D 8.7 Raptor runs Windows Virus Free! - YouTube
                                                                    I have contacted them to find out if it can block Windows 10 telemetry completely when windows 10 is run as a virtual machine inside it.

                                                                     

                                                                    ###Update. I started to do some prep work to install and try Robolinux out and initially purchase Windows 7 and Windows 10 licences.

                                                                    ### I double checked the Windows 10 license agreement before proceeding any further.
                                                                    ###From my understanding of it, I think anything that  would deliberately stop Windows 10 telemetry whuld violate the Windows 10 license agreement.
                                                                    ###Therefore Robolinux must be allowing Windows 10 telemetry to proceed according to the settings inside Winddows 10 environment.

                                                                     

                                                                    It looks really easy to set up and use, installation looks similar to Fedora/Ubuntu. Which I an really familiar with and is very easy.

                                                                    I am about to try it out.

                                                                    ###Update - I decided not to as it must still allow Windows 10 telemetry to comply with the license agreement.
                                                                    ###My misunderstanding. It does look like a great product if you are fine with the Windows 10 telemetry and want to be able to run windows within linux though.

                                                                     

                                                                    It could be handy if you want to run older versions of Windows.

                                                                    Pretty likely you would have to run your games on the main Linux OS though.

                                                                    Does anyone else on on the forum have experience using Robolinux?

                                                                     

                                                                    I will raise a support ticket with Microsoft to address my concerns, and get some clarification from Microsoft directly about license versions etc.

                                                                    Like I said I don't really want to drop using Windows as my main OS.

                                                                    ###Update I will do this next anyhow, as I have said I have used Microsoft for years and dont want to move away from it as main OS.

                                                                    • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                                                                      colesdav

                                                                      Since I know everyone is busy, and may not have been able to take the time to click on the links to the Robolinux page or with the video.
                                                                      I decided to take a few screenshots.
                                                                      I forgot to mention that the Fedora KDE Desktop on the Fedora Spin I use doesn't just have multiple desktops, it has 3D desktops.
                                                                      Robolinux have implemented a similar thing.

                                                                      If you are unfamiliar with Linux and think it is just a console based ancient looking OS then have a look at this:

                                                                       

                                                                      3D Cube Desktop.

                                                                       

                                                                      You can rotate the view of the desktops.

                                                                       

                                                                      Similarly 3D Cylinder.

                                                                      • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                                                                        colesdav

                                                                        Here is where it gets interesting.

                                                                        If you watch the video, they show how easy it is to install and launch Window 7, XP and 10 from within the RoboLinux environment.

                                                                         

                                                                        Launching Windows 7.

                                                                        Microsoft Office running Windows 7.

                                                                        Launching Windows XP.

                                                                        • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                                                                          colesdav

                                                                          Finally the one we may all be waiting for Windows 10 Cube.

                                                                          And Windows 10 Desktop View.

                                                                          ###Update - from my understanding of reading the Windows 10 License agreement, Robolinux must still allow Windows 10 Telemetry data through.

                                                                           

                                                                          Obviously you would be running on Virtual Machine and there would be / could be a significant performance hit.

                                                                          But from what I read, Ryzen has plenty of horsepower and threads to throw at it

                                                                            • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake

                                                                              Those O/S are running under the virtualised environment, the performance could never be expected too much, especially most functions of Windows are realised with the hardware acceleration. But thanks to the virtualisation technology, maybe one day those hardware accelerate could be realised under hypervisor, then that would leave the motherboard designers much room to develop a special firmware to enable those future processors to support legacy O/S at many levels.

                                                                                • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                                                                                  colesdav

                                                                                  Yes understood.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Anyhow I stopped looking at using Robolinux with Windows 10 or Windows 7 at all.   I will add additional comments an reply to the main poster but I will discuss it here to you as well.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I got as far as downloading the Robolinux ISO and I also did some preparation. I completed some driver installation and Windows Updates, then started a System Image Backup of an existing Windows 7 hard drive so I could install my data with Windows 7 under RoboLinux. I started to shop for somewhere I could get Windows 7 licenses. Microsoft do not sell them any more to consumers as far as I can tell. Neither does my local PC store. I didn't look for them any further as my real objective was to run Windows 10

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I then decided to look at purchasing a new Windows 10 License. The Licence agreement is here:

                                                                                  https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/UseTerms_Retail_Windows_10_English.htm
                                                                                  As far as I can see based on the License Agreement,  by accepting the license you are legally agreeing to allow Microsoft to the use of telemetry data.

                                                                                  I think that any attempt to prevent telemetry above and beyond the settings given by Microsoft would be a violation of the above license agreement.

                                                                                  I do not want to do that obviously.

                                                                                   

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Robolinux looks like a good Linux solution, based on the youtube presentation and clearly it would enable you to move to linux as your main OS and have Windows 7/8.1/10 as a secondary OS, provided you purchase a valid license from Microsoft. Running Windows 10 under Robolinux would be a performance hit.

                                                                                  However as far as I read it, if running Windows 10 in the Robolinux environment did anything to block Windows 10 telemetry, then it would be a violation of the Windows 10 License agreement.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  So I think you either accept the use of telemetry in Windows 10 or you choose an alternative linux only OS.

                                                                                  I am not looking into this any further.
                                                                                  It looks like if I really want to have a solution without telemetry then Linux is my only option for an OS moving forward.

                                                                              • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                                                                                colesdav

                                                                                Hi,

                                                                                 

                                                                                I contacted Microsoft Support and gave them feedback that I, for one, want to be able to use Windows 10 but do not want to have any telemetry in it at all.

                                                                                I told them I would like to be able to purchase such a version.

                                                                                I told them that I had had issues with the way the windows 10 rollout was performed, that I had seen problem where the privacy settings had been mysteriously changed after an update.
                                                                                I told them that I found the lack of ability to control what patches are applied and when was an issue for me.

                                                                                I also told them that I actually want to move to Windows 10 if those issues are addressed.
                                                                                I also told them that the lack of Windows 7 support and Windows 10 telemetry might delay AMD Zen uptake, based on comments I see on this forum and on the Web in general.

                                                                                I told them that I might have to move to using Linux.

                                                                                I told them about Robolinux.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Thats it.

                                                                                Feedback given.

                                                                                • Re: Always supported AMD.... until now? Why would AMD NOT support Win7 with their new RYZEN CPUs? BIG misstake
                                                                                  mateau

                                                                                  Actually WIndows 7 is supported.  The level of support is limited by Microsoft NOT AMD.  In short their are NO drivers to write as DX12 is not supported by Windows 7.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  In fact the ONLY "drivers" that AMD provides is GPU and DX11 related.  Since DX11 is dead and no longer supported by Microsoft there is nothing really to support for Windows 7.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  The same with Windows 8.  Windows 8 supports DX11.3 but NOT DX11.X which was written for XBOX and has DX12 extensions.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  However AMD fully supports Vulkan which IS written for Windows 7.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  If you are a serious gamer, the best Directx API you are going to get is DX11.1.  DX11.2 and DX11.3 are Windows8 and Windows 10 ONLY.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  The best API you will be able to run is Vulkan.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  DX12 is unavailable and does not run on Windows 7 for obvious reasons.  Microsoft wants Windows 7 dead and buried like XP and the user into Windows 10.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I suppose AMD could release Mantle for Windows 7 however I don't know if there are back room deals NOT to release Mantle as DX12 is virtually the same API just rebranded.  However I doublt many Game Developers would add Mantle support in addition to supporting DX12 and legacy API's.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Windows 10 believe it or not is perfectly fine.  I am an old dog and I hate learning new tricks but if you want DX12 gaming then you have no choice in the matter.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  So just bite the bullet and get a Windows 10 machine.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I will agree though that Windows 10 should have a legacy setting for Appearance say Win 7 or Win XP mode.  I have old XP software such as AutoCad C3d that does not run on WIndows 7 or Windows 10.