61 Replies Latest reply on Oct 15, 2018 10:04 AM by motion

    Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5

    noelc

      ATI Crimson 16.5.2 drivers have lost the ability, via Radeon Additional Settings, to do a full color calibration via per-channel color setup in the Radeon Additional Settings dialog.

       

      Did you think no one would notice?  Did you think that only gamers use your cards?  Did you really think that closing off professional use of your hardware would somehow be better for business?

       

      I actually used this ability to set my three monitors up as an sRGB reference system - all three monitors faithfully reproduced the sRGB color space.

       

      We saw the loss of preset management with the Crimson release, but that could be worked-around using the CLI tool.  Now we see the loss of the ability to configure the settings or load preset settings that had been saved.

       

      Thanks for nothing, ATI.

       

      -Noel

        • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
          dcollins

          I, too, noticed it was missing as it is incredibly important to me. Hopefully it's an accident that it's missing and will return because without it my second monitor looks awful since I can't calibrate it through the built-in display settings. It never worked perfect for me anyway. I remember having to always reactivate it and now it just forgets my settings every time with every start and would sometimes apply my settings to both monitors right when I open Additional Settings to fix it. Drives me insane.

           

          I was hoping it could be improved in some way. Maybe added to the new Crimson UI without losing any of its functionality and now it's gone... *sigh*. Surely there's little to no effort in keeping this feature.

           

          Anyone know of any other free software that allows the amount of color management Catalyst (Additional Settings) had? Ability to adjust the brightness, contrast, gamma of each RGB color on multimonitor set-ups.

          1 of 1 people found this helpful
          • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
            vbkun

            "Did you think no one would notice?"

            Yes they did.

             

            "Did you think that only gamers use your cards?"

            With everything that have been removed on crimson, I don't believe they *think*, I believe they know for sure that only gamers use their cards.

             

            "Did you really think that closing off professional use of your hardware would somehow be better for business?"

            I don't think they think like that, actually they think Home theater users and professionals should be closed off.

            • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
              amdmatt

              You can access this feature via Radeon Settings > Display > Display Color.

               

              We are in the process of moving over existing features from CCC to Radeon Settings.

                • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                  dcollins

                  Display Color in Radeon Settings is just a shortcut to the built-in Windows display calibration and is really limited. We had the ability to adjust the gamma, contrast and brightness of each RGB color individually on each display. The Desktop Color in CCC was flat out removed.

                  2 of 2 people found this helpful
                    • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                      amdmatt

                      Those options are available under Radeon Settings > Preferences > Additional Settings.

                        • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                          evol

                          Ok, and where is gamma setting in this window exactly? Hue, saturation, brightness, contrast, no gamma setting. Don't you guys have more important things to do than removing functionality from driver?

                          2 of 2 people found this helpful
                            • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                              amdmatt

                              The OS Color page should duplicate the same functionality as in Catalyst Control Center.

                               

                              Navigating to Display Color should provide the option to adjust the Gamma, contrast, color balance, brightness etc.

                               

                               

                              4.jpg

                               

                              image003.png

                                • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                  noelc

                                  Matt, it's not helping for you to pretend that any part of the system can do this, and that you can't tell the difference.

                                   

                                  ScreenGrab_NoelC4_2016_05_18_235749.png

                                   

                                  And just so there's no question what the intent of this exercise is, the idea is that one could potentially display a photo on any monitor and expect a reasonable similarity in the colors.  In my particular case, I have need because of my development work for my monitors to all use the same color profile - sRGB IEC61966-2.1 - and behave as an sRGB reference environment.  That is completely doable up through Crimson version 16.3.2.

                                   

                                  ThreeMonitorsMatch.jpg

                                   

                                  Why has this happened?  Did you lose all the people who understand even basic display operation?

                                   

                                  -Noel

                                    • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                      amdmatt

                                      Are you not able to apply the same profile to all displays?

                                        • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                          noelc

                                          Yes, I can use the same profile (sRGB IEC61966-2.1) for all displays.  I NEED to do that - that's precisely the point.  What 16.5 did was make it impossible for me to see the same colors on 3 monitors that provide sRGB output when I do that.

                                           

                                          Differences in the signal generating hardware, wiring, interface response, or whatever, make it necessary to tweak the settings I posted above for each display to get that near perfect color match that you see in my photo.  Being able to trust the color shown is necessary for content creation work.  I write color-managed software.  It's also apparently desirable for gamers to be able to "lighten up dark games" with it, reading the comments elsewhere in this thread.

                                           

                                          I have expressed the necessity to individually calibrate each monitor with the features shown, and which were offered only up to Crimson 16.3.2.  I have been using this technique to calibrate my monitors for many, many years.

                                           

                                          It is not necessary for you to question the need for this configuration capability.  ATI once coded it into the product (along with the ability to save it as a preset and automatically load it at startup).  There has been no new advancement in color-management that makes the feature obsolete.  Thus it cannot be removed or people who rely on the feature will be disappointed.

                                           

                                          -Noel

                                            • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                              amdmatt

                                              Thanks for your feedback, I will pass on it on to engineering.

                                                    • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                                      noelc

                                                      It works for you to pass my thoughts to Engineering?

                                                       

                                                      I guess I would say "that works" if Engineering takes action and restores the functionality. 

                                                       

                                                      I'm no longer in a position to try things in Crimson 16.5 as I have reverted to 16.3.2 - I actually need the functionality and there is no real workaround.  I may try it again if you can show me that there is another way I can accomplish the following:

                                                       

                                                      1.  Assign the sRGB IEC61966-2.1 profile to each monitor (they specifically do display the sRGB profile).

                                                       

                                                      2.  Allow me to fine tune the calibration of each color channel so as to achieve faithful sRGB reproduction through controls equivalent to those I posted above (including gamma, brightness, contrast, or maybe some kind of alternate curves manipulation).

                                                       

                                                      3.  Automatically load the calibration at logon and maintain it properly across things like monitor power-down sleep cycles (e.g. due to inactivity).

                                                       

                                                      Ideally I'd love to be able to do it all 10 bits/channel color, but that's probably asking too much as I realize AMD wants something to differentiate their workstation cards from the less expensive gamer cards.

                                                       

                                                      -Noel

                                                        • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                                          amdmatt

                                                          If you navigate to Windows Control Panel > Color Management you can set different profiles for display device, using the Devices and Advanced tabs.

                                                            • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                                              noelc

                                                              You're just not getting that I need the sRGB IEC61966-2.1 profile to be used for each monitor, and I need the card configuration tools to allow me to set up the system to be an accurate sRGB reference system.

                                                               

                                                              Perhaps you/AMD feel that all end users can just use an alternate profile that has been generated by a calibration and profiling tool, and that may get most people what they want.

                                                               

                                                              -Noel

                                                                • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                                                  vbkun

                                                                  Sorry but "butting in", I think he -amdmatt- gets it. The problem we have here is a support employee (amdmatt) doing whatever he can while a crew of unqualified engineers, who also are pretending to be designers, keeps chopping off features in crimson.

                                                                   

                                                                  I actually started to follow these forums due the removal of video settings (another big "gone with crimson" feature).

                                                                   

                                                                  I guess that if you want a real solution, you got to do what I'm doing, accept that Radeon is no longer suitable for professionals/video enthusiasts and start to look out for a suitable Nvidia model. (after 17 years using radeons I'm having some trouble to accept the necessity to move to nvidia right now, that's why I'm still lingering)

                                                                   

                                                                  Browse around this forum you'll see lots of posts of removed features, then amdmatt doing what he can (while the situation just gets more and more out of control) and forwarding data to engineers (who clearly don't care for whatever support delivers to them). At least I believe that when amdmatt says "Thanks for your feedback, I will pass on it on to engineering.", and the ones to blame are the engineers.

                                                                   

                                                                  This post is sort of a rant, but also a reminder that well, support here is doing what can be done (and a big to amdmatt and staff for the support!). Our problem is really the engineers, and to fix that apparently we'll have to "take our business somewhere else".

                                                                  5 of 5 people found this helpful
                                                                    • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                                                      noelc

                                                                      >I guess that if you want a real solution, you got to do what I'm doing, accept that Radeon is

                                                                      >no longer suitable for professionals/video enthusiasts and start to look out for a suitable Nvidia model.

                                                                       

                                                                      Exactly.  Not having even been able to get anyone to say whether the "pro" drivers for the new Radeon Pro WX cards (e.g., 5100) offer calibration capability, I bought a nVidia Quadro P2000.

                                                                       

                                                                      It has the manual calibration capability I need in the current driver, works in 30 bit color in Photoshop, is quite a bit faster, has so far been perfectly stable, and uses half the power my 7850 drew.  It has been an upgrade in every sense.

                                                                       

                                                                      -Noel

                                                  • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                                    noelc

                                                    amdmatt wrote:

                                                     

                                                    The OS Color page should duplicate the same functionality as in Catalyst Control Center.

                                                     

                                                    Navigating to Display Color should provide the option to adjust the Gamma, contrast, color balance, brightness etc.

                                                     

                                                    By the way, no actual images are shown in this post.

                                                    -Noel

                                                      • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                                        amdmatt

                                                        You can't see the images I've posted?

                                                         

                                                        Have you tried using the Display Color option under Radeon Settings > Displays to calibrate each display?

                                                          • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                                            noelc

                                                            I couldn't see those in particular, no.

                                                             

                                                            This is what I see (this image posted by dragging and dropping into the edit box here)...

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            NoImages.png

                                                             

                                                            Clicking on those "broken image" icons leads me to a page where it looks like it wants me to log on to Office 365...

                                                             

                                                            LogOn365.png

                                                             

                                                            -Noel

                                                              • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                                                amdmatt

                                                                Thanks I've edited my post.


                                                                Can you just confirm that you can configure everything as desired now?

                                                                  • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                                                    noelc

                                                                    That will not be acceptable.  I need to be able to use the sRGB profile, not the one the system generates in its stead when the system gamma, etc. controls are manipulated via the dialogs you've shown.

                                                                     

                                                                    The key issue here is that the card needs to be able to be calibrated to put out a faithful signal.  That calibration is required to compensate for the combination of factors that ultimately add up to the display of information.

                                                                     

                                                                    And there are some additional subtleties involved.  For example, big calibration changes with profiles lead to posterization.  When 24 bit color is all that's available, proper calibration at the interface - such as what I'm requesting and has been lost in 16.5 - leads to things like all 256 shades of gray being displayed, instead of 2 level jumps between adjacent colors.  Smooth gradients without such jumps are the only thing that really makes the use of 24 bit color feasible.

                                                                     

                                                                    I have never tried a workstation card (e.g., FirePro).  Do you know whether these configuration options are being maintained in drivers for those cards?

                                                                     

                                                                    -Noel

                                                            • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                                              tomliang

                                                              I don't want to be rude.....but I register this account just want to say something.....

                                                              Your engineers' IQ must lower than 30 to even dare to remove "Important Features"

                                                              Though the original driver 16.32 could not lode the color profile automatically , I had to go to advance setting and desktop color to "reactive" it..., it was still all good
                                                              But today, your software automatically update to 16.72, and my desktop color just become fxking ugly and completely uncontroable....

                                                              because of someone in this company's ego makes him decide to remove feature, I have to say, no matter what is his ego is, his IQ must lower than 30, and never even test his product himself.

                                                               

                                                              Good job AMD, you lose a royal customer, though everybody say nvidia's graphic is better I sill support you but not anymore, and to that person who is in charge with this matter, I believe you must have a big ego but Sorry, your IQ must lower than 30.  I wish AMD fire you as soon as possible !!!

                                                              1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                          • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                                            qwixt

                                                            Matt, there is no way to launch that additional settings dialog from Crimson. The "display color" button launches a windows color config popup, at least under win 10.

                                                             

                                                            To launch it for 64 bit windows, you must navigate to C:\Program Files (x86)\AMD\CNext\CCCSlim then run CCC.exe in that folder. That's the only way I could figure out how to launch it with the latest drivers.

                                                            • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                                              kind_old_man

                                                              AMDMatt,

                                                               

                                                              Display Color isn't the same as Desktop Color.  You can get to Display Color by Home>Preferences>Additional Settings>Display Color.  But that only allows you to change color for an individual Display and it has no Gamma adjustment.  The Desktop Color setting that allowed you to change the Gamma, Brightness, and Contrast across all of your displays is gone with the 16.5.2 Crimson.  And if AMD thinks that only "professionals" use that feature, they are sorely misinformed.  A large percentage of gamers with AMD GPU's adjust their Desktop Gamma to lighten up dark and dimly lit games - especially FPS's - to allow them to "see" better.  I know I do, and have been for the last 10 years that I have been using AMD GPU's.  But this is a deal breaker for me. 

                                                               

                                                              I hope AMD is prepared to lose a portion of their gamer base and the hundreds of thousands of $$$ that they spend on AMD GPU's, unless someone comes to their senses and puts that "feature" back in Crimson.  Word will get out among the gaming community...

                                                               

                                                              Kind_Old_Man

                                                              1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                                • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                                                  noelc

                                                                  While we are requesting the reinstatement of features, please let it also be known that we would like the preset management, lost in Crimson, to be put back in.

                                                                   

                                                                  By that I mean the ability to save calibration settings, load them by name (which Crimson up to 16.3.2 still does), and have the last used one automatically loaded and maintained by the driver software (which was lost in the first Crimson release).

                                                                   

                                                                  Right now with Crimson 16.3.2 I have had to code a batch file that runs at login to achieve the automatic load functionality that was lost.  Here's what's in it:

                                                                   

                                                                  :! 
                                                                  :!  Seems to be needed twice with a bit of a delay.
                                                                  :!
                                                                       "C:\Program Files (x86)\AMD\CNext\CCCSlim\CLI.exe" Start Load profilename="Noels sRGB"
                                                                       SLEEP 12
                                                                       "C:\Program Files (x86)\AMD\CNext\CCCSlim\CLI.exe" Start Load profilename="Noels sRGB"
                                                                       SLEEP 2
                                                                  :!
                                                                  :!  Now kill the "old" ATI settings application, as it doesn't seem to be needed.
                                                                  :!
                                                                       TASKKILL /F /IM CCC.exe
                                                                       TASKKILL /F /IM MOM.exe

                                                                  -Noel

                                                                • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                                                  dcollins

                                                                  I appreciate your help, but that's not what we're talking about. This is what's gone.

                                                                   

                                                                  03d5656e71543b3435db0db8e625ea21.png

                                                                  1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                            • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                                              sbj

                                                              Can someone please explain me how I can access to the gamma settings with 16.5.3?

                                                               

                                                              With the new update I can't find that. The problem is in some games the environment is too dark, that I need to adjust via gamma settings, which I can't do now.

                                                               

                                                              Please, can you give me some instructions how to enable that or access to that?

                                                              • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                                                hilen10

                                                                I have used amd video cards for over 10 years, even friends saying that "other" is better, but I trust in the saying that the team that ta winning does not change , as well until recently , I was a amd boy fan , I have a 7970 steam x , will more than 3 years and did not have to talk about, but lately the Crimson simply subtratiu instead of add, last subtraction was the loss of these essential color features in my day to day as well , after many years I will have to surrender the "other ," and I hope to come to 1080 and surprise me with all I need , that nothing is able to calibrate my monitors the way I want , I think this is the least the price paid for the video cards. Sorry for my English , I'm Latin and use little English in my day to day. Hugs and good luck to all who continue to AMD.

                                                                 

                                                                Hilen Augusto.

                                                                1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                                • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                                                  fenrysk

                                                                  I share your pain man. I remember posting about how Desktop Color in additional settings wouldn't automatically kick in once they switched over to Crimson from Catalyst and I had to put CCC.exe into the startup folder to force it to load. With the removal of this I'm forced to either roll back to 16.3 myself or wait to switch to the green team too.

                                                                   

                                                                  I used display color and also desktop color but that was the first thing I noticed missing when I rebooted after the driver upgrade.
                                                                  I just tested in 16.6 beta and they have not restored the feature yet.

                                                                  1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                                  • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                                                    noelc

                                                                    Any chance this essential feature is restored in the latest 16.7.2 release?

                                                                     

                                                                    -Noel

                                                                    • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                                                      jdaniel

                                                                      Attempted to upgrade to the 16.7.2 drivers and couldn't believe the desktop color settings were gone. Sure it points to the limited and not good enough windows gamma adjust. The windows gamma adjust has been around for a while and is sorely lacking compared to the numeric sliders that were in previous Catalyst drivers going all the way back to when I started buying AMD products with the Radeon Pro 9700. Sad day indeed when you pay a premium for a graphics card and they remove a feature that's been a part of the drivers for at least 14 years. If the built in windows gamma correction was better we'd already be using it and this would be a moot point. Huge set back.

                                                                       

                                                                      I was already on the fence about jumping to another premium desktop card and I'm 100% certain that if this feature isn't put back in the drivers I'll make that jump in a few months when the prices settle. I'm not waiting around for a competitive offering from AMD when they remove premium features that has been in the drivers for so long and call it an improvement.

                                                                       

                                                                      AMD may think that losing a few loyal customers due to lazy driver options will have small affect overall, but each and every person that has a negative experience because of this will be have a wide ranging influence to others. No matter how good the hardware is if your software is inferior to the competition it will eventually catch up to you.

                                                                      • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                                                        pseudo555

                                                                        And now, even the option in advanced CCC seems to have disappeared... *** seriously ?

                                                                        • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                                                          tbob22

                                                                          This is ridiculous. I noticed on my 4k monitor at 1080p it is stuck at 16-235 instead of 0-255 so everything is very dark but there is no way to change it. At 4k things work just fine.

                                                                          • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                                                            wytchwood

                                                                            Glad I found this page.  My graphics really look washed out, horrible.  I thought it was something I did.  There is no way that the OS display calibration can do what Catalyst used to do.  Not only that, when I first turn on my PC and monitor, the screen is really dark, takes time for it to brighten up.  I've never seen a company go backwards like this.  Hey, AMD, aren't you supposed to be in business for us, the end user?  This is really a crying shame.  I'm not a big gamer but I certainly do appreciate beautiful HD graphics and what I'm left with in Crimson is a joke.  I certainly will be switching over to NVIDIA in the future.

                                                                            • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                                                              blaze_viper

                                                                              I just updated to CU in windows and lost my colour setting, I'm gonna pop a freaking blood vessel after finding out that they removed the colour sliders from radeon, get your damn crap straight AMD. Wow.

                                                                              • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                                                                cartel

                                                                                After 3 years with THE SAME DRIVER I gave up tonight.

                                                                                3 years using the same driver and still no gama control.

                                                                                 

                                                                                2015006.jpg

                                                                                2017069.jpg

                                                                                2017070.jpg

                                                                                2017068.jpg

                                                                                2017071.jpg

                                                                                • Re: Loss of Color Calibration Capability in Crimson 16.5
                                                                                  motion

                                                                                  Free Software (No install)

                                                                                  113 KB!!!

                                                                                   

                                                                                  gammapanel.png

                                                                                   

                                                                                  It doesn't work automatically!

                                                                                  Place the startup folder.

                                                                                  Win7 64 bit running smoothly!

                                                                                  https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/gamma_panel.html