42 Replies Latest reply on Dec 9, 2016 1:44 AM by colesdav

    What is even the point of crossfire?

    carnage2k4

      Scenario 1: Warframe...

      So, I saw that Warframe was not running crossfire, I go into CCC and select 'Optimise 1x1' to see how it goes... Crap, massive frame stutter whenever anything loads, fps is less than 1 card.

      So I chose a predefined profile and see Warframe has one, select it, second card fails to do anything, running on 1 card...

       

      Scenario 2: Skyrim SE

      'Optimise 1x1'... Crap, 30fps 60% utilisation on each card. (as opposed to 50fps on 1 card at 90% utilisation)

      So I chose a predefined profile and normal Skyrim has one, only 1 card works, I try another profile suggested by the internet (assassins creed brotherhood), only 1 card active...

       

      From what I can tell is that the "crossfire" predefined settings basically work by not using one of your cards... When does crossfire actually work? Does anyone have a working example where crossfire give them better results than a single card? I'm yet to have that experience, as EVERY game I play has some sort of issue with crossfire... So why is it even a thing? I'm yet to even see a "crossfire setting" where crossfire worked...

      As far as I can tell my second cards acts as poor converter where you spend frame rate for less utilisation of a single card.

       

      Win 7 Pro x64

      Intel Core i5-3570K @ 3.8GHz

      2X 3G Gigabyte HD 7970OC

      Gigabyte Z68X-UD7-B3

      G.Skill Snipers 2x4GB DDR3 (1600MHz)

        • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
          black_zion

          Crossfire does not work in every game, and depending on the game, Crossfire may be disabled if it will yield little to no performance improvement.

          • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
            gto_pro

            There are very few games that are optimised for crossfire and most of those are the triple AAA titles wich demand alot of power.ur better of buying just 1 powerful gpu and stick with that till u feel u need the upgrade

            • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
              hyevltg3

              Tried two games and gave up?

               

              Try an entire library of 109 steam games.

              I'm happy that at least 58 of those 109 support CF.

              of course some require googling and tinkering.

               

              what your thread title should really have been is, What's the point of 2 cards.

              SLI is almost similar to CF in most cases, in some SLI works better, in others CF takes the lead.

               

              these arent ramblings of someone who's trying to justify his CF setup. this is from evidence.

              I used to have 980ti SLI before my 480s (yea yea, I know, that was a downgrade, I like two cards, but I also like saving money)

              SLI was also a pain in the neck.

               

              CF/SLI really depends on what games you play. if you only play a select few, or devoted to 1-2 MMORPGs. you should do your homework about if those games support good scaling with two cards.

              For a mass-gamer like me. It just didnt make sense not to get 2 cards. For games that do work, I get amazing scaling opposed to never getting that "boost" if I went 1 card in all games.

              2 of 3 people found this helpful
                • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                  black_zion

                  There's also the fact that with DirectX 12, the multiple GPU scene changes dramatically and it falls onto the developer to enable DirectX 12 MultiGPU, and we have already seen where AAA titles, such as Battlefield 1, don't even feature it, in addition to the fact that DirectX 11 SLI/Crossfire is hit or miss, scoring anywhere between negative and 100%. The age of using multiple GPUs, especially given the dramatic increase in horsepower of higher end cards like the GTX 1080 and soon to pounce Vega 10, is all but over, especially once you consider the fact that we are quite unlikely to see another 4x jump in resolution the way we did from FHD to UHD, but a gradual increase in line with graphics performance increases, as well as the fact that there are now (and should continue to be) distinct differences between lower, middle, and high end cards which will make purchasing two mid range cards vs one high end card the same price, if not more expensive.

                • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                  colesdav

                  Hi,

                  My System:

                   

                  Win 8.1 64bit. 

                  Intel Core i7-4770K @ Stock speed. 

                  1X Sapphire HD 7970OC 6GB VaporX Primary.

                  1X Sapphire R9 280x 3GB VaporX Tri-X Secondary.

                  ASUS Z87 Deluxe Dual. 

                  Crucal Ballistix LP 2x4GB DDR3 (1600MHz).

                   

                  I should be able to make my CPU 'look like' yours.
                  Our GPU's are similar.

                  Currently Uploading Warframe to my Game Testing Library.

                  I will take a look, and report back what I see.

                   

                  Cheers.

                  • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                    colesdav

                    Here are my initial Results for Warframe on my System.

                    CPU = i7-4770K set to  +16% Overclock from Stock. All 4 cores active. Hyperthreading on. 8 Logical Cores in total.

                    HDMI In (from Avermedia LGX) to DELL ST2220T Monitor.

                    Warframe Graphics Settings All Maxed out.

                    AA off so I see the Crossfire Performance without AA algorithms affecting results and lket GPU run at Max FPS.

                    Resolution = 2560x1440 (1080p Monitor with Virtual Super Resolution Turned on.

                     

                    AMD Radeon Crimson 16.11.3

                    Display Settings. VSR Enabled. GPU Scaling on. Scaling Mode Full Panel.

                     

                    Global Graphics set to Crossfire on. Default then FramePacing turned off. Frame Rate Target Control is set to 200 then disabled. Crossfire Logo on.

                    Global Overdrive set to default for HD 7970 OC 6GB.  Power Target then set to max (20%).

                    Global Overdrive set to default for R9 280x  OC 6GB. Power Target then set to max (50%).

                    GPU Profile  Graphics and Overdrive Settings reset to match to Global  settings.

                    Profile options Display Scaling on.

                    Profile Graphics Options used to select Crossfire Mode.

                     

                    Warframe Results I see.

                    ===================

                     

                    Here are my Warframe results using HDMI pass through on Avermedia Live Gamer Extreme to Dell 2220ST Monitor HDMI Input.

                    Mission = Lith.

                    Crossfire Mode      BFS      FS        Crossfire Logo?      GPU Sharing?

                    Default                    130      130                  No.                     No.      

                    AFR Friendly.          130      170                 Yes.                    Yes.

                    Optimize 1x1.            95        95                 Yes.                    Yes.

                    AFR Compat.            120      20                  Yes.                   Yes.

                    Custom Profile.         130     130                 No.                      No.

                     

                    Key:

                    BFS = Borderless Full Screen = Fullscreen with Crossfire 'Off'

                    FS  = Full Screen = Crossfire should be 'on'/ if enabled.

                    Crossfire Logo = Yes then Crossfire is actually running.

                    GPU Sharing = Both GPU running and taking some load.

                    Custom Profile used = Warframe.

                    No graphical Flickering seen.

                    'Stuttering' and severe negative scaling seen with seen with AFR Compatible mode and FullScreen Crossfire on.

                     

                    It looks like the Default Profile and the AMD Custom Profile are to leaving Crossfire off.

                    AFR Friendly gives me a positive scaling of (170/120)  = 1.42.

                     

                    Hope this helps.

                    Bye.

                    • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                      colesdav

                      Next tests I will look at is:
                      (1). Mimic your CPU by turning off all overcllocking and switching off hyperthreading.
                             Crossfire uses additional CPU resources and it might be that your CPU is starting to struggle and hence you see some Graphical Corruption / Flickering?

                             I have certainly seen this before when I run Crysis Modded Maps with Hyperthreading off on Very High settings.

                      (2). I will also look to see DVI versus HDMI performance.

                       

                      Bye.

                      • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                        colesdav

                        Other thing you should probably do is run system checks and make sure your WEindows 7 installation is clean. Verify your warframe installation. Reinstall your GPU Driver.

                         

                        I will test on Windows 7 later in the week.

                        Bye.

                        • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                          colesdav

                          Here is a quick video of running Warframe at 2560x1440p with Crossfire, recorded at 1920x1080p using Avermedia Live Gamer Extreme Capture Card linked to an HP Envy 15 Gen 1 as a capture device. Please note the recording quality is not optimal. I used the HP envy 15 and capture card so I do not load my PC. The video gives you an idea of the FPS I am seeing with Crossfire on my System. I am running with an Overclock on the GPU's of 1150/1580 in this video, but everything else the same otherwise: Warframe 2560x1440p recorded in 1920x1080p 60FPS.Crossfire On HB. - YouTube

                          • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                            colesdav

                            Here are my results from downloading and installing Skyrim Extended Edition into my Games Testing Library.
                            I will have to load this in stages so first of all, here are the results I see where I run the game from fresh installation of the game and the very latest AMD Radeon Crimson Settings (16.11.4) Drivers freshly installed as well.

                            • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                              colesdav

                              Skyrim Extended Edition.

                              ========================

                              All Graphics Settings maxed out.

                              Running AMD Virtual Super Resolution on @ 2560x1440p on a Dell ST2220 1080p IPS Monitor on HDMI via Avermedia Live Gamer Extreme Capture Card.

                               

                              Amd Radeon Crimson 16.11.4

                              ==========================

                              Crossfire On.

                              =============

                               

                              Crossfire Setting in Game Profile.

                              ==================================

                               

                              Mode.                              FS               Crossfire Symbol?          GPU Sharing?           Visual Issues?

                               

                              Disabled.                           45.3             No.                               No.                                      No.  

                              Default.                              60                No.                               No.                                      No.

                              AFR F.                                60               Yes.                              Yes. ~P:55% S:45%            No.

                              Opt1x1                               60               Yes.                              Yes. ~P:55% S:45%             No.

                              AFR C.                               43.5            Yes.                              Yes. ~P:65% S:60%             No.    

                              Custom (TESV.exe)            60               No.                               No.                                       No.            

                               

                              Note 1.  These results are what I see when I launch Skyrim into Full Screen Mode with Crossfire Enabled and stay there.

                              In this case I see no Visual Issues at all.

                               

                              Note 2.  I do not ALT TAB off to another window and then ALT TAB  back into Skyrim.

                               

                              Note 3. There is no way to go from Windowed Mode into Fullscreen Mode in Skyrim Extended Edition
                              either in the game menus or using ALT ENTER keys.

                               

                              More on Notes 1-3 later.

                               

                              Crossfire performs fine as far as I can see although AFR Compatible gives negative scaling.

                              The Crossfire Scaling numbers seem locked to a max of 60FPS.

                              Vsync is definitely on in SkyRim Extended Edition.

                              I see no Screen tearing. although I see no way to access Vsync Settings in the game menus.
                              More on that next. 

                              Cheers.

                              colesdav

                              • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                                colesdav

                                Skyrim Extended Edition Max FPS performance.

                                =====================================

                                After a bit of investigation on the WEB it appears that Skyrim is actually 'locked' to around 60FPS with Vsync enabled in Fullscreen Mode.

                                Something to do with the Physics Engine not able to handle > 60FPS properly.

                                 

                                We need Fullscreen mode to run Crossfire, and we need to allow the FPS to go higer than 60 to see what scaling we can get witrh Crossfire Enabled.

                                 

                                It can be unlocked by performing the following modifications to the following file:

                                 

                                1. Exit Skyrim Special Edition.

                                2. Go to C:\Users\<UserName>\Documents\My Games\Skyrim Special Edition

                                3. There should be a file called: SkyrimPrefs.ini

                                4. Copy it to a file called: SkyrimPrefs.txt

                                5. Rename the original file to SkyrimPrefs_bak

                                6. Open SkyrimPrefs.txt

                                7. Find this:

                                iVSyncPresentInterval=1

                                Change it to this:

                                iVSyncPresentInterval=0

                                8. Save the SkyrimPrefs.txt file

                                9. Rename the SkyrimPrefs.txt file to SkyrimPrefs.ini.

                                10. Restart Skyrim. 60FPS locking is now unlocked BUT according to what I read on the WEB from various sources it is known to cause issues with the Physics Engine and Visual Corruption ... even with 1 GPU and no SLI/Crossfire. 

                                 

                                Initial testing results to follow next. 

                                • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                                  colesdav

                                  Skyrim Extended Edition with iVSyncPresentInterval=0 set in the C:\Users\<UserName>\Documents\My Games\Skyrim Special Edition\SkyrimPrefs.ini

                                  ====================================================

                                  All Graphics Settings maxed out in Skyrim Extended Edition. 

                                  Virtual Super Resolution on. Resolution set to max 2560x1440p

                                   

                                  Amd Radeon Crimson 16.11.4

                                  ==========================

                                  Crossfire On.

                                  =============

                                   

                                  Crossfire Setting in Game Profile.

                                  ==================================

                                   

                                  Mode.                            FS              Crossfire Symbol?             GPU Sharing?      Visual Issues?

                                   

                                  Disabled.                    75 - 45.3                   No.                                No.                                  No.  

                                  Default.                       75 - 45.3                   No.                                No.                                  No.

                                  AFR F.                       176- 89.5                   Yes.                               Yes. ~P:99% S:91%        No.

                                  Opt1x1                           53                          Yes.                              Yes. ~P:60% S:51%         No.

                                  AFR C.                           53                          Yes.                              Yes. ~P:65% S:63%         No.    

                                  Custom (TESV.exe)       75-45.3                  No.                                No.                                   No.            

                                   

                                  The above table was done quiclkly and just reports the peak / min FPS. I have not calsulated the averages yet.

                                  When I started OPT 1x1 and AFR C. the initial framerates were ~ 53 so I stopped testiong as clearly negative scaling.

                                   

                                  However from this initial table you can see that by modding the Skyrim Extended Edition settings to disable Vsync and FPS Limit

                                  that it looks like AMD Crossfire is actually scaling very well on this game. I got a peak frame rate of 176 during testing

                                  with AFR enabled. I observed a brief minimum of 89.5. Like I said I still need to calculate the average FPS.

                                   

                                  The following notes again still stand.

                                   

                                  Note 1.  These results are what I see when I launch Skyrim into Full Screen Mode with Crossfire Enabled and stay there.

                                  In this case I see no Visual Issues at all.

                                   

                                  Note 2.  I do not ALT TAB off to another window and then ALT TAB  back into Skyrim.

                                   

                                  Note 3. There is no way to go from Windowed Mode into Fullscreen Mode in Skyrim Extended Edition
                                  either in the game menus or using ALT ENTER keys.

                                   

                                  More on Notes 1-3 later.

                                   

                                  As a final test I will turn Crossfire off completely in AMD Global Settings.
                                  I will then restart Skyrim Extended Edition and report Frame Rates I see.

                                   

                                  Those results next.

                                  colesdav

                                  • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                                    colesdav

                                    Skyrim Extended Edition with iVSyncPresentInterval=0 set in the C:\Users\<UserName>\Documents\My Games\Skyrim Special Edition\SkyrimPrefs.ini

                                    ====================================================

                                    All Graphics Settings maxed out in Skyrim Extended Edition. 

                                    Virtual Super Resolution on. Resolution set to max 2560x1440p

                                     

                                    Amd Radeon Crimson 16.11.4

                                    ==========================

                                    Turning Crossfire off completely in Global Settings gives me the following:

                                     

                                    ========================================================

                                    Mode.             FS                        Crossfire Symbol?             GPU Sharing?      Visual Issues?

                                     

                                    Disabled.         76 - 45.7                No.                                   No.                        No.  

                                     

                                    In other words the Crossfire off in Global Settings gives me ~ same as Crossfire on in Global Settings but just Crossfire Disabled in the profile.

                                      • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                                        colesdav

                                        Here is a quick video of running Skyrim Special edition  at 2560x1440p with Crossfire, recorded at 1920x1080p using Avermedia Live Gamer Extreme Capture Card linked to an HP Envy 15 Gen 1 as a capture device. Please note the recording quality is not optimal. I used the HP Envy 15 and capture card so I do not load my PC. The video gives you an idea of the FPS I am seeing with Crossfire on my System. I am running with an Overclock on the GPU's of 1150/1580 in this video : SKYRIM1HB - YouTube

                                        This is pretty much the test sequence I used earlier. The FPS gets a little lower than I saw previously at the rock fall scene ... basically I moved too far fopward in the scene when I was recording. I should have automated the keystrokes...

                                         

                                        Next thing I will look at is ... how does turning on Frame Pacing and Frame Rate Target Control of 170 FPS affect the overall performance.
                                        I think the reason you are getting poor FPS in AFR Friendly is that your Graphics Driver has been corrupted during a crash. I am confidenty I can crash my Graphics Drivers by turning on Frame Pacing and Frame Rate Target Control in Crysis Series or Borderlands2 or ... many other titles. Lets see what happens in Skyrim Extended Edition.

                                      • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                                        colesdav

                                        Here is a video of running Skyrim Special edition  at 2560x1440p with Crossfire, recorded at 1920x1080p using Avermedia Live Gamer Extreme Capture Card linked to an HP Envy 15 Gen 1 as a capture device. Again video recording quality is not optimal. In this case I am running with an Overclock on the GPU's of 1150/1580 as in the previous SKYRIM1HB video. However I also turned on Frame Pacing and Frame Rate Target Control to 170 to see what happens. Overall the peak Frame Rate came down. The video seems a little smoother in real life on my PC:

                                        SKYRIM2HB - YouTube

                                         

                                        Unfortunately the Game Crashed at the end of the above  recording. My PC Froze up and an buzzing sound was emitted by my PC Speakers. My video driver crashed.  To be fair I am running an overclock on CPU and GPU's.

                                         

                                        When I rebooted my PC, I started steam, verified the game files, redid the edit to the skyrim file to allow > 60 FPS, verified my Windows Installation system files. Launched Skyrim Special Edition from the same Profile in Radeon Settings, with the same GPU overclock, but I turned off Frame Pacing and Frame Rate Target Control prior to launching the game this time. I have recorded the result.

                                        I see very low FPS , stuttering and screen flicker and banding (scrolling white lines across the screen) with the corrupted AMD driver.

                                        I will not put that video on Youtube because of the flicker.

                                        I will make it available to AMD support if they want it.

                                        This is exactly the type of issue I see in the past ih other Games such as Crysis series, Borderlands 2, etc ... If I turn on Framme Pacing and Frame Rate Target Control it works for 5-10 minutes and then Freezes my PC. I then have to reinstall the AMD drivers because they are corrupted and I get poor/unuseable  Crossfire Performance. The problem still occurs when I run my CPU and GPU at stock non overclocked speeds.

                                         

                                        Uninstalling the AMD Drivers, restarting my PC, Installing the AMD drivers, Restarting the PC, Resetting all of my Global and local options and GPU Overclocks and I get back to the situation seen in the previous SKYRIM1HB video. I.e. I can get very high FPS and performance from my Crossfired GPU's. The video quality is o.k.

                                         

                                        I need to stop for today. I will continue feedback in my spare time during the week.

                                          • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                                            elpuertorro

                                            And yet whit all this feedback we don't have a profile!!

                                             

                                            Then you wonder why AMD is where they at on the public perception of them, no matter how good the tech is if you don't have GOOD SUPPORT!
                                            So I'll echo the question of the OP What is the point make me spend more $$ so they look nice and brag I have 2 gpu's?
                                            I could understand if this was some obscure indy game but come on you knew this game was arriving with the SE version you know for a fact it is one of the most played and modded even being 5yrs+ old and was one of the most anticipated!
                                            As of the time of this post #23 in the top 100 games being played on steam:
                                            Active players Today: current players 19,293 and peak 21,116

                                            Yet you failed the gamers again because let's not forget how long it took for original Skyrim to get a profile but at that a flawed one with lots of flickering and such....come on AMD get your stuff together!! I know you are all concentrated on ZEN/VEGA but you can't neglect your core buyers/supporters oh and also not only the AAA games!

                                             

                                            Here is hoping for the best.......sadly by experience won't get my hopes up and try colesdav suggestions which i shouldn't have to do!!

                                              • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                                                colesdav

                                                Hi elpuertorro

                                                 

                                                Nice to get some feedback ;-) Thanks!

                                                 

                                                (A). I would like to add some comments below first to update where this work in this thread stands today.

                                                (B). Then I will respond to the points you just made in your post.

                                                (C). Then perhaps someone from AMD can respond to this thread.

                                                 

                                                Is that o.k.?

                                                Lets get started.

                                                I will deal with (A) first in this reply. Then follow up with (B) and (C) in separate replys.

                                                 

                                                (A). I would like to add some comments below first to update where this work in this thread stands today.

                                                ===========================================================================

                                                1. Sorry I left this thread alone for 2 weeks now. Been very busy with work. I am still investigating this Frame Pacing / Frame Rate Target Control Issue.
                                                2. I have also been looking into the Frame Pacing/Frame Rate Target Control issue on another thread here:
                                                Frame Pacing and / Or Frame Rate Target Control causes hang on various titles supporting Crossfire on my System.
                                                3. I have received some tips and advice and debug regarding testing this issue on my PC System from the forum.

                                                4. One 'issue' or 'view'  I constantly hit when I discuss or request support on a Crossfire issue is my GPU's are not listed on the AMD Crossfire Compatibilty Chart.

                                                    I have crossfired a Sapphire HD7970 OC 6GB Vapor-X with a Sapphire R9 280X OC 3GB Tri-X Vapor-X card.

                                                    I have had 'official feedback' from AMD Red Team to say that this card combination is 'unusual' but should be O.K. to Crossfire.

                                                    I only did it because I could not get another Sapphire HD7970 OC 6GB Vapor-X (They are as rare as Dragon's Teeth, and very expensive at launch).

                                                    I did lots of investigation on the web, believed the R9 280X OC 3GB Tri-X Vapor-X card should work. And bought it in a Black Friday Sale.

                                                    The  R9 280X OC 3GB Tri-X Vapor-X should also have been pretty expensive, but was on sale for £110 because the R9 300 series had just been released. 

                                                5. I need a Skyrim/SE Fan or player with Two Matched HD7970 or R9280x and an i74770K or similar on clean Windows 8.1 to repeat my findings on Frame Pacing / Frame Rate Target Control Issues in SkyRim/SE to get around (4). above.

                                                6. I needed more GPU Compute (OpenCL) Power. I stay with AMD, because actually I am really interested in Price versus Performance. AMD wins this hands down      for my needs,

                                                7. Provided I keep Frame Pacing and Frame Rate Target Control switched off, AMD Crossfire usually works great for me.

                                                8. Some times a bit of work is needed to get C rossfire to run properly. Sometimes support is needed for a new game and new profile is needed That can take a while to get fixed.

                                                9. Sometimes In Game options cause trouble for Crossfire and a workaround can be to turn off an in game option and use Radeon Settings instead.

                                                10. I just purchased two AMD R9 Nano's, one PowerColor 'new' - but listed as 'used' (It was a small shop display model, so open box)  on Ebay for a very low      price(a potentially risky first for me) , one XFX new on Amazon for a slightly higher price,  again in a "Black Friday Sale" time period. That is one reason this      thread is not updated. I have been running extensive, non overclocked testing on the Nanos. Specifically the PowerColor, in case I have to return it. 

                                                11.  Now I have 2 R9  Nanos, So I have a pair of matched and reasonably new, high spec,  AMD r9 Nano (Fury X type) cards to give feedback on Frame Pacing and

                                                Frame Rate Target control in general. I will also look at Skyrim SE again.

                                                12. If you read my threads above, you will have seen this:

                                                "The following notes again still stand.

                                                 

                                                Note 1.  These results are what I see when I launch Skyrim into Full Screen Mode with Crossfire Enabled and stay there.

                                                In this case I see no Visual Issues at all.

                                                 

                                                Note 2.  I do not ALT TAB off to another window and then ALT TAB  back into Skyrim.

                                                 

                                                Note 3. There is no way to go from Windowed Mode into Fullscreen Mode in Skyrim Extended Edition
                                                either in the game menus or using ALT ENTER keys.

                                                 

                                                More on Notes 1-3 later."

                                                I still need to give some feedback on that. I still defer that discussion for now. It is important though.

                                                Cheers.

                                                colesdav.

                                                • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                                                  colesdav

                                                  Hi again. continuing on...

                                                  I number your original email for easy reference.

                                                   

                                                  (B). Then I will respond to the points you just made in your post.

                                                  ==============================================

                                                  1. And yet whit all this feedback we don't have a profile!!

                                                   

                                                  - I am one person actually reporting detailed results and hopefully hard data on this issue.

                                                  - I do not even play Skyrim/SE. I just have it in a Games Testing Library.

                                                  - I assume there must be a very large number of Skyrim users, I assume a proportion of them have Crossfire.

                                                   

                                                  2. Yet I see the following 3 people involved in this thread.

                                                   

                                                  - The original poster who was complaining about Crossfire in Warframe, and Skyrim. 
                                                  What is even the point of crossfire? in Graphics

                                                  carnage2k4  asked1 month ago.

                                                   

                                                  - The OP has not replied to the thread yet.

                                                  - Myself

                                                  - You.

                                                   

                                                  3. Then you wonder why AMD is where they at on the public perception of them, no matter how good the tech is if you don't have GOOD SUPPORT!

                                                   

                                                  I think we do actually get good support. They way things work is as follows.

                                                   

                                                  - There are alway limited support resources. Companies need to make a profit to survive. That only leaves so much for Applications/Post Sales support.

                                                  -  Any software can generate an almost infinite number of issues to look into. It just depends on how much effort ands time comes in from how many customers to report an 'Issue'.

                                                  - First question to ask. Is the issue a Real Technical Issue that should be supported?

                                                  - Workaround solutions on Forums or Application Engineering support will be attempted first. Once that is exhausted then you go on to the next step.

                                                  - Real issues will get looked into in detail only if there is enough request from Customers to look at them, and they affect Sales.


                                                  4. So I'll echo the question of the OP What is the point make me spend more $$ so they look nice and brag I have 2 gpu's?

                                                  I could understand if this was some obscure indy game but come on you knew this game was arriving with the SE version you know for a fact it is one of the most played and modded even being 5yrs+ old and was one of the most anticipated!
                                                  As of the time of this post #23 in the top 100 games being played on steam:
                                                  Active players Today: current players 19,293 and peak 21,116

                                                  Yet you failed the gamers again because let's not forget how long it took for original Skyrim to get a profile but at that a flawed one with lots of flickering and such....come on AMD get your stuff together!! I know you are all concentrated on ZEN/VEGA but you can't neglect your core buyers/supporters oh and also not only the AAA games!

                                                   

                                                  - So I cannot comment on all of that history. I do not play Skyrim. There is obviously some history here. If you are involved in Skyrim Forums then maybe you can help.

                                                   

                                                  - If there are current players 19,293 and peak 21,116, perhaps you can get some of them who use AMD Crossfire to get looking at this issue, and contributing to this post somehow? 

                                                   

                                                  - RE: I know you are all concentrated on ZEN/VEGA but you can't neglect your core buyers/supporters oh and also not only the AAA games!

                                                   

                                                  If 'AMD' really are concentrating on ZEN/VEGA right now, and not able to look at this post at the moment, I think thery are doing exactly the correct thing...

                                                  AMD is an essential Company for us as PC users, it provides great technology at a good price point and acts as competition which benefits us all.

                                                  They need ZEN/VEGA to be a sucess, we do too. We need competition and choice.

                                                   

                                                  - RE: Here is hoping for the best.......sadly by experience won't get my hopes up and try colesdav suggestions which i shouldn't have to do!!

                                                   

                                                  OK. My suggestions do work sometimes ... ;-). I will keep my fingers crossed for you.

                                                   

                                                  Provided you:

                                                   

                                                  1. Edit the Skyrim File to override the FPS settings that the Game Developers actually support (Hint: is this a Real Issue???)

                                                  2. Get the game to Launch directly into Crossfire with my Settings and stay in the game in Full Screen Mode

                                                   

                                                  then you should be able play the game at high FPS with reasonable scaling.

                                                   

                                                  3. If you do an ALT TAB out of Skyrim and back in again to Fullscreen mode or eave Fullscreen mode and go back again you might see some serious screen flickering. you have been warned, so take care. Again I don't want to go into that in too much detail right now, It obviously needs some more work. 

                                                   

                                                  I will wait for your responses to (A) and (B).

                                                  Thanks again for looking into this thread.

                                                    • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                                                      elpuertorro

                                                      Hey man nice to see someone trying!!
                                                      Let me clear the air
                                                      Yes I love AMD my first experience was back with the Athlon XP CPU's and ATI/AMD when I got my XFX 5870's XXX(now days oc model) but it's frustrating man. specially when you see new drivers with new profiles but only addressing the 3A titles and then new driver with more fixes for 3A titles that are barely being played, but the ones actually being played by gamers and the rest? ......fine thank you!,  ok now having cleared that, maybe it comes across wrong but my intention is out of love for AMD maybe a though love, but love non the less!

                                                       

                                                      I'll address the points as you did first A and so on.

                                                       

                                                      A) You have a life so no need the apologize, Understandable but you have been upfront with what you have and how your testing so what more can be asked from you, and your set up is ok, those gpu's are from the same family and 1 of the things AMD has going for them which is a fact is being able to mix  generations and/or 1- or 1+ in the same series to get the best bang for buck. not only that you have provided specifics of how and what you doing, almost doing the job someone else should have done already
                                                      I'll try to help you in what even I can my set up is a FX8350 + 16gb DDR3 1600 + 2x 380's @ 1425Mhz (stock)  with up to date drivers 16.11.5 + 850w PSU slight OC on CPU 4.3 so nothing to write home about or cause any stability issue

                                                       

                                                      B) It's only you HERE do a little search for AMD crossfire profile skyrim SE and you'll see

                                                       

                                                      Want to see at least on steam how many players active today (or at the time you hit the link as is updated real time) easy don't assume here's is the top 100 list of games played daily on steam
                                                      Steam: Game and Player Statistics
                                                      Take a look and noticed games that keep getting active fixes for the crossfire profiles like, Watch Dogs 2, No Man's Sky and Dishonored 2 compare the numbers if you combine all 3 of those you almost reach the number of Skyrim SE users which at the end of the day you and me both now it's about the numbers!

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      It's only 3 of us here well at least that actually comment but sure many have read it.

                                                      This is known (on the skyrim SE subject)  and AMD has plenty of reports, just go on the Nexus (modding community) or reddit and you will see the pattern, by the way this is the same engine as Fallout 4 and it has a profile, which is what most threads suggest to use to try and make the best out of crossfire which is hit or miss for some. again as before do the search you'll see for yourself.

                                                       

                                                      Yes understandable they need to make a profit at the end of the day that is the point,  but you can't neglect one side of the business to attend to the other because then you will loose at some point you have to have good ZEN to keep a BALANCE remember known fact most companies that fail at some point if you look it's mostly because of bad CS, most that do make it and flourish even if they don't have that great of a product is because of the great CS and listening to their costumer base. And come on let's not be blind or look the other way, it's a FACT AMD struggled and doesn't/didn't know how to market themselves, now they are actually showing change in that regards and for the better, but that is a known fact and we can't try and cover the sun with 1 finger if you know what i mean.

                                                       

                                                      ok with that out of the way

                                                       

                                                      Did try your suggestions and no luck bad flickering with the super brightness the known crossfire bug dating back to old skyrim, already had the FPS unlocked as this is not the first thing I have tried can't tell you the numbers right now but the little run i did was getting indoors close to 60 but barely making it more like 40's and 50'sand out doors in the high 20's low 30's with hard dips to 2 or 3 FPS..so as you can see not great. oh wait almost forgot that was @ 1080p ultra

                                                       

                                                      on those 3 last points  nah Skyrim doesn't need to go beyond 60fps and I do play games that do need it and have a 144hz monitor myself but really doesn't need it as long as it can get a solid 60fps it's great, anything after that is just icing on the cake.

                                                       

                                                      And yes followed your suggestions to the T, fullscreen , no tabbing out,  even got rid of ENB (graphical enhancer)  just to make sure, but still as reported above los FPS and the blinding, brightness  I'll try and get a video but then again I have no capture program so recording will cost some FPS which will have to be taken into account for what ever result i get or perhaps screenies I'll see what i can get for you, maybecan take a vid with the phone not the best solution but hey at least you can see what happens.
                                                      So let me know what is needed. and i'll try to help.

                                                       

                                                      ps: must be done on my part before to 14th as I'm spending my xmas vacation in CT, so won't have access to the pc.

                                                       

                                                      Hopefully I addressed your points if not let me know! and thanks but the finger crossing didn't work lol

                                                      1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                        • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                                                          colesdav

                                                          Hi,

                                                           

                                                          Thanks again for the reply and the information.

                                                           

                                                          1. So you still see very poor framerate at times and frame rate variation and dont seedecent scaling in Crossfire, and blinding brightness.
                                                          2. This is similar to the behaviour I saw after the driver crashed on me after I tuned on Frame Pacing. I fixed that by driver remove, clean reinstall.

                                                          3. Can you please confirm that you definitely set your Crossfire Profile to "AFR Friendly" and launched the game from within AMD Radeon Settining Game Profile please? I was running with all Graphics settings Maxed out with Virtual Super Res @ 1440p.

                                                          4. I think for testing purposes at least we need to take of all overclocking and just run at Stock CPU Clock and   GPU speeds.

                                                          5. Good point that there are more reports of issues with Skyrim on this forum than just this post. I have not really have had time to look into it any further ... but that should be AMD Support task, not mine.

                                                          6. I will take a detailed look at running around outside in Skyrim, and record a scene to get a good feel for FPS results I see.

                                                           

                                                          In conclusion I do think we have enough issues for AMD to look at the Crossfire Behaviour in Skyrim.

                                                           

                                                          Thanks again.

                                                          • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                                                            colesdav

                                                            Hi again,

                                                             

                                                            You are probably getting fed up with me but here goes ...

                                                             

                                                            OK.

                                                             

                                                            So I started to look into the Crossfire Performance of my R9 Nanos this evening, looking at 4K Virtual Super Resolution performance in Crossfire ... which is pretty astounding, especially in Crysis 2/3  but thats off this topic... 

                                                             

                                                            Since you had replied to  this thread today and we had a discussion earlier on, I decided to look at Skyrim SE with the 2 R9 Nano in Crossfire. 

                                                            I did the following before I started the investigations again. 

                                                             

                                                            Test Setup.

                                                            ===========

                                                             

                                                            (1). Complete PC System Check. - Passes o.k. no problems.

                                                            (2). Turned off all of my CPU Overclock settings so my i74770K is running at Stock Speed.

                                                            (3). Uninstalled my Crimson Drivers and performed a completely clean reinstall of Radeon Software Version 16.11.5.

                                                            (4). Verified my Skyrim SE Gaming Files.

                                                                  Note means that the Game is back to default "locked at 60FPS Vsync on" behaviour. So this is  back to the intended default behaviour by the Game Developers.

                                                            (5). Set AMD Virtual Super Resolution to 2K (2560x1440p) Since that is what I ran my HD7970/R9280x's at for the videos earlier in this thread.

                                                            (6). Note there was absolutely no overclocking of the GPU's used. Default Radeon settings Behavioiur on both cards.

                                                            (7). I made sure Frame Pacing and Frame Rate Target Control were completely off in both Global and Profile Settings.

                                                             

                                                            (8). So I launched Skyrim SE, all Graphics settings were set to the maximum (Ultra), and maximum AA setting was used, and I started off in the Default Crossfire Profile ... which means Crossfire is actually off. The Crossfire Logo is not displayed.

                                                             

                                                            (9). Following your comment about how much you were seeing your FPS tank in the outdoor scenes ... I proceeded to fight my way past a spiders nest and get outside ... I do not know this game... so anyhow I went into a place where I pulled a lever, and I see the text "Entering Skyrim". I then end up at the top of a Mountain.

                                                             

                                                            I saved the game there, and that was the starting point for the Crossfire testing.

                                                             

                                                            I exited the game and set the Crossfire profile to AFR Friendly.

                                                             

                                                            I launched the game.

                                                             

                                                            I will continue on with this description in my next post... in the next episode of "Crossfire Debugging on Skyrim SE".

                                                            • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                                                              colesdav

                                                              Initial Crossfire Performance with two R9 Nanos in Crossfire and No Overclocking, default driver settings Crossfire set to AFR Friendly profile.

                                                              ================================================================================================================================================

                                                               

                                                              The game launched o.k. Crossfire logo comes on.

                                                              But this time when I get to the top of the mountain at the start of the test I need to:

                                                               

                                                              1. Put sunglasses on. The mountainside looks like a nuclear weapon has just gone off overhead. Screen contrast is completely out.

                                                              2. Take Anti-Epilepsy Tablets immediately. I saw immediately horrible Horizontal "Banding" / "Flickering" across the screen the extreme brightness is new to me.

                                                                 I did not see that on the HD7970/R9280x in Crossfire on Skyrim SE previously.

                                                              4. The framerate sits at a pretty constant 59/60 FPS. I measure it with the Steam FPS counter. Again I did a fresh reinstall, I am not overriding the game FPS limit.

                                                                 This is Skyrim SE as intended for the developers.

                                                              5. I haven't really discussed why I do the ALT TAB stuff on this thread yet, however ... I tried it.

                                                                 I tried the ALT TAB out of Skyrim to my Windows Desktop and then ALT TAB back in to Fullscreen Skyrim (Crossfire Logo is on) a few times.

                                                                 The "Sunny Day" effect went away after 3 ALT TABS.

                                                                 Further ALT TABs and The Screen Banding improved sometimes, but I gould not get rid of it completely.

                                                               

                                                              6. Note that when I launched into Skyrim SE or indeed Warframe in my earlier tests, they always started fine.

                                                                  However, the Horizontal Banding / Flicker is similar to what I saw with my HD7970/R9280x on this same PC

                                                                  with exactly the same test conditions if I did ALT TAB out to desktop and back in again to the game.

                                                               

                                                              7. Note that on my Crossfire testing of "The Witcher 3" I did see some horizontal banding on that game in crossfire as well initially.

                                                                 The workaround there was to turn off Post Processing "In Game Anti-aliasing" in The Witcher 3.

                                                                 If you do want Anti-Aliasing in that game, then you can instead use AMD Crimson Radeon Settings Global/Profile Anti-aliasing mode -> Override Application      Settings,  and select an Anti-Alising mode there. That works fine in Crossfire. The game runs fine, and looks fantastic using the AMD AA instead.

                                                               

                                                              8. Note that I am using AMD VSR so far.

                                                               

                                                              9. Note that with the R9 Nanos, they use a more advanced Powertune technology than my HD7970/R9280x (most of the r9200 series did, the R9 280x did not).

                                                               

                                                              10. I exited the game. Set the Power and fan speed targets to maximum on both cards. I launched the game. Still testing at 2K with VSR on.

                                                              Same behaviour seen. Horrible at launch, ALT TABS fix the sunny weather.

                                                               

                                                              Still cannot get rid of Horizontal banding / flicker.  

                                                               

                                                              11. I exited the game. Set the Power and fan speed targets to maximum on both cards. I launched the game. This time I turned off Anti-Aliasing completely.

                                                              Still testing at 2K (2560x1440p) with VSR on. Similar  behaviour seen as previously. Horrible at launch, ALT TABS fix the sunny weather.

                                                              HOWEVER - the horizontal banding is much improved versus previous runs. Although not completely gone, this indicates still some other in game Graphics setting setting messing up Crossfire.

                                                               

                                                              12. Finally I exited the game, decided to turn off AMD Virtual Super Resolution launch the game. Go to Game settings. Set everything to ULTRA first. Then turn off

                                                              Anti aliasing. Then go to Advanced options and then turn all Advanced Settings to a minimum.

                                                               

                                                              I launched the game. It looks great. No Flicker/banding/sunny day.  It seems to work as it is supposed to.

                                                               

                                                              In conclusion, so far...

                                                               

                                                              ALT-TAB seems to get rid of the "Sunny Day Effect" for me.

                                                              In game Anti-Aliasisng is messing AMD Crossfire up, Just like with "The Witcher". Turning it off help lots.

                                                              Some more In game options are causing some less severe flickering in Crossfire.

                                                               

                                                              More testing information to follow.

                                                              Cheers.

                                                                • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                                                                  colesdav

                                                                  I looked into further options to get rid of the initial "Sunny Day" effect and "remaining" flickering with the pair of R9 Nanos in Skyrim SE.

                                                                  Here is what I found with AFR Friendly Crossfire setting. Fresh game install with no vsync/FPS override edit (Game as intended). No CPU/GPU overclock.

                                                                   

                                                                  If I set all the Skyrim in game Graphics options to and then turn off in game Antialiasing I can get minimal flicker with positive crossfire scaling. I also need to set some Crimson Antialiasing settings as well though. These are A A Override Application Settings, 8Eq , Edgedetect, Supersampling.

                                                                   

                                                                  (1). ALT TAB can be used to switch to Windows desktop and back into Skyrim SE fullscreen Crossfire. This can get rid of the "Sunny Day" effect and the majority of flicker, but there is some slight on screen flicker / banding in the sky. Water textures also flicker.

                                                                   

                                                                  (2). Easier way to get of "Sunny Day" effect and the majority of flicker, is to look at the ground and hit Esc (pulls up the game menu) a few times. Don't know why this "Works" but it does.

                                                                   

                                                                   

                                                                  In any case I have decided to file the following reports for the following Card Pairings regarding crossfire on Skyrim SE, The Witcher3, and Warframe.

                                                                   

                                                                  For HD7970/R9280x in Crossfire.

                                                                  ===============================

                                                                   

                                                                  (1). Warframe. Can get positive crossfire scaling if set AFR friendly on.  Game does launch o.k. with no flickering or banding. However, if ALT TAB out to Windows Desktop and back in again  to fullscreen Crossfire then some horizontal banding / flicker is seen. Similarly moving from Fullscreen to Windowed Mode and back into fullscreen causes. flickering. Only solution found was to exit and relaunch the game. Default and Custom Crossfire Profiles turn crossfire off.

                                                                   

                                                                   

                                                                  (2). Skyrim SE - Can get positive crossfire scaling if set AFR friendly on. Game does launch o.k. with no flickering or banding. However, if ALT TAB out to Windows Desktop and back in again  to fullscreen Crossfire then some horizontal banding / flicker is seen. Similarly moving from Fullscreen to Windowed Mode and back into fullscreen causes. flickering. Only solution found was to exit and relaunch the game. Default and Custom Crossfire Profiles turn crossfire off.

                                                                   

                                                                   

                                                                  (3). The Witcher 3. Not tested.

                                                                   

                                                                   

                                                                  For R9 Nano / R9 Nano in Crossfire.

                                                                  ===================================

                                                                   

                                                                   

                                                                  (1). Warframe.  Not tested.

                                                                   

                                                                  (2). Skyrim SE -  Can get positive crossfire scaling. "Sunny Day Effect at launch". Game does launch o.k. with no flickering or banding. However, if ALT TAB out to Windows Desktop and back in again  to fullscreen Crossfire then some horizontal banding / flicker is still seen . Similarly moving from Fullscreen to Windowed Mode and back into fullscreen then  flickering. Turning off ingame Antialiasing but using AMD Crimson Antialiasing prior to launch reduces the flickering effect to a minimum, but it is still seen. No solution found.

                                                                   

                                                                  (3). Witcher 3. Severe flickering in Crossfire, unless switch off in game Anti-aliasing and override with AMD antialiasing instead.

                                                                   

                                                                   

                                                                  Clearly some work needs to be done on all three titles to improve Crossfire.

                                                                   

                                                                   

                                                                  I leave it to AMD or other Skyrim SE fans to follow up from here.

                                                                    • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                                                                      colesdav

                                                                      I submitted a report on these issues here:

                                                                      AMD Issue Reporting Form

                                                                        • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                                                                          elpuertorro

                                                                          Sorry didn't get back to you sooner, on the Warframe part, did you know there is a crossfire profile for it? go under "Use AMD pre-defined profile" and just scroll down and you'll see it. try it out. Just saw it today myself lol.

                                                                           

                                                                          Now back to what I'm interested in SSE, I'm gonna try those settings using the crimson AA and see what happens, there is a batch file made on the Nexus (mod page) that hjelps with the flicker somewhat so maybe using it with your settings can offer a almost playable solution, one thing, are you testing in 1st person or 3rd person because usually if you go to 3rd person you will see your characters face flicker black instead of white. maybe has nothing to do with the crossfire but always happens when trying anything to get crossfire working. thanks for submitting it as i also did and many other hopefully we can get a profile before years end!! wishful thinking!

                                                                            • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                                                                              colesdav

                                                                              Hi,

                                                                               

                                                                              (1). Yes I tested all  Warframe Crossfire profiles with my HD7970/R9280x. setup on the previous driver. The custom and default profile, just like profiles for Skyrim SE, actually turns Crossfire off. The primary GPU takes all the load. The Crossfire Logo stays off.

                                                                               

                                                                              (2). I would look at Warframe in Crossfire with my R9 Nano's but Warframe won't let me login and tells me my IP address is banned ... I need to sort that out.

                                                                               

                                                                              (3). Since you are interested in Skyrim SE game and crossfire working, and we are both interested to see if it is just us, I contributed to  the following post to Steam:

                                                                              The Unofficial Bug / Crash + Resolution Thread :: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Special Edition General Discussions

                                                                               

                                                                              (4).If people are seeing issues with their Skyrim SE Crossfire Profile, they know what to do.

                                                                               

                                                                              Bye for now.

                                                                              More info below:

                                                                               

                                                                              Here is what I said:

                                                                              "AMD Crossfire: Please add the following information for users of AMD Crossfire on Skyrim SE to you main thread.

                                                                               

                                                                              If you are a Skyrim SE user and want / need better performance for your AMD Crossfire configuration, please use the "Preferences -> Report Issue" Tab in AMD Crimson Radeon Settings to report any issue to AMD. For me it takes me to this link: http://www.amdsurveys.com/se.ashx?s=5A1E27D23A3DE979

                                                                               

                                                                              You can also contribute to trying to get better Crossfire performance by contributing to the following thread which is currently active on the AMD Drivers forum https://community.amd.com/thread/207503

                                                                               

                                                                              (A). If Crossfire works o.k. for your cards please report your system details to the thread.

                                                                              (B). If Crossfire does not work o.k. for you, please respond to the thread, again to report the details. Please let everyone on the forum know if you have reported any issue. 

                                                                              If you have made an investment to purchase another AMD Card for Crossfire then it is not unreasonable to see some support for a better crossfire experience if it is needed. I would request that people who do decide to contribute to the thread, do so with a positive approach please. AMD do fix crossfire profile if there is an issue, it can take some time as any improvement to Crossfire requires cooperation between AMD Drivers team and the Game Developers. This can take time to organise.

                                                                               

                                                                              Please do not reply to me on this forum with any issues.

                                                                              Please use the AMD Crimson "Report Issue" tab and, if you can, please help by contributing to  https://community.amd.com/thread/207503

                                                                               

                                                                              Thank you.

                                                                              colesdav"

                                                              • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                                                                elpuertorro

                                                                No I mean an actual profile provided by AMD in case you missed it you nedd to go under pre-defined profiles. take a look

                                                                 

                                                                warframe xfire profile.PNG
                                                                Give it a go, as for the ban maybe the router acting up, does anyone else at your house play it? sometimes can get banned because of that 2 connections from the same ip.

                                                                  • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                                                                    colesdav

                                                                    Yes sorry, thats what I meant by "custom profile" I should have said "AMD Pre-defined profile".  I tried it. It diables crossfire.

                                                                     

                                                                    So again if I set the Default profile or the "AMD Pre-defined profile", I see that only 1 GPU is enabled in Crossfire and the Crossfire Logo does not turn on.

                                                                     

                                                                    I installed MSI Afterburner to double check and I can confirm thtat only 1 GPU is active for SKYRIM SE and Warframe in this case.

                                                                     

                                                                    That may be because AMD decides that for some titles, and the majority of cards, the main GPU is enough anyhow to hit 60 FPS to match 60Hz monitor or games that are FPS capped anyhow.

                                                                     

                                                                    Maybe they ignored thoughts of people wanting to crossfire to hit 75 FPS, or 144 FPS "Gaming Monitors".

                                                                     

                                                                    Perhaps they disable crossfire in the Default and Custom profile because they have insufficient resources to work on Crossfire Profiles for every single game.
                                                                    It is easier to do so for some games, so no flicker/visual issues and just wait until Crossfire users complain that Crossfire is disabled on the game.

                                                                     

                                                                    Perhaps they feel that AMD Freesync is a better solution. Rather than try to get a faster monitor, just sync to GPU output  in the 44-75 FPS range.

                                                                     

                                                                    Whilst I can see that Warframe seemed to run at reasonably good framerate on a Single Sapphire HD 7970 OC 6GB Vapor-X when it was overclocked.

                                                                    I cannot say the same about Skyrim SE. Crossfiring definitly pushed the FPS up to >  60FPS indoors. It did seem to be a benefit to me.

                                                                     

                                                                    For the Witcher 3, I was surprised to find a flickering issue and the fact that I needed to turn off In Game AA to run crossfire. It is a relatively new AAA title.

                                                                     

                                                                    I don't know any more than that.

                                                                     

                                                                    Overall though I managed to get workarounds that let me run Witcher 3, Skyrim SE, and Warframe at high FPS with Crossfire on but there are issues that need fixed.

                                                                     

                                                                    Crossfire should work out of the box with the Default Profile (or the "AMD Pre-defined profile"), without all of this effort.

                                                                     

                                                                    Thanks

                                                                    Bye.

                                                                    • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                                                                      colesdav

                                                                      Hi,

                                                                       

                                                                      I have just completed testing Warframe on the 2 R9 Nanos in Crossfire using Radeon Software Version 16.11.5

                                                                      I tested Warframe with all graphics settings maxed out at 1080p, 2K and 4K resolution with Virtual Super Resolution turned on using a 1080p monitor over HDMI.

                                                                      Crossfire scaling is excellent and absolutely no graphics issues to report during testing. Getting very high framerates, even at 4K I see 90-100 FPS during heavy action.

                                                                      ALT Tabbing out and back in or going in and out of game menus causes absolutely no flicker, unlike what I saw with the HD7970/R9280x combo (although it was fine unless you did ALT TAB).

                                                                       

                                                                      I had an IP ban on Warframe. I do not know why.

                                                                      I was able to log in to Warframe by turning off my router for 5 minutes, releasing my IP address, then turning on the router again and rebooting my PC.

                                                                       

                                                                      So of all three games on the R9 Nanos with Radeon Software Version 16.11.5 the crossfire performance is as follows (Frame Pacing and Frame Rate Target Control off).

                                                                       

                                                                      1. Warframe.  - Fine, in fact excellent with Crossfire profile AFR. The Default and AMD pre-defined profile for Warframe turn Crossfire off, which for R9 Nanos is a pity. 

                                                                       

                                                                      2. Witcher 3.  - Fine as long as you turn off in game anti-aliasing and override the AA with AMD settings. I have reported this issue to AMD. Hopefully it will get fixed.

                                                                       

                                                                      3. Skyrim SE. - Mmm - Even if I set AFR profile (Again Default and AMD optimized disable Crossfire). This still has "sunny day brightness" at start up and flicker issues with Crossfire turned on.  Turning off in game AA and overriding with AMD antialiasing helps lots. Provided you do that then at game start up, looking down at the ground and ESC in and out of game menu gets rid of the brightness issue so you can proceed to attempt to play. There is still some, much reduced  flicker though. Especially on water.  From reading Steam forum it looks like is playing hell with Nvidia SLI by the way. There are a few suggestions  w.r.t. changes to the Skyrim initialization files to help with the water texture flicker. I might have a look if I have time later this week. Again I have reported these issues to AMD.

                                                                       

                                                                      And for the HD7970/r9280x on an earlier driver version (previous to Radeon Software Version 16.11.5 - will update with exact one - it's specified in this thread).
                                                                      I saw the following.

                                                                       

                                                                      1. Warframe. Crossfire fine with good scaling, I took a video. Its on this thread.  Only issue is if you ALT  TAB out and back in to Crossfire you get screen flicker.

                                                                      2. Skyrim SE. Crossfire gives positive scaling.  I took a video. Its on this thread.  Only issue is if you ALT  TAB out and back in to Crossfire you get screen flicker. Also I see flicker in game menus.

                                                                      3.  Witcher 3. Not tested.

                                                                       

                                                                      I guess the correct thing to do wopuld be to swap my HD7970/R9280x back in place of the R9 Nanos and test them on Radeon Software Version 16.11.5, but I don't want to do that at the moment.

                                                                    • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                                                                      qwixt

                                                                      I have tried crossfire and SLI, and came to the same conclusion. It is worthless except for wasting money and energy. I decided it's better to spend more getting the higher end card, and live with fewer issues. 2+ cards (Amd or NVidia) is just a headache waiting to happen. It's seems like very few games support crossfire/sli at release.

                                                                        • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                                                                          elpuertorro

                                                                          Nah just hang in there DX12 and Vulkan will fix this as the developers add the multigpu support which at that point won't even matter what brand the GPU is or you mix them, just have to wait it out for now. but for the most part they are on point with 3A titles that are the ones that get the good love sadly.

                                                                          • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                                                                            colesdav

                                                                            Hi,

                                                                             

                                                                            I agree, that it is easier  if money is no option. 1 highest end single GPU for lots of $$$£££??? you get automatic high FPS game support at release.  Go for it. 

                                                                             

                                                                            There are advantages of a two smaller card versus 1 big card solution though.

                                                                             

                                                                            I buy 2 high end "on the way out before next release" AMD GPU's because I need more total GPU processing power for lowest cost possible.

                                                                             

                                                                            I would have loved to have the option to buy 1 AMD Vega but then again, because it will be new, will hopefully be very high performance, then it will likely cost lots.

                                                                            It isn't here yet either. It will be new, so there may be teething troubles.

                                                                             

                                                                            I was looking at getting other high end R9 295x2/ AMD Ares or Radeon Pro Duo second hand but these are crossfired cards anyhow. So they would have the same or possibly worse issues with Crossfire (if they have a special "high performance performance crossfire" circuits). 

                                                                            They are physically big cards with hoses and fans or have additional custom watercooling requirements.

                                                                             

                                                                            I went for the R9 Nanos because they are pretty amazing at the cost I got them for.

                                                                            Two R9 Nanos should perform around 15% better than an ASUS ARES 3 (295x2) anyhow.

                                                                             

                                                                            Then again I get 2 separate cards that can be used in two separate workstations if I want. Or I can keep one and sell one.

                                                                            They are so small I can fit them in a tiny thunderbolt enclosure. I have the option to watercool the R9 Nanos at a later date,
                                                                            and, from data I have seen, hit about the same performance as R9 Fury X anyhow.

                                                                             

                                                                            OK I have some hassle with Crossfire Profiles again. But hey it can be fun getting it fixed sometimes...

                                                                              • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                                                                                qwixt

                                                                                Cooling was a bit of a hassle for me. Plus, I always had a couple of extra steps like disabling ULPS in the registry after updating drivers.

                                                                                1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                                                • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                                                                                  carnage2k4

                                                                                  colesdav

                                                                                  Thanks for all your effort, but I think it's all in vain...

                                                                                  My initial frustration is that I had the cash at the time and got 2 7970s because I wanted to get the most out of my gaming for a good few years, but 4-5 years on, and every game I play I have 1 card running at 100% sitting at 70-80C and 1 card doing exactly nothing...

                                                                                  I feel like; what is even the point of AMD pushing such tech if basically every game I enjoy playing is not supported, it's a completely pointless waste of money, it really is irritating to buy a $300-400 card that essentially just gathers dust and eats power because AMD is to Lazy to bother supporting their own tech.

                                                                                  And what REALLY do not understand is even bothering to have a "Crossfire" profile for games what don't actually use crossfire... I have no words to describe the redundancy in having a crossfire profile whos only job it seems is to turn OFF crossfire... Like... what?

                                                                                  All that tells me is they seen the game exists and purposefully decided to make a profile that will remove the possibility of using one of their systems to run it instead of putting in some effort to make it work with the game.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  IDK if there is a solution in this thread somewhere... it's long and just thinking about it is going to give me an aneurysm, I requested my partner buy me a new (single) GPU for Xmas, so soon maybe I can do away with the crap-pile that is AMD crossfire forever, I'll never make the mistake of thinking AMD can actually support their tech again.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  hyevltg3

                                                                                  Maybe you didn't notice that they are 7970s... What, you think because I posted the latest 2 examples (in a long, long string of AMD disappointment) that this is not the same crap that I've gotten out of crossfire in the, however many years 7970s have been out?

                                                                                    • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                                                                                      colesdav

                                                                                      Hi,

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Thanks, no problem, I can understand your view. I don't think my efforts have been in vain though. Did you try my suggestions out?

                                                                                      If not that's o.k. though. I think this thread has helped others in Warframe and SkyRim SE and Battlefield 1 and Witcher 3 and hopefully AMD will look at it.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      I agree with you, at the end of the day, Crossfire should not require any more than switch it on. It works.

                                                                                      You play the game at high frame rate with good positive scaling and no flicker.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      You get a positive experience, tell everyone how good Crossfire is. Buy anpther AMD GPU and dont go Nvidia.

                                                                                      Thats the theory at least I guess.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      What I do not understand is why the Default or AMD Predefined Profiles are set to off in games.

                                                                                      That really does annoy me. 

                                                                                      That just indicates to me that Crossfire is not worked on or not tested for a particular game.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      In addition, with VR on the way I still think getting customers to buy 2 GPU for VR will likely be needed for some time to come.

                                                                                      So Crossfire and MultiGHPU should still very much be important additional feature for AMD.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      I do not own an RX480 or even 2 of them... The R9 Nanos were a better Performance/Cost for me.

                                                                                      However all reports / reviews I have seen are pretty positive to see that AMD have done a good job on Crossfire for the RX480.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      I am in slight different case where I purchase two GPU for extra compute really. I want most compute power for lowest possible expenditure.

                                                                                      Looking into Crossfire and Graphics is a hobby, and something I do to try to help others out.

                                                                                      1 R9 Nano is a much better performer ~ >=115% than the HD7970/R9280x Crossfire for sure.

                                                                                      I do think that Crossfire and MultiGPU are interesting technology.

                                                                                      I do think it would be good to see much better support for Crossfire and MultiGPU for that matter.

                                                                                      If I could get the same amount of compute in 1 card as I for  for the cost of 2 R9 Nanos, I would have gone for 1 card.
                                                                                      My previous cards were HD7970/R9280x because they were best compute cards at the time. I bought the second one as I needed more compute power.

                                                                                      Crossfire was a side 'benefit'.

                                                                                      For some game titles it is not needed.

                                                                                      For other game titles it is definitely needed. 1 GPU cannot achieve > 60 FPS on Ultra Settings, is where I start to look at it.

                                                                                      It does work really well for some titles.

                                                                                      In this above example I would say Warframe is such a case. 4K, Ultra, > 90 FPS with two R9 Nanos. Minor issue with HD7970/R(280x but even then was useable).

                                                                                      For others it requires some effort. This case I would say Witcher 3. Debugging AFR issues was relatively easy though, but I agree, should not be necessary.

                                                                                      For other Titles it does not work at all / makes the game unusable in Crossfire. Latest recently released SKYRIM SE (surprisingly) with the R9 Nanos is definitely there. The flicker in Crossfire needs fixed. May be some more game settings to look at. 

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Things do get fixed though.

                                                                                      Tom Clancy "The Division" unusable in Crossfire at first release. It was pretty much fixed w.r.t.  flicker in just over 1 month. Scaling improvements for my HD7970/R9280x started to come in within another 4-5 months or so from memory - may have been a bit quicker,  and it is working well now.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      All the best and good luck with your new single GPU.

                                                                                      Any Ideas what you are going for?

                                                                                      I am guessing since you move from a pair of HD7970 possibly an RX480 (Not as good as working Crossfired 7970) or Nvidia 1070?

                                                                                      Or are you waiting for Second Gen RX480 / Vega?

                                                                                      For me Vega was too late to wait unfortunately.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Cheers.

                                                                                      • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                                                                                        colesdav

                                                                                        RE: IDK if there is a solution in this thread somewhere... it's long and just thinking about it is going to give me an aneurysm.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        IDK = I don't know ... o.k. I get it. I thought you were referring to someone else on the thread. My bad. Sorry.

                                                                                        At risk of giving you a headache. Here is my answer.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        For your case: With your HD7970 in your system (Should be pretty close to  my original HD79770/R9280x).

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Scenario 1: Warframe...

                                                                                        =================

                                                                                        Uninstall your drivers. Reboot. Run AMD Cleanup Utility. Reboot. Install Latest Driver (Note last I tested the HD7970/R9280x on was 16.11.4) Reboot.

                                                                                        Turn off all overclocking on CPU.

                                                                                        Start Radeon Crimson.

                                                                                        Set Global settings for Graphics and Overclocking to default.

                                                                                        Turn on Crossfire, and Crossfire logo in Global.

                                                                                        Turn off Frame Pacing and Frame Rate Target Control in Global.

                                                                                        Go to your Profle for Warframe.

                                                                                        Reset Profile Graphics and Overclocking settings. They should now match your Global Settings.

                                                                                        Set the Crossfire Profile to AFR.

                                                                                        Launch the game.

                                                                                        If your system behaves like mine you will see no flicker at launch and provided you stay in Full Screen mode you will be able to play the game at high frame rate with good scaling at 1080p and 2K with Virtual Super Resolution on a 1080p monitor.

                                                                                        I recorded the 2K example in video.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Problems seen:

                                                                                        (1). If I  ALT TAB out to Windows Desktop and Back in to Fullscreen Warframe I see flicker.

                                                                                        I cannot get rid of it in any other way than to relaunch the game. That is a pain.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        I have reported this issue to AMD.

                                                                                        I see no response from AMD guys on this Thread.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        (2). If I  turn on Frame Pacing and or Frame Rate Target Control the game freezes at the end of the 2nd video ~ 5 minutes.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        I have reported this issue to AMD for other games over the past year with practically every Crimson release.

                                                                                        I was testing some proposed workarounds on 16.11.5.

                                                                                        So far I have managed to repeat the PC freezing for Borderlands 2. Tom Clancy "The Division". Crysis 2. Crysis 3. Skyrim SE. on a separate thread.

                                                                                        With each PC Freeze it requires full driver reinstall to get Crossfire working again. Also hjave to reverify game files. Lots of effort.

                                                                                        I will do final testing again on Radeon Relive and then I have had enough.

                                                                                        One year of reporting an issue with no response following consistent  testing and reporting for practically every release gets too much.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        I see no response from AMD guys on this Thread.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        For SkyRim SE, there are some workarounds that have improved things lots.

                                                                                        There is still some work to be done.

                                                                                        I have filed a report to AMD.

                                                                                        I see no response from AMD guys on this Thread.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Since you have a headache already, I suggest you leave it alone.

                                                                                        I will work with someone else on the thread / whoever is around from AMD until we get a better solution.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Thanks again for your reply.

                                                                                        I appreciate your feedback.

                                                                                        Sorry I cannot give you the Correct Answer.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Please leve the thread open for now, as I have asked SKYRIM SE Users of Crossfire to report here if they use crossfire and they see issues.

                                                                                        Lack of additional input to the thread so far has been noticed.

                                                                                        Either no one has problems with crossfire or noi one uses it any more because they have had enough or they don't see the point in even trying to report issues.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Cheers.

                                                                                  • Re: What is even the point of crossfire?
                                                                                    deadlyseven

                                                                                    I agree, very disappointed in my 295x2 and support for it. And for some of the games that do support it I still get some pretty noticeable micro-stutter (Deus Ex Mankind divided and TitanFall2 right now) that ruins the experience. Hopefully AMD can up come with some new powerful single card solutions as I will I be sticking with one card when it comes time to upgrade.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    5390k

                                                                                    32GB RAM

                                                                                    xfx 295x2

                                                                                    EVGA1300 w