19 Replies Latest reply on Jan 28, 2017 3:05 PM by zeusabj

    Another MacBook with an AMD GPU and zero Windows driver support from you guys...

    zeusabj

      I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be rude but as a MacBook Pro user I've dealt with a highly frustrating situation concerning AMD GPUs *for years* now. Its just reached a point where I feel the need to say something about it. In the past 8 years I've owned 4 MacBooks with discrete GPUs. Two have had NVIDIA GPUs and two have had AMD GPUs, and I have utterly despised those AMD GPUs. Windows Boot Camp driver support from NVIDIA just flat puts AMD to shame. My last MacBook was 4 years old and it was just time to buy a new one this past fall. I decided to upgrade to the new Touch-bar Macbook Pro. I was *highly* disappointed to see that I was getting stuck with another AMD GPU because I just *knew* you guys wouldn't issue *any* Windows driver updates for it. I had hoped against hope that maybe, *just maybe* in the 4 years since I last had an AMD GPU in my MacBook Pro you guys were actually doing a better job supporting your Windows-on-Mac users with frequent driver updates. Then I read this:

       

      Radeon Pro 400 drivers for windows

       

      Nope! Zero updates for us! No drivers for you!

       

      Ray, come on man, seriously?!! My last MacBook Pro had an NVIDIA GPU in it and NVIDIA was *constantly* delivering updated and game-optimized video drivers on the *WINDOWS* side. Yes its true, *APPLE* has a closed ecosystem that prevents you from delivering updated drivers *** for macOS *** but (as NVIDIA clearly demonstrated with my last MacBook) this is not true on the WINDOWS side!!! In the 4 years I owned my last MacBook NVIDIA provided driver updates for the Windows install on my Boot Camp partition on an almost monthly basis! They supported Windows 7, 8.1 and 10!!! In fact there was even a new driver that got issued the last day I used that MacBook! I get my new MacBook, install Windows and get *zilch* from you guys! In fact I hear you guys recently released a major update to your Crimson platform the very DAY I get my new MacBook, I try to install it and it refuses by telling me my device is "not supported"! So here I am stuck in a time-warp because you guys are too lazy or too scared of apple to allow me to update my Windows drivers!

       

      Adding insult to injury it seems my only option to update my drivers is to rely on some person who hacks the installer to make it work under boot camp!!!! So clearly the issue is logistical (not technical). I mean just look at this:

       

      BootcampDrivers.com

       

      What a load of baloney!  I can't believe some random "hacker dude" with a website is my only recourse just to update the Windows drivers for the AMD GPU on my MacBook! That's downright embarrassing! Way to go AMD!! I guess my only option is to hope that the next MacBook refresh switches back to NVIDIA GPUs so I can kick you guys back to the curb again. As long as this is your stance on supporting users who purchased products that include your GPUs you can count on me doing everything I can to avoid purchasing anything with an AMD GPU in it. I'll also encourage anyone else in the market to buy NVIDIA over you guys as well. I realize I'm ranting a little but I am just very *very* disappointed that AMD is *still* taking this stance with MacBook Pro users. I realize that there are nuances to your relationship with Apple that I may not be aware of, but if NVIDIA can find a way to deliver updates for MacBooks *surely* AMD can as well. I can only conclude that AMD is *choosing* not to support MacBook users and that's sad because we are your customers too (albeit indirectly). We deserve the same driver updates as everyone else who purchased an AMD GPU!

       

      Please change your stance on this and start issuing updates for us as well!

        • Re: Another MacBook with an AMD GPU and zero Windows driver support from you guys...
          ray_m

          On the contrary, even Bootcamp drivers need approval from Apple.

            • Re: Another MacBook with an AMD GPU and zero Windows driver support from you guys...
              jorge_rui

              Hi Mr. Ray,

               

              I have a 2014 MacBook Pro, and I can assure you that I can go to Nvidia site and download the driver for my discreet video card. And have done that from day one until the present, without any issue.

              As far I can remember, apple didn't updated the Nvidia  video card drivers not even once.

               

              AMD just need to put the drivers on her site to download, that's water clear. If that isn't the case, then I have only one exit, and that's return the computer, since I don't have enterprise drivers on windows, and I've bought this machine  (MacBook Pro 2016 with a Radeon Pro 460)for the PRO on the RADEON brand.

              2 of 3 people found this helpful
              • Re: Another MacBook with an AMD GPU and zero Windows driver support from you guys...
                zeusabj

                Okay Ray, your response is (quite frankly) a little insulting. You're clearly a smart guy I think you know *exactly* what I meant in my initial post and are choosing "play dumb" a bit and respond with the "its Apple's fault" excuse as a way of trying to "prove me wrong" or appear "clever". I get it, you work for AMD you don't want to make your boss mad so you want to punch holes in my initial post. Thankfully Jorge chimed in to back me up, and he (clearly) got what I was saying. So in the interest I'll of moving this discussion forward I'll pretend like you really didn't "get" what I was saying and we'll play this patronizing game where I "clarify":

                 

                Hi Ray!

                 

                Thanks for responding to my post. Yes, I understand that the unified Bootcamp driver package that is downloaded directly from Apple when you install Windows for the first time on a Mac is a fixed driver set that is curated by Apple. While I don't know the ins and outs of getting an AMD driver updated in that package I assume there is some sort of submission/approval process that AMD has to follow. What I am referring to is the driver packages that AMD makes available for download in their website here:

                 

                Download Drivers

                 

                These driver installers do not work under Windows on a Mac using Bootcamp. You have a page dedicated to Bootcamp drivers here:

                 

                Apple Boot Camp Software Graphics Drivers

                 

                But it has not been updated since April of 2016. AMD is deliberately engineering the driver packages they post on their website to not work with Macs that run Windows under Bootcamp. I am asking AMD to stop doing this and citing NVIDIA as a company that allows Mac users to install the updated driver packages they post on their website on their Macs. Clearly sites like this prove it is possible:

                 

                BootcampDrivers.com

                 

                So one can only conclude that AMD is *choosing* to deny updates to Mac users running Windows. I paid a lot for this computer and I also paid extra for the higher-end AMD GPU! I am a customer of AMD who paid to support your products! I mean when you run Bootcamp its just (literally) just an AMD GPU running under Windows at that point like any other. Why shouldn't this be allowed to work for us?

                2 of 3 people found this helpful
                  • Re: Another MacBook with an AMD GPU and zero Windows driver support from you guys...
                    matd2100

                    "AMD is deliberately engineering the driver packages they post on their website to not work with Macs that run Windows under Bootcamp."

                     

                    This is technically not true. If you simply remove the blacklist code for mac graphics cards, many will still not work with AMD's PC drivers. The same is now true with the MacPro's FirePro cards (since around the time Vulkan was initially introduced). Turns out that the Mac cards in the iMac and Macbook Pro w/ TB are customized versions of the equivalent PC cards and therefore require further modification of the drivers in order to work correctly.

                      • Re: Another MacBook with an AMD GPU and zero Windows driver support from you guys...
                        zeusabj

                        So they should "modify" them to work with my card! I paid for it! Frankly this is no excuse. They should support *all* their customers. NVIDIA does.

                        • Re: Another MacBook with an AMD GPU and zero Windows driver support from you guys...
                          spnorth

                          I would like to conquer with the earlier posts.  Very much enjoyed the previous Nvidia MacBook Pro because the drivers were updated monthly on the Windows side.  Was looking forward to the next MacBook Pro powerhouse and purchased on day 1.  Now I have a $3400 machine with the heart of a gaming machine, but no current support from AMD.  I've always trusted AMD in the past and I hope you look at your processes to include these new video cards in your monthly updates.

                          1 of 2 people found this helpful
                            • Re: Another MacBook with an AMD GPU and zero Windows driver support from you guys...
                              zeusabj

                              *THANK YOU* for your support SPNorth!

                               

                              This is just beyond stupid. I already have two games telling me my AMD drivers are out of date BUT I CAN'T UPDATE THEM!!!! This is wildly idiotic! What did I even buy this thing for?! I literally can't believe what a waste of money this was. What am I supposed to do when applications tell me I need driver updates but I cant get them?! Just be screwed?! I actually tried the drivers on BootcampDrivers.com but wound up rolling back to the older BootCamp driver because it seemed so "hacky" I was concerned about it breaking something. This is *incredibly* annoying. All I want is the same Windows driver support for my GPU that everyone else who buys an AMD GPU gets. Why in the world is that so much to ask?

                                • Re: Another MacBook with an AMD GPU and zero Windows driver support from you guys...
                                  matd2100

                                  I'm not sure why you think my modified drivers are too 'hacky' zeusabj. They are standard AMD drivers with the MacBook Pro settings applied to them in exactly the same way as the official Apple-AMD drivers. They provide all the benefits of the equivalent AMD PC driver and it even fixes the LG ultrafine 5k issues that people are reporting with the standard Apple-AMD drivers, you could argue that rather than it breaking anything it only fixes things that's wrong initially with the official drivers. The only exception to this is the Gaming edition driver which yes has more tweaks embedded within but the standard modded drivers are also available.

                                    • Re: Another MacBook with an AMD GPU and zero Windows driver support from you guys...
                                      zeusabj

                                      Hey Matd2100,

                                       

                                      I'm assuming you are responsible for BootcampDrivers.com. I apologize, I can see where some of my comments could be perceived as an attack on what you do. I assure you that was not my intention. What you are doing is a real service. You see whats happening here and you are trying to help and (from the bottom of my heart) thank you. People like you are what makes the internet great. Something doesn't work, vendor wont fix it, hey don't worry I'll take that on myself. I appreciate you for taking it upon yourself to do something like that on your own. What i'm saying is, you shouldn't have to do that. AMD should just provide us with same support as everyone else that buys one of their products.

                                       

                                      As for your drivers, I'm sorry if my "hacky" description sounded insulting to you. You are obviously a very intelligent person who does good work. When i tried to install the drivers from your site it actually messed up the resolution on my own LG UltraFine 5K display and I was unable to get it working at higher resolutions without rolling back to the previous "Bootcamp authorized" driver. This is probably my fault (not yours) as I had issues with the part of your instructions that involved the installation of a certificate. It just made me more angry at AMD and I felt like posting my experience. I may give your driver pack another go at some point because it looks like I may have no other alternative.

                                        • Re: Another MacBook with an AMD GPU and zero Windows driver support from you guys...
                                          matd2100

                                          Hey dude no problem, I didnt read that like it was an attack so don't worry, I was just curious as to why you ended up uninstalling when most other people had reported that they improved things/fixed things for them . If you have issues with any part of installation I really recommend you get in touch with me first as I am always happy to help you guys out.

                                          1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                            • Re: Another MacBook with an AMD GPU and zero Windows driver support from you guys...
                                              zeusabj

                                              And I do appreciate your clear willingness to help. I just don't understand why we can't get that from AMD. You shouldn't have to be the one to provide support for their products and you should also be careful because if they decide they don't like what you are doing they might very well try to sue you for your efforts! This is just a subject I am very passionate about. I know I'm coming across as an angry person, but I it just reached the point where I just had to say something. This forum post was how I chose to do that. I guess I'll have no choice but to rely on you if I expect to upgrade my drivers. Maybe I will be in touch at some point.

                                               

                                              Thank you MATD2100!

                              • Re: Another MacBook with an AMD GPU and zero Windows driver support from you guys...
                                jorge_rui

                                Regarding an email with this same object I've got this reply from amd:

                                 

                                "Dear Jorge,

                                Your service request : SR #{ticketno:[XXXXXXXX]} has been reviewed and updated.

                                Response and Service Request History:

                                The AMD update tool only works for Desktop products in Windows, and it does not work for BootCamp, and also doesn't work for Workstation products such as the Radeon Pro or the FirePro.  when you run it on unsupported Operating system, it will either tell you that there are no drivers or it may lead you to the wrong drivers.

                                to get the latest BootCamp drivers for your MacBook Pro with AMD Radeon Pro 460, please go to http://www.amd.com/drivers
                                www.amd.com/drivers and download the latest software for your system by filling out the appropriate drop-down menus, IE

                                - Step 1: Mac Products
                                - Step 2: Apple BootCamp
                                - Step 3: Select your laptop
                                - Step 4: Select your OS
                                - Step 5 Click Display Results.

                                If you encounter any issues, please visit Apple BootCamp support site at https://support.apple.com/boot-camp
                                support.apple.com/boot-camp for additional support

                                If you have any questions or concerns, if the problems remain or if new problems arise, please do not hesitate to reply to this email directly and I will try to provide any additional information that you may require.

                                Please be advised that this service request will be permanently closed if you do not reply within 10 days. If more time is needed to respond to my e-mail above, please let me know and I will ensure that this service request remains open for you.

                                In order to update this service request, please respond, leaving the service request reference intact.

                                Best regards,

                                AMD Global Customer Care"

                                ----------------------

                                My awaser to this after testing the procedure:

                                 

                                "Dear Sir,

                                I’ve proceeded has you suggested on last email.
                                - The driver available for my system (windows 10 64bit) Radeon Pro version is so old that windows cannot recognize it has suitable for my graphic card.
                                I’ve take all precautions, making a clean uninstall of the previous driver before trying to install the version available on:  http://www.amd.com/drivers
                                www.amd.com/drivers has suggested on last email… But after installing the driver from AMD site, the system show the display driver, as a generic microsoft driver display driver !

                                I’m sorry to say this, but it seems that AMD is playing with Professional costumers who bought this computer to earn there living (this is my case), and bought it precisely to have a CAD capable graphic card. The Radeon Pro was presented has a professional GPU that will take the place of the FirePro, isn’t it? But where can I find that support?

                                I have only a couple of days to decide to return this 3000+ euros machine and buy a CAD workstation with a Nvidia Quadro that I’m sure that will come with professional grade drivers. The primary reason for buying this MacBook Pro was AMD Radeon Pro, a Professional Card that does not have enterprise support?!

                                I really wan’t to give AMD a change, but you are not making it easy.

                                If AMD care about there products will quicly discover that many costumers feel that there were deceived, just like me. And that is starting to show on the Web, just take a look on Reddit for examples, on in the major blogs of apple products.

                                Informing a professional consumer about a solution to there problem this way, only for the consumer to find out that the solution isn’t there, is a disrespect for someone work, witch is not tolerable by any means.

                                I only hope this email reaches someone with the capacity to make a difference.

                                Best regards,
                                Jorge Rui

                                "

                                 

                                1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                  • Re: Another MacBook with an AMD GPU and zero Windows driver support from you guys...
                                    zeusabj

                                    Well Jorge, thanks for the show of support. It just looks like we are flat screwed, AMD could care less for us so i won't even bother posting nay more responses here. We clearly aren't worthy of their support. I'm just sorry it took me two MacBook purchases to figure this out. Very very disappointing. On the plus side, Apple appears to have plans to revamp the TouchBar Macs with Kaby Lake CPU's and 32GB RAM later his year. Hopefully they will ad an NVIDIA GPU option and I can kick AMD to the curb once more. I'll just have to get in the habit of being more patient and waiting for MacBooks with NVIDIA GPUs so I can stick with a company that cares about supporting its Mac user base. What a waste of money. I can't believe I paid extra for this 460 GPU and zero updates for me. I'm really going to try my hardest to never buy another AMD product ever again if this is their attitude.

                                     

                                    Way to fail AMD!

                                  • Re: Another MacBook with an AMD GPU and zero Windows driver support from you guys...
                                    waltc

                                    On counterpoint, I've been running ATi/AMD GPUS on Windows boxes since 2002, and the number of major problems I can recall is so small I'd have to guess and say maybe,,,three, four?....;)  At any rate here are a few facts that Mac buyers don't seem to understand (well, a few of them)...

                                     

                                    1) They don't seem to to understand that Apple does not in any way support Windows

                                     

                                    2) Bootcamp is an Apple product, not a Microsoft product, and it is *Apple* (not Microsoft or AMD) which decides what *device drivers* go into Bootcamp

                                     

                                    3) A Mac running Bootcamp & Windows is not "the same thing"  as a non-Mac running Windows...(duh...;))

                                     

                                    So, if someone buys a Mac because he wants to run Windows and he wants the best support possible for his devices under Windows, then I'd conclude he has wasted his money.  I think it is pretty much that simple.  Tell you what, why don't you reverse your angst and send it to Apple and see what Apple says about it.  When you you buy a Mac you are *Apple's* customer, btw.  Ask *Apple* why it doesn't release updated AMD drivers for its Bootcamp support--the answer is that Apple simply doesn't want to pay AMD for continued driver development--and, yes, Apple pays for the Windows drivers just like it pays for the hardware it buys and puts into a Mac.  Last, Apple's own OpenGL drivers for OS X stink, too, at least for OpenGL gaming...and are way behind the development curve compared with their Windows counterparts.  Basically, it boils down to this: if you want the latest and greatest in hardware and software *do not* buy a Mac--IMO, of course. You may not have heard, but years ago Apple removed the word "computer" from its company name and the company has since become a cell-phone company (in case for some reason you missed it.)  You have a bone to pick with Apple--best get to picking it if you'd like to see something done about, imo.  Ranting at AMD for Apple's faults is worthless...just my two cents.

                                      • Re: Another MacBook with an AMD GPU and zero Windows driver support from you guys...
                                        matd2100

                                        It's titfortat. AMD could quite easily incorporate compatibility into generic PC drivers if they wanted to without conflicting with PC cards. Once they are in there officially each subsequent update requires very little tweaking in order to make it work - and it can be easily automated with a python script (which is what I do). As you say, Apple don't support Windows on Mac so they only provide barebones compatibility. For a company that strives to "make the best products we [it] possibly can" in the words of Tim Cook they are definitely falling short on this front.

                                         

                                        Overall yes I do blame Apple but AMD obviously do not feel obliged to provide support either (whether Apple pay them for the drivers or not, they've paid to use their cards so surely more than just basic support alone is not a lot to ask?).

                                         

                                        Well whatever, because AMD won't even assist me with my modifications that I do to make it work in bootcamp (they won't test them nor provide advice etc. because they don't like supporting mods of the driver). Have they never heard of open source?

                                        • Re: Another MacBook with an AMD GPU and zero Windows driver support from you guys...
                                          zeusabj

                                          You are missing the point WaltC, this thread is not about Apple updating its bootcamp drivers every time AMD issues an update. Its about AMD including Windows driver support for AMD GPUs running under Windows on a a Mac. It doesn't matter if its running under bootcamp, Windows is Windows. You load Windows on a Mac and it effectively becomes a Windows device. All I'm asking for is driver support for an AMD product running on a Windows device. I have owned many Apple products and I fully understand that Apple offers very little support for Windows running on a Mac but *third party vendors can and do*.

                                           

                                          Your counter argument that I try to "change Apple" to get more Windows support doesn't really hold up. Take printers for instance. A printer vendor may choose not to issue a driver for MacOS but they do issue one for Windows. I can then load Windows on my MacBook, load the Windows Driver (like I'd expect to be able to do for any device with Windows support from the vendor) and then use my printer. I don't need to petition Apple to add a Windows printer driver to bootcamp just like I shouldn't have to ask them to update video drivers in bootcamp. Bootcamp drivers are a BASELINE. As a power user under Windows I an choose to install vendor provided drivers to get more features.

                                           

                                          As I have pointed out above NVIDIA is already doing this!