30 Replies Latest reply on Sep 6, 2016 6:19 PM by colesdav

    Crimson 16.4.2 Negative Crossfire Scaling with Division

    rkok

      So after installing the latest 16.4.2 Crimson drivers, the texture flickering in Crossfire for Division is gone which is good. But, now the game is performing very poorly in terms of smoothness.

       

      I have an intel i5930K overclocked to 4.5Ghz. 64GB ram @ 3200 effective mhz . 3x 290x in crossfire (1110 mhz GPU, 1350 mhz VRAM). With the previous drivers i was able to obtain an upwards of 52/55 fps with the game set to ULTRA settings on a QHD display, running exclusive full screen mode. graphics adapter is connected to display via display port. Game is installed on a dedicated SSD.

       

      With this driver update, the frame rates are horrendous. 32 FPS with the same game settings. GPU usage reported by in-game benchmark as risen, while CPU usage has dropped substantially.

      wonder if this is related to the observed poor performance.

       

      In addition to the poor frame rate, the game stutters. during the benchmark, it will intermittently playback a previous frame i suspect ( which is observed as the camera 'zooming out' and then 'zooming back in' in an instant. The display will also 'reset' a few times throughout the in-game benchmark ( observed as display suddenly showing a black frame and returning to normal, in addition to the Display Port symbol showing in the top corner of the display ). During all this, game audio remains uninterrupted. I can't be sure but it looks like the display driver has been restarted by Windows due to a timeout??? 

       

      The only game setting that gives a consistent 55 to 60 fps is the LOW setting. 

       

      Attempting to set the game to ULTRA/HIGH settings while setting render scaling down to 85% substantially improves FPS, however, now the game will not only stutter frequently, it will also exhibit screen tearing, despite V-SYNC and Frame Smoothing enabled, and frame rate pegged to 60fps in game settings.

       

      The only temporary fix i found for this (besides disabling crossfire) is to run the game at ULTRA/HIGH settings + 100% render scaling + Vsync ON + FRTC @ 60 fps + Video@ 1080 Full Screen and allow the GPU to perform the scaling to display. With this i can get 48 (ultra) to 58 (high) fps with no stutter or screen tearing. However the visuals just don't look as crispy sharp compared to when the game is configured to run at full screen native QHD resolution.

       

      Someone from AMD care to respond to this?

        • Re: Crimson 16.4.2 Negative Crossfire Scaling with Division
          colesdav

          I was going to report this to the 16.4.2. Drivers Announcement thread, but it appears that it has now been decided we are not supposed to give any feedback there.

          Here is what I see with my System.

           

          - CPU I7-4770K running at Stock Clocks.

          - GPU 1 (Primary) Sapphire Radeon HD 7970 6GB OC Vapour-X

          - GPU 2 (Secondary) Sapphire Radeon R9 280X 3GB OC Tri-X.

          - 32GB Corsair Ballistix Tactical LP RAM.

          - Primary SSD Crucial 960GB.

          - Resolution = 1080p 60Hz Monitor.

          - No GPU Overclock or overvolt.

          - Frame Pacing turned off (Because it seems to cause my system to freeze after 5 minutes)

          - Crimson settings all default apart from turning off frame pacing and enabling the crossfire logo.

           

          Before anyone complains about my cards not being on the crossfire compatibility chart.

          I asked for an official response from AMD regarding if my cards can be crossfired and if the results from my card cxan be considered  valid.

          They can be crossfired and are valid for crossfire results.

           

          In summary.

          =========

           

          The Good.

          ========

          I see no flicker during running The Division Benchmarks in Crossfire Mode at various settings.

          This is great news from a health and safety point of view.

          It also saves the user having to completely disable Crossfire in Radeon Additional Settings.

           

          I have not attempted to make the Flicker occur in the Division yet. I have not tested Crysis 3 reference benchmark with this Driver yet either. (This is relevant because I can induce simliar flickering effect on Crysis 3 by running additional background processes so total CPU Utilization is > 90% in game).

           

          The Bad.

          =======

          (1). I see almost exactly the same behaviour in terms of FPS numbers as I reported on the 16.3.2 Driver forum previously.

           

          (2). I get overall much better FPS results by disabling Crossfire in Radeon Additional Settings (RAS) and running just with my Primary GPU in Windowed Full Screen Mode.

           

          (3). Although my primary card has 6GB memory it does not use more than 3GB during the benchmark, so I do not see this as a factor.

           

          (4). I see the worst FPS results running with Crossfire Enabled but with windowed  full screen mode in the division.

           

          (5). I still think the game FPS is limited by available CPU Utilisation. CPU Utilization seems way too high in non Crossfire mode.

           

          (6). Crossfire shows negative scaling. I am better to just run with my primary GPU for vast majority cases apart from Lowest Settings in Crossfire.

           

          I will upload my results next. You can compare the results to my previous slides for 16.4.2 testing of "The Division."

           

          So again, for me, on my System, Crossfire is overall just not giving an FPS benefit versus a single card. There is simply no performance scaling for me. In facty the scaling is negative.

          The flickering issue does seem to be fixed in "The Division" benchmark at least.

          I seem to get a drop of about 10FPS in Crosfire versus 16.3.2 at Ultra Settings but that was probably the flicker.

           

          There is only one example I have seen of someone on Youtube getting performace Scaling in Crossfire running "The Division".

          He had a pair of R9 Furys running on Windows 10.

          Funnily enough he also had an i7-3970X processor which has 6 cores and 12 threads, and when I was watching the benchm,ark hios CPU Utilization (given he has 6cores/12threads) never got into the 90% of an i7-4770K CPU Utilization 'Flicker Zone'.

           

          # 413 [game] - Tom Clancy's The Division - R9 Fury | Crossfire | UltraWide - YouTube

          • Re: Crimson 16.4.2 Negative Crossfire Scaling with Division
            colesdav

            I have just submitted a report, again, regarding "The Division" and negative scaling.

            Hope this helps.

            colesdav

            • Re: Crimson 16.4.2 Negative Crossfire Scaling with Division
              marsa

              Chiming in. In game bench results : The Division Crossfire on/off results. - Album on Imgur  Upper one is with crossfire, lower one is in windowed mode because Crimson additional settings was missing crossfire settings so... Here is game settings: Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

              I have better fps now and now flickering due new drivers BUT stutters quite a bit.

              -4790k stock clocks

              -R9 295x2 stock clocks

              -Win10 64-bit

              -16Gb ram

              • Re: Crimson 16.4.2 Negative Crossfire Scaling with Division
                ambiguity

                But we have no flickering anymore! Hurray! lol

                Have some struggling with CF enabled with mix med+high settings

                And my gaming PC is:

                 

                CPU1: AMD FX 8350 @ 4.6 GHz

                GPU1: AMD Radeon HD 7950 3 Gb @ 1050 Mhz (O.C.)

                GPU2: AMD Radeon R9 280x (or 7970 GHz edition as well) 3 Gb @ 1100 Mhz (stock)

                MEM: 2x8 Gb Kingston HyperX Fury DDR3 RAM @ 2133 Mhz

                SSD: Kingston HyperX Savage 240 Gb

                OS: Windows 7 Pro

                • Re: Crimson 16.4.2 Negative Crossfire Scaling with Division
                  colesdav

                  Hi again,

                   

                  So I have just done some 'In Game' tests and again, I see that it is better to run the game with Crossfire Disabled.

                  I get better FPS in game as well as in the Benchmark Results with Crossfire Disabled.

                  When I disable Crossfire I also get generally lower Total CPU Utilization (~ 85% total in game on Ultra with Vsync off versus 95-100% with Crossfire Enabled on Ultra with Vsync off).

                  Since my i7-4770K is completely maxed out with Crossfire Enabled, the game halts / stutters at times.

                  I get generally 10-20 FPS lower in practice In Game with Crossfire Enabled versus disabled.

                   

                  So that's it from me now.

                  Testing completed until a fix comes out to fix the Crossfire Scaling from whoever.

                  Bye

                  colesdav

                    • Re: Crimson 16.4.2 Negative Crossfire Scaling with Division
                      zasy99

                      Wow, my CPU utilization (total, not just the game) is typically %15 - 22% while gaming.  Max I have ever seen during gameplay is 33%.

                      Games that use random seeds to create worlds can go over that during world creation while loading but not during actual game play.

                      This is on a i7-4790k, 24gb RAM, 390x.

                        • Re: Crimson 16.4.2 Negative Crossfire Scaling with Division
                          colesdav

                          Hi,

                           

                          Thanks for the feedback.

                           

                          I report what I am seeing, will send you a plot if you wish .

                          I have killed all unrequired processes before running "The Division" -  Norton, everything.

                          My background CPU Utilization sits at around 10% before Launching.

                          Launch the Division and sit in the Main Menu I see approx 35% CPU Utilization.

                          Run the Division the CPU Utilization sits between 90- 95% with Crossfire Enabled.

                          Windows 8.1 64bit, clean installation. Latest Updates.

                          I made sure I did all my system tests before presenting any results.

                          If you look at the CPU Utilization reported by "The Division" it is pretty high.

                            • Re: Crimson 16.4.2 Negative Crossfire Scaling with Division
                              zasy99

                              The CPU utilization I reported in my previous comment is general for all games I play, 20% +- 5%.

                              My GPU utilization however fluctuates wildly, it can be 5% to a constant 100% depending on game scene complexity.

                              I do not have The Division so I cannot give feedback for that specific game.

                               

                              Do you have such high cpu utilization only on Division or also other games?

                                • Re: Crimson 16.4.2 Negative Crossfire Scaling with Division
                                  colesdav

                                  I took some reference benchmark numbers, again using Crysis 3, on the 16.3.2. driver release thread.

                                  I will point those to you next.

                                  Crysis 3 runs really well in crossfire and in single GPU. I see excellent scaling (2x).

                                  The Crysis 3 CPU Utilisation is much lower than the Division.

                                  I think the issue regarding flicker and scaling is that the CPU utilization with a single GPU on the Division seems too high to me for Crossfire to scale.

                                  I can induce flicker in Crossfire on Crysis 3 if I run additional background processes so I push my CPU Utilization up to around 90- 95% on the 16.3.2. driver.

                                  Also reported this. 

                                  • Re: Crimson 16.4.2 Negative Crossfire Scaling with Division
                                    colesdav

                                    Crysis 3 results start here: Roughly 65%-70% Total CPU Utilization in Crossfire @ 100 FPS on Max possible Graphics Settings with no CPU Overclock.

                                    Single GPU wioth Crossfire disabled the CPU Utilization is in the order of 40-45%. I run Crysis 3 because it is supposed to be hell for CPU/GPU. It was the toughest I had seen before "The Division".

                                    https://community.amd.com/docs/DOC-1494#start=100

                                • Re: Crimson 16.4.2 Negative Crossfire Scaling with Division
                                  colesdav

                                  And I just double checked, all my cores and threads are enabled.

                                  So that's 4 cores, 8 threads, on an i7-4770K run at stock clocks.

                              • Re: Crimson 16.4.2 Negative Crossfire Scaling with Division
                                r2daizzzo

                                When will they have a solution

                                • Re: Crimson 16.4.2 Negative Crossfire Scaling with Division
                                  mgx_violator

                                  I am also having a problem with the latest AMD drivers. I am having very low FPS with crossfire enabled (20-25).  Inorder to use crossfire in THe Division i have to role my drivers back to 15.12 in order to take advantage of crossfire (however its very "laggy" when i do this)

                                  Any help would be great!

                                   

                                  Radeon Setup.gif

                                  • Re: Crimson 16.4.2 Negative Crossfire Scaling with Division
                                    en9dmp

                                    Sorry to bump this old thread, but do we know if AMD are aware of this and working on a fix? The have been a number of revised beta drivers since 16.4.2 and none of them even have this problem listed under "known issues"...

                                     

                                    Can anyone from AMD comment on this?

                                      • Re: Crimson 16.4.2 Negative Crossfire Scaling with Division
                                        en9dmp

                                        @amdmatt Can AMD respond on this please?

                                         

                                        Scaling is non-existant, stuttering is extensive, workarounds suggested on other threads turning off power efficiency do not make a difference. Is AMD working on a fix, or are we resigned to the fact that this AAA title will never properly support Crossfire? There is no acknowledgement of these issues in the known issues section of all drivers since 16.4.2.

                                         

                                        I'm running 2 Fury Xs, i7-4790k, 32Gb RAM

                                      • Re: Crimson 16.4.2 Negative Crossfire Scaling with Division
                                        colesdav

                                        Hello.

                                         

                                        I have been keeping an eye on the performance of "The Division" for the past 6 months, and I have been updating every AMD driver to see if performance would improve. I noted in the Crimson 16.8.1 release notes the following comment:

                                         

                                        • The Division Poor CrossFire scaling may be experienced in some low resolution configurations when using AMD CrossFire technology mode.

                                         

                                        I have tested 16.81, 16.82 and I am now on Crimson 16.8.3.
                                        The Negative Scaling issue has been fixed for me.

                                        Quick summary is I am able to run "The Division" on Ultra benchmark and achieve a positive scaling factor of +42% versus running Full screen with Crossfire Disabled (i.e. my FPS increases by a factor of 1.42 now).


                                        It would be great if the scaling could be improved further so I could get consistently above 60 FPS with my cards, however this is a big improvement on what I was seeing with Crossfire on "The Division" until now.

                                         

                                        This means I can run the Division at 1080p Ultra with SMAA Ultra AA and Vsync and FPS limit set to 60 FPS.
                                        I see  no Flicker in Crossfire and run the game at around 56-60 FPS average range which is a significant improvement over the 42 FPS
                                        average I was getting on my system previously on the Primary Card with Crossfire Off.

                                         

                                        I would like to take this opportunity to thank the AMD Team and whoever they worked with at Ubisoft to
                                        provide support for Crossfire and fix the Flickering and Negative Scaling issues on my system.

                                        Getting Crossfire Support on this game did take a while, but Crossfire was never advertised as supported on "The Division" in the first place.

                                        Thanks for implementing Crossfire Support on this Title .

                                        I will provide some detailed numbers and screenshots next, and may try out Eyefinity on Triple 1080p's to check for flicker.

                                         

                                        My System is as follows.

                                         

                                        CPU: i7-4770K

                                        GPU 1: Primary      = Sapphire HD 7970 OC 6GB Vapor-X
                                        GPU 2: Secondary = Sapphire R9 280X OC 3GB Tri-X

                                         

                                        Note: My cards are not on Crossfire Compatibility Chart.
                                                 : (I have overclocked CPU by 16% and GPU'S by 10%).

                                         

                                        Thanks.

                                        colesdav