49 Replies Latest reply on Mar 8, 2017 1:18 AM by steelbizkit

    If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?

    nec_v20

      I would really like to know how many of you think you may be able to run the OS of your choice on the new Zen platform and apart from being informed by the statement above feel that they have been honestly informed by AMD with regard to their policy with regard to over 60% of Windows users who have not adopted Windows 10 as a platform of their choice, even though Microsoft did everything in their power to force it upon them.

       

      Windows 7 has become a workaholic whereas Windows 10, after over one and a half years is still is a crashoholic.

       

      If I were to compare it to equivalent idiocy then it would be to the person at Samsung who thought that making the back of the Note 5 (which I have encased in an Otter Box Defender case) out of glass which will shatter if dropped from even a two foot hight onto a hard surface.

        • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
          elpuertorro

          GOOD!!!
          People need to move on! Win10 brings forward NEW TECH as Zen does like for example the self encryption on the CPU which win 7 can't manage, I know a lot of people have problems with change, but you need to let it go, win 7 is/was great but a least for me win 10 is better, as long as you do a fresh install or Fresh after you upgrade that is!
          Why stay stuck in the past? Does it make sense for M$ to have 3 teams working and splitting resources to maintain 3 different OS's or put all the efforts in only 1 so it can be the best it can be? you can't win them all.

           

          As in crashoholic, well I can say that so far not 1 crash on any of my 3 win10 machines and 2 of those are gaming rigs and updated them to win 10 the same day it was out, not to mention 1 is still under the insider program and no crashes so far. So how about we stop living in the past and move forward to today looking at the future?

          You like gaming on DX11 good, so do I, but I love the DX12 advancements in the new games which only win 10 offers better.

          Can you imagine if AMD used that same mentality? we would not have 400 series because well it's not compatible with neither 300 nor 200 series for crossfire like the old ones, so hey we should ask AMD to keep using old tech so we can have that back right?
          Or maybe even not make ZEN with self encryption onboard on the CPU for extra security as it will use a new socket not backwards compatible with AM3 or AM3+ nor will it be able to use good old DDR3 and now we have to get up to date with the rest of the tech world and use DDR4!! how dare they do that right?
          Or why make the advancement in GPU mem to create HBM when good old DDR5 is good?
          Hell why buy a 2k @144Hz monitor when we can have the trusted old 60hz @1080p?

           

          Remember in life you can't please everyone all the time, but you can keep moving FORWARD to make the best of it for YOU!

          2 of 8 people found this helpful
          • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
            adr_tech

            Although I'm surprised, it doesn't really affect me, I will still be getting Zen

             

            But it seems strange for hardware to have a OS requirement. It's like saying that my 8370 doesn't support linux so I cant run linux on my PC. I don't see how a hardware dev might be able to do that... Then again I am no hardware nor software engineer. 

            1 of 2 people found this helpful
            • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
              elpuertorro

              dripandrip was that for me? and if it was source for what the info on the new self encription on the CPU? if it's that you should find it here on AMD with what ever info they have for Zen as it's not a secret and they said it, I can probably look for a source later on today if you need it but i'm sure you can also find it on wccftech and the likes of tech sites. Update found something even better the dev white paper here you go: http://amd-dev.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wordpress/media/2013/12/AMD_Memory_Encryption_Whitepaper_v7-Public.pdf

              2 of 2 people found this helpful
              • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
                darkwolfca

                I have know about zen requiring windows 10 and think its great people should not expect newer stuff to always work with aging technology which windows 7 is, all new intel Chips will require windows 10 as well so it don't matter who you are a fan of you will have to move on to windows 10 if you want the newest tech. a lot of people won't like this but unfortunately that's the same with all tech. I honestly have very few issues with windows 10 is it far superior to 7 in my opinion . I am looking forward to Zen and AM4  and will be upgrading both mine and the wifes to zen.

                1 of 4 people found this helpful
                  • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
                    dripandrip

                    I don't have an issue with it aside from the fact that if you didn't update to windows 10 in the time frame then you have to drop $120 on a new OS or use other means to get the OS. That's something I never really liked about Windows. You shouldn't have to pay $100 every couple years for their new OS.

                     

                    One of the things I like about Apple and Google, they don't charge you to update your OS

                     

                    The family pc has windows 10 and I have no problem with the UI. I just wont have it on my new pc build(my brothers friend has a spare windows 7 key I can use)

                    1 of 2 people found this helpful
                    • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
                      seven7

                      A friend of mine told me tonight that he finds Windows 10 a pain and has decided to go back to Windows 7.  Another friend of mine found that a W10 update broke his Internet connection.  How do you trouble shoot that when you can't get online?  I actually bought a copy of W10 but couldn't bring myself to install it, preferring to stay with W7 and multiboot Linux.  Now, if Microsoft made a bare bones version of W10, minus all the dazzle and fripperies, minus the spying and targeted adds, and be able to easily uncheck what you don't want to run and have a more basic intuitive interface without those #$%&*! tiles, and stop making patches that break things, I might reconsider.  But I have little confidence in Microsoft's reliability now.  People have voted Windows 7 the best operating system MS has ever made.  It wouldn't take much to make W7 compatible with DX12 and the new hardware with a small service pack.

                      1 of 1 people found this helpful
                    • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
                      jamesc359

                      I'm not really surprised, nor am I overly heart broken by this news. If you're going to drop some serious cash to buy the newest processor with all the latest bells and whistles you really shouldn't be thinking about [re]using what will be an almost 8 year old operating system anyways. It's also important to remember this isn't AMD's choice, they are simply following the guidelines that Microsoft has put in place.

                      1 of 2 people found this helpful
                      • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
                        oregon

                        I already knew about this requirement, and think it is a good one. I left Windows 7 behind a long time ago, on multiple machines, and haven't looked back. Windows 10 is far superior in my opinion, and I haven't had any serious issues with it. I think it important to keep in mind, for myself at least, that I used Windows 7 for many years, and it was far from perfect. I had more issues with it than I have had with 10. So yes, I have known about this for a long time, and think it is fine. Looking forward to Zen!

                        • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
                          theriaya

                          I already run Windows 10 on my computers so this doesn't effect me in any way.

                          • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
                            eidairaman1

                            MS continues to break their Latest OS, reminds me how much of a Pile of garbage Vista was. I skipped Vista on the way to 7 and it Works Flawlessly.

                            • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
                              feverstriker

                              Besides the occasional erroneous update, like Anniversary Update, Windows 10 has actually been performing pretty well. Win7 was great, I sat on that OS as long as I could and even after I purchased a digital copy of Win8, I left it alone and ran another copy of Win7 because I couldn't stand it.

                              I thought the same thing could happen to Win10 but I was pleasantly surprised when it actually ran relatively well.

                              Now if only I could get Dropbox to stop freezing my start bar for like 2 minutes on startup, that would be great.

                              1 of 2 people found this helpful
                              • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
                                zealotki11er

                                Sad that i cant run iOS 1.0 on my brand new iPhone. Those criminals.

                                4 of 6 people found this helpful
                                • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
                                  crazycarl

                                  Here is a program that makes it easy to stop any of the advertising or tracking within Windows 10. That is the one reason I hate it. https://www.safer-networking.org/spybot-anti-beacon/

                                  1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                  • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
                                    dimz1867

                                    The change is mandated by Microsoft though, not AMD, and it applies both to Zen and upcoming Intel Core i3/i5/i7 7xxx series. Just like you wouldn't expect Windows 98 to run on today's system, they're(MS) not obliged to forever support consumers for free when they have a newer OS out there, nor are their resources limitless - despite MS's size as a company. Those that want support on older versions and can't do otherwise will have to buy paid support, the rest will have to either upgrade or get really good protection and hope it does its job.

                                    4 of 4 people found this helpful
                                    • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
                                      alexkywalker

                                      I think the biggest point people are missing with Window 10 is that like Mac OS X, we live in an Operating-System-as-a-Service world. We no longer have to go buy boxed OS'es, all we need to do is push "update" and then you get the latest.

                                       

                                      The only "problem" with this -if you want to call it that- is that manufacturers have to keep up with making drivers for these constant releases.

                                       

                                      We live in an agile world, and I'd suggest if you are using peripherals from a manufacturer that can't keep up, then move on. My biggest gripe with Windows 10 has been with NVidia's graphics drivers. Every time I update Windows I have graphics issues on my old desktop. But since I switched to AMD GPUs I have had a rather more pleasant experience with my OS/Drivers updating experience.

                                       

                                      The same can be said about Razer Synapse, Corsair Utilities, Logitech Gaming Software, or any non-gaming drivers. You snooze, you crash :-(

                                      • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
                                        icemyth

                                        I had plans to get Ryzen and new Rx 480 GPU before I know about Windows 10 thing. But after I known that I decided to:

                                        1- Buy Ryzen for research goals and will install Linux instead of Windows

                                        2- Forget about the RX and just use my R7 360 on my new PC.

                                        3- For gaming will buy PS4 or XBox, depend on what games I want to play.

                                         

                                        I don't like Win10, actually I hate it. I hate a company to spy on every single thing I do on my OWN machine, as Win 10 is pointless without touch screen,

                                        3 of 3 people found this helpful
                                        • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
                                          ajlueke

                                          It really makes sense from AMDs perspective to only support Windows 10 in Ryzen at launch.  To understand why, read on as we delve into the exciting world of APIs (Application Programming Interface).

                                           

                                          DX11 and DX12 aren't really different in terms of hardware features, but differ more in the way the API shifts the workload between CPU, GPU and the driver.   An over simplification is that DX12 vs DX11 takes advantage of features in modern CPUs and GPUs and shifts the workload around, primarily on the CPU side of things.  In DX11 and prior versions, the driver handled most of the synchronization and resource management.  That works great for game developers, because it leaves the task of creating appropriate drivers to the hardware and OS manufacturers.  But the drivers have to work with software and engines from a vast array of developers, meaning they are usually fairly general and not as optimized for hardware as they could be. 

                                           

                                           

                                          DX12 and other low level APIs (Mantle, Vulkan, Metal) take a different approach.  Rather than allow resource management and synchronization to be handled by the driver (and thus CPU), low level APIs are coded directly to the hardware.  The functions commonly associated with the driver previously are now built directly into the game engine.  This down side, is that the developer has to do the hard work building the code into the engine.  There also would be compatibility issues with different hardware, but on the plus side, most modern gaming systems use similar hardware.  A game engine written for Xbox One or PS4 hardware will easily transfer between them as they have similar AMD based x86 hardware.  That engine will work well with PC hardware as well, as Intel processors support many of the same instruction sets supported by AMD.

                                           

                                           

                                          The problem on PCs is the DX12 API then has to communicate with the WDDM (Windows Display Driver Model), the two really go hand in hand.  The WDDM 2.0 included in Windows 10 supports a lot of the in engine features of the low level APIs.  The older WDDM versions on Windows 7 and 8 are still programmed to do a lot of that overhead work.  If you use them with a engine designed for DX12 much of the work will be redundant, eliminating any performance gains, or making the game perform even worse than had the game been coded for DX11.  The WDDM overhaul in Windows 10 was the largest since the kernel was rewritten with Windows Vista.  So naturally Microsoft doesn't want to do that and port it to Windows 7, since they already did the work and that is a large part of what makes Windows 10 "Windows 10".

                                           

                                          However, slow uptake of the new operating system has lead to a fragmentation among developers.  Since the majority of PC gamers are still on Windows 7/8, developers write their code assuming the generic driver level resource management.  They then create DX12 and console ports that try to eliminate the redundant workloads on the DX12 Windows 10 systems.  The fractured environment adds a lot of extra work for developers and prevents moderns CPU and GPUs from performing as well as they could have with game engines designed specifically f a low level API.   

                                           

                                           

                                           

                                          The solution?  Enter Vulkan.  This low level API designed by the OpenGL group gives a lot of the same low level control of hardware directly in engine as DX12, but because it wasn't written by Microsoft, it isn't tied to the WDDM.  That means engines built with Vulkan can perform the same on Linux, Windows 7, Windows 10, you name it.  Microsoft of course, is determined to head off a Vulkan future as it undermines the unified platform Microsoft seeks to build.  The fix is to eliminate the DX11 machines.  They attempted to do this at first by offering Windows 10 as a free upgrade, and now by getting AMD and Intel to support only Windows 10 with Ryzen and Kaby Lake respectively, the push to Windows 10 will likely be stronger.  This is advantageous for the hardware manufacturers as well.  As the new API structure greatly reduces CPU overhead in gaming, AMD and Intel CPUs will post better numbers in benchmarks, especially if you guarantee they are only running on DX12 systems.  AMD and Intel could add legacy Windows support later, once all the CPU performance reviews are over and done with.

                                           

                                           

                                          Overall, I think this is a good thing.  It will allow developers to build game engines with low level hardware control that truly take advantage of the DX12 and WDDM 2.0 model.  The performance of all of our existing hardware will only improve, the only thing holding us back is the legacy OS and it's outdated WDDM 1.x.  As for the other points about Windows 10, they don't really ring true for me.  I haven't really had any crashes with Windows 10, at least not any more than any other addition.  Largely, I have found every version of Windows since Vista to be highly similar.  Yes, the new kernel written for Vista caused a ton of hardware to be unsupported by legacy XP drivers.  But by the time Windows 7 launched in 2009, I didn't really see a difference between that and Vista that I had previously been running.  Also, Windows 8 added the start screen to bring touch screen support to the same OS.  While it may have been jarring to load directly into the start screen, a simple click of the desktop button loaded the familiar Windows 7 style desktop.  Sure the start button was gone, but when you right click where it used to be all the same options were available.

                                           

                                           

                                          There are minor things with Windows 10.  The fact that games purchased from the store create a ghost copy of the install when the update is poor design.  You essentially need to have as much available free space on your drive as you have installed games.  They have a long way to go to rival Steam.  The removal of Windows Media Center was also awful.  Made more so by the fact that the Windows DVD Player that replaced it doesn't even work properly.  Minor quirks aside, I spent no small amount on the AMD hardware in my rig, and I would like game developers to utilize my hardware to maximum effect.  The fact that it isn't happening because many users are remaining on legacy OS's is disappointing.  Especially since the reasoning appears to be the widely debunked myth that Windows 10 spies on everything you do.  See below.  I will likely update to Ryzen when it launches, and since I already run Windows 10, I'll be just fine.

                                           

                                          No, Microsoft is not spying on you with Windows 10 | ZDNet 

                                            • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
                                              steelbizkit

                                              If Windows 10 wasn't so clunky to use without touch, or so demanding with Cortana. Along with a few other personal dislikes I might have left win7 for it. 8.0 and 8.1 was complete fail except for mobile devices which is why win9 was scrapped. But 10 is to much like it for my personal taste and I feel like its the same with other "legacy" users.

                                               

                                               

                                              For that matter my work computers still run winXP.  Not by my choice though.

                                                • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
                                                  nec_v20

                                                  The thing is that even after one and a half years of Win10 only one third of Windows users have it installed.

                                                   

                                                  With Win 7 the overwhelming number of Windows users moved to the platform almost immediately - and had to pay for the privilege.

                                                   

                                                  So the market has effectively spoken with regard to Win 10, and they have done so with a one finger salute.

                                                  1 of 2 people found this helpful
                                                    • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
                                                      ajlueke

                                                      I know it is popular these days to just say things without supporting them in anyway, but I will refrain from giving in to popular trends.

                                                       

                                                      "With Win 7 the overwhelming number of Windows users moved to the platform almost immediately".  Actually, that isn't true.  Windows 7 became these most installed Windows operating system according to Net Applications in August of 2012.  Windows 7 overtakes XP as Mac OS X passes Vista - CNET

                                                       

                                                      That was the first time Windows 7 eclipsed Windows XP according to Net Applications metrics.  So it took almost three years after the retail release for Windows 7 to eclipse XP.  Interestingly, Windows 7 passed the 25% mark in April of 2011, approximately 18 months after retail  launch.

                                                       

                                                      So here we are, 18 months after the launch of Windows 10, and according to Net Applications Windows 10 is at 24.36% as of December 2016  Market share for mobile, browsers, operating systems and search engines | NetMarketShare .  That is almost identical to the rate at which Windows 7 gained market share.  If the trend holds Windows 10 will pass Windows 7 in May of 2018.

                                                       

                                                      "So the market has effectively spoken with regard to Win 10, and they have done so with a one finger salute.".  Not really true.  Windows 10 seems to be getting picked up just as fast as Windows 7.  You could argue that in spite of the free upgrade and marketing, Windows 10 is only doing as well as Windows 7, not better.  Hence the Kaby Lake and Ryzen support.  Microsoft is definately trying to speed things up.

                                                      2 of 3 people found this helpful
                                                        • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
                                                          red5

                                                          Microsoft forced and tricked people into upgrading to Windows 10. Novice users ended up with a totally different system without even knowing what happened. I would say any 'adoption' rates are extremely unreliable. I'm sure you all know people who called you asking you to fix their computer only to find out that the Windows 10 upgrade was pushed to their system. I would have a hard time believing I'm the only person who has seen this. Actually I know for a fact it's common because I work at an IT company that does managed services and they've had several issues with it. So the adoption rates of Win7 and Win10 are in no way apples-to-apples.

                                                          1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                            • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
                                                              ajlueke

                                                              I can understand that sentiment, but the numbers don't indicate users switching back from forced upgraded machines.  The OS has trended pretty much identically with Windows 7 and there is no evidence to indicate that will change.  I think as I said before, we will likely see Windows 10 as the predominant Windows OS in early 2018.  My company is currently still on Windows 7, but the process has begun to switch the entire enterprise over to Windows 10.  As new client machines are purchase from the preferred vendor (HP in this case) the client machines comes with Windows 10 and 7th generation Intel Processors.  Since Intel doesn't recommend anything other than Windows 10 for 7th generation Intel, HP ships all new models that way.  To maintain consistency across the enterprise, my company will in turn shift everything over to Windows 10 this year.  So Microsoft's strategy is working, you can expect most major companies to follow suit for similar reasons, and the OS adoption rate will only climb.

                                                               

                                                               

                                                              Most private users just buy ready made machines from Best Buy which will already have Windows 10 loaded on them.  For those of us building custom machines things are a little bit different.  But we make up the vast minority of PC users, and thus can't expect Microsoft to cater to our market.

                                                               

                                                              However, I personally upgraded both my machines, an FX-8350 based primary gaming and video server, and a smaller A10-7850K Kaveri based client PC for media consumption to Windows 10 when the upgrade became available and haven't looked back (RIP Infinitv 4 ).  I haven't had any crashes or any unusual behavior from Windows 10.  I have used the taskbar to pin apps since that feature was introduced in Vista.  As such, the way I use the OS hasn't really changed since Vista.  Windows Vista, 7, 8, 8.1 and 10 all have similar desktop UIs.  Yes, you loaded into the start screen in Windows 8, and that was a little jarring.  But just clicking the desktop button loaded the old familiar Windows 7 desktop. 

                                                               

                                                               

                                                              That being said, I do have some experience with the issues you are talking about.  I also built a couple PCs for my elderly parents to use a while back.  One is a desktop they use to Skype with the grandkids and access the web.  I upgraded this PC to Windows 10 as well and they have had no issues.  This PC is based off a DDR2 Phenom II 940 I purchased in 2009.  Still runs just fine.

                                                               

                                                              The second PC was built to store and playback my parents collection of older (1930s-1950s) movies.  Most of these are played back from rips of the disk.  They used Windows Media Center for the playback, and liked that quite a bit.  The system is a A8-3850 Llano based system that is also humming along nicely.  Eventually they received some messages about Windows auto updating to Windows 10 and of course, they didn't opt out.  So the update just happened on its own, and of course Windows Media Center was removed.  Now Microsoft did replace it with Windows DVD player, but I have found that software to be virtually unusable.  The problem was resolved by installing a third party software I had a key for (PowerDVD) and they have been able to play movies fine ever since.  But I do see how that process is problematic, since most novice users as you mentioned fail to opt out, and probably aren't aware that features they use (Media Center in this case) won't be accessible if they do upgrade.  They are then left with a PC that no longer does what they want it too.  After PowerDVD was installed they liked that enough and decided not to switch back.

                                                               

                                                               

                                                              Does the fact they ignore a small market segment make me hate Microsoft?  No, they felt not many users utilized Media Center and thus those that were impacted by it's removal were a minimal market segment.  My parents likely would of had a harder time without my help, but I can understand why Microsoft decided what they did.  They have an agenda (Whether the agenda benefits anyone may be a topic for a separate discussion) for what they want their OS to be and how they want it to work with other devices.  Holding up that agenda to accommodate a few users isn't going to happen.  But I do understand why such behavior would stoke the ire of the enthusiast community.

                                                      • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
                                                        nec_v20

                                                        I have seen the comparison between DX11 and DX12 and in performance and DX12 comes out a piss-poor second. And there is no excuse for it, so don't give me any twaddle about "oh it's new and it will have some problems". It is not new, it has been around for developers for four years now and after all that time it has a craptastic performance - seems to be par for the course for M$ these days.

                                                         

                                                        Vulkan has not been around all that long but as opposed to DX12 it actually surpasses DX11 in performance.

                                                         

                                                        Now you personally might like the XBOX One version of the Windows OS (remember what a great hit the XBOX One was - oh right it was a dismal failure) but most of us and that means over 66% of Windows users (and well over 50% of all Windows Users use Win7) are of the opinion that Micro$haft has gone bonkers and we are not supporting their lunacy (or greed, or snoopiness, or their intrusion).

                                                         

                                                        As far as we are concerned Win10 can go and get stuffed and so can any product which predicates Win10 as an OS for it to be useable. The majority of us are responding with not only a one finger salute but we are also keeping our money in our wallets.

                                                         

                                                        I know better and you seem to know better and unless more of us tell Microsoft where to get off then the insanity will continue.

                                                         

                                                        I mean of course the insanity on the part of Micro$haft AND AMD. With regard to Wintel I think it is a forlorn cause.

                                                          • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
                                                            ajlueke

                                                            "I have seen the comparison between DX11 and DX12 and in performance and DX12 comes out a piss-poor second." 

                                                             

                                                            Actually that really depends on what hardware you have.  Yes, Nvidia does lose performance in a lot of games under direct DX12 or remains at parity.  AMD on the other hand gains performance in virtually every single DX12 implementation.

                                                            Total War: Warhammer DX12 boost for AMD still can't match Nvidia's DX11 performance | PC Gamer

                                                            Since this is an AMD forum, I imagine DX12 is a good thing for most of us

                                                             

                                                            ("remember what a great hit the XBOX One was - oh right it was a dismal failure)"

                                                             

                                                            A failure?  While granted the Xbox One console install base is only half of the PS4, it is however outpacing the Xbox 360 sales in the same time frame after release.  So while the Xbox One isn't doing nearly as well as the PS4, it is the fastest selling console Microsoft has ever made.

                                                            PlayStation 4, Xbox One Outpacing PlayStation 2, Xbox 360 Install Bases - News - www.GameInformer.com 

                                                             

                                                            "I know better and you seem to know better and unless more of us tell Microsoft where to get off then the insanity will continue."  While you do seem to feel strongly about this, I will agree that forced upgrades isn't a great way to go.  Neither are forced updates that make the system restart while you are working on something.  You may be right that more users shouting "Linux" or "Mac" may be required to make Microsoft address those concerns.

                                                            1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                          • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
                                                            colesdav

                                                            Hi

                                                             

                                                            Thank you for your detailed post.

                                                            I guess I will look into upgrading all of my PC's to Windows 10 again.
                                                            Most interesting article you linked to at the end.

                                                            The subtitle asks the following question.

                                                            "The Windows 10 privacy agreement doesn't mean Microsoft is secretly stealing the data from your hard disk. Where do people come up with these crazy ideas?"

                                                             

                                                            In 1 minute I found out.
                                                            Switzerland apparently: Switzerland Pushes Windows 10 to Make Data Processing Transparent | Digital Trends

                                                             

                                                            If you can tell me what the Business Model it is that allows all of these Companies to provide these various "Modern OS's"  to every one for free instead of asking users to purchase a license I would love to know what it is.

                                                             

                                                            Is Microsoft, for example  a charity these days? Do it's developers work for free? I am just wondering.

                                                            I just started thinking about this question recently.

                                                            I guess I will have a look into the License Agreement in detail and have a look to see what is in there.

                                                            It is often so easy to click "Accept" when you install your shiny new OS that you got for free and didn't have to fork out $100's for.

                                                            Never know what you might be signing away though.

                                                             

                                                            Cheers.

                                                              • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
                                                                ajlueke

                                                                Hello!

                                                                 

                                                                I guess the business model is similar to what console manufacturer's have employed for some time.  The companies are not selling you a stand alone piece of software, they are selling you a platform.  Apple did this very well with iOS.  The experience is retained across a host of different devices including music and personal settings.

                                                                 

                                                                By getting consumers to opt in to the platform, they are then more likely to purchase other compatible devices and officially licensed apps from the companies store to maintain synergy across platforms.  This is how they generate their profits, and thus want as many people to buy into the base platform as possible.  As I mentioned, console manufacturer's have sold the actual hardware at a loss for years.  Once you have the console, you'll likely buy games and peripherals which is how they will make their money.

                                                                 

                                                                Microsoft has adopted that strategy as well now with Windows 10.  They have stated it will be the last stand alone release and now be subject to an upgrade calendar similar to iOS or Android.  There are nice things about it, but for Microsoft they are trying to go from a historically open platform to a more controlled platform.  Naturally, there is going to be blow back from that.  

                                                            • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
                                                              red5

                                                              I hope you all realize that this cripples AMD's ability to make a splash in enterprise IT where the real money is.  Corporations take years to certify all their apps on a new operating system. There are still tons of companies out there paying Microsoft to support Windows XP. So most companies will continue to buy Intel-based workstations that will be compatible with Win7 and Win8.1 North American businesses reluctant to adopt Windows 10

                                                              Sad, but true nonetheless. They'll have better luck in the datacenter space I think.

                                                              For us enthusiasts it may just be an inconvenience of having to swallow the bitter pill that is Windows 10.

                                                              2 of 2 people found this helpful
                                                              • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
                                                                icemyth

                                                                JayzTwoCents did a review for Kaby lake on windows 8 and he ran into issues because he was overclocking, so he had to return to the original clocks. Also the OS identified that the CPU was Baby Lake. Now, what was interesting in the last thing he said about AMD CPUs, Kaby Lake had no issues (was able to work) because it is built on top of Sky Lake but AMD Ryzen is a complete new and different processor in-compre to previous generations so it is not supported and he will have to test it when it is released.

                                                                 

                                                                Video link: What happens when you install Windows 8 on a Kaby Lake system?? - YouTube

                                                                • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
                                                                  colesdav

                                                                  What about this as a potential solution? Robolinux is PC Compatible

                                                                  It is a linux distribution that is set up to run Windows 10 in a virtual machine.

                                                                  Does anyone on the forum have experience using Robolinux?

                                                                  • Re: If You Are Interested in Zen Did You Know It Will Not Run On Anything Other Than Windows 10?
                                                                    steelbizkit

                                                                    Here is why I hate win10 vs win7.

                                                                     

                                                                    https://youtu.be/xdyCveeVMK0

                                                                     

                                                                    https://youtu.be/-CwvPjKDiFY

                                                                     

                                                                    Now that's my system. My girlfriend's system has a different issue when waking from sleep with a rx480.