12 Replies Latest reply on Apr 28, 2016 7:45 AM by kingfish

    Why in the world would you not have a crossfire forum

    kingfish

      People do not come to the forum to look for crossfire problems before they buy that second card. They come here afterwards. Percentage-wise, the majority of questions here on the forum are about crossfire problems, why wouldn't there be a forum for these users? Put all the crossfire questions together so they are easy to find? It's pretty obvious the 'search' feature is not being utilized, or there wouldn't be hundreds of posts like "crossfire not working on____________________(fill in the blank).

        • Re: Why in the world would you not have a crossfire forum
          colesdav

          Hi,

           

          Instead of asking this question, can you create a Crossfire Forum and get things started?

          ================================================================

          I am pretty new to the AMD Community forums, so I do not know what can be done to structure the look of the forum pages.

          I think the forum would have to be arranged with some form of structured tabs or links to work well.

           

          Example:

           

          - Top of the page should be AMD Crossfire Compatibility Chart information.

          - Next level should be links or tabs for GPU Series.

          - Under GPU Series should be particular games and issues / solutions.

          - Use of Plays.TV as evidence of problems / solutions is useful.

           

          I have  questions / points  in response to you and a few thoughts about Crossfire.

          ===========================================================

           

          (1). Would AMD Marketing and Technical teams be interested in backing a "Crossfire Campaign"?

           

          (2). I think there is a very important issue that AMD are not addressing well enough with the current Crossfire situation. - Cross Generation Crossfire Support.

           

          I understand the easiest and most short term profitable thing for AMD is for users to ditch their HD7970 and go out and buy a single  R9 Fury X or Polaris.

           

          In reality and practice users typically:

           

          (A). Already spent their money on a high end version of AMD card (for example HD7970).

          (B). Are pretty happy / impressed with their AMD GPU (provided they did their research and bought what they needed that is.)

          (C). Might not see enough performance / new feature benefit for their particular needs to move from current generation card to the next generation(s).

          (OK, I admit the R9 Fury X / Polaris are very tempting though).

          (D). May have or wish to purchase a few high end / demanding games where they start to need / would like a performance boost at low cost in the meantime.

           

          Crossfire is a potential solution if users have the above needs.

           

          When Crossfire meets those needs then think about the effect this has on the user base in terms of brand loyalty and happiness.

          I can tell you. I am pretty happy about it.

          Based on my experience my next new GPU will be AMD. My next build is likely have an AMD CPU if Zen meets expectations.

           

          (3). If AMD do want to push/promote  the benefits of Crossfire to users, here is why  Cross Generation Crossfire Support needs attention.

           

          This is based on my experience.

           

          I think it is very important it is to leave the door open to users with previous generation cards to upgrade to a next generation card.

          Currently you pretty much need to decide to Crossfire when you purchase your card or at least early within the first year of purchasing your card.

           

          In practice, once the new generation cards hit the market you have a very short time frame left to find and purchase a new card of the previous
          generation before they disappear from the market. You then end up in the situation where you look on Ebay for a second hand card and hope

          that it has not been overclocked to death / actually works when you get it.

           

          In my case I was in the above exact situation. By the time I decided I needed a second GPU, and looked into Crossfire my HD7970,  I was unable to purchase a new HD7970 card anywhere at reasonable cost. There were plenty on Ebay of course, but buying a high end GPU on Ebay was just a step too far for me.

           

          I got lucky though. You can actually crossfire a HD 7970 with an R9 280X.  But this type of "Crossfire Compatibility" was not on the AMD Crossfire Compatibility Chart.

           

          It took me lots of research to work out what *should* work. There are different types of R9 280X. Complete HD7970 "Re-badged" versions and "Modified Chip" versions. The R9 280X felt like a risky purchase for me at the time. It wasn't exactly what I wanted either (Its 3GB not 6GB memory).  I would have preferred an AMD Cross Generation Crossfire Compatibility Chart  to show me which option I had in the R9 200 series exactly. Before I purchase I prefer not to have to do lots of technical research, searching Internet forums. I prefer *will work* to *should* before spend money. Time to research is not without cost of course.

           

          Although I am very happy with my Crossfire setup (It performs very well indeed) there is still a problem.

          If  I do hit technical issues I am in the potential limbo space of "It's not on the Crossfire Compatibility Chart".

           

          I hope this answer helps.

          Please take it in the supportive manner it is intended. I spent the time to respond at 5:00 a.m. in the morning. For some reason I care about this issue :-).

          I am very impressed with AMD GPU's and products in general.

           

          Bye

          colesdav.

            • Re: Why in the world would you not have a crossfire forum
              bearcat22

              I have two questions

              A) Why would somebody buy a Fury that probably won't work properly out of the box?

              B) Why do people think things are going to be different with the release of Polaris?

              I for one am not going to be rushing out and paying good money for the privilege of being a beta tester for AMD.

              I'm hanging onto my money and HD 7970's until something changes at AMD and Nvidia. Even if it means no Crossfire and having to turn down game settings.

               

               

              Intel 3930k, Asus Rampage iv Formula, Enermax 1250 EVO Galaxy, Corsair CML16GX3M4X1600C8 Low Profile 4 x 4GB, 150 gig VelociRaptor(32meg), Crucial M500 240GB SSD, 750 gig wd Caviar, 2x Sapphire HD 7970, LG Blu-ray burner,Corsair 600T case, Swiftech H220x Cooler, Bios 1305, Win7 Pro 64bit, Samsung S27A850DS Monitor 2560x1440

                • Re: Why in the world would you not have a crossfire forum
                  colesdav

                  Hi,

                   

                  RE:

                   

                  (1) Why would somebody buy a Fury that probably won't work properly out of the box?

                   

                  I don't know. If they did buy one and it didn't work it would be defective and they should ask for a replacement from the supplier I expect.

                  Is this something specific with respect to the R9 Fury that I have missed?

                   

                  (2) Why do people think things are going to be different with the release of Polaris?

                   

                  In general it is based on 16nm/14nm FinFet for one, which is a big perfomance jump in silicon process to make in one generations of GPU's (28nm -> 14nm) and Transistor technology (new FinFet transistors) and based on what I have seen much additional work has been done by AMD to ensure low power consumption with high performance both at the circuit design level and with modifications to the new GCN Architecture.

                   

                  I found the following article very interesting regarding the new Polaris GPUS.

                  AMD Polaris GPUs Will Bring A Historic Leap In Performance And Efficiency - Exclusively Built On 14nm Technology

                   

                  I have seen a CES 2016 demo video of an early version of Polaris versus an Nvidia card which is very impressive.

                  CES 2016: AMD Shows Polaris Architecture Demo - YouTube

                   

                  If you mean in terms of Crossfire Support for games that have been newly released then I think that it is a complicated issue to work on.

                  Game developers may be focussed on getting their games to work on Single GPU solution first as I am guessing a smaller percentage of users have dual Crossfire cards in their Systems. They may not be working with AMD to make sure Crossfire works. I don't know exactly.

                   

                  (3). I for one am not going to be rushing out and paying good money for the privilege of being a beta tester for AMD.

                   

                  O.K.  I do not think they have asked anyone to do that.

                   

                  (4). I'm hanging onto my money and HD 7970's until something changes at AMD and Nvidia. Even if it means no Crossfire and having to turn down game settings.

                   

                  O.K. - My '7970' Crossfire Solution is working very well for me at the moment and since I am on 1080p I don't quite see the need to spend money on a new GPU solution for my main PC/Workstation just yet. I haven't hit a game that I have looked at yet where I have had to turn down Graphics Settings to make it playable in Crossfire at 1080p on single monitor. Triple monitors with Eyefinity Display Setup... yes a few games I have had to lower AA settings from max to be able to play them.

                   

                  colesdav.

              • Re: Why in the world would you not have a crossfire forum
                kingfish

                I just counted the posts containing crossfire issues for the past two days. Of course that was hard to do as I had to look in the "General Discussion" forum, the "Graphics" forum, and the "Drivers and Software" forum to total them all. There must be some logic behind refusing to give the number one posted issue a category/forum of it's own (CROSSFIRE)...and spreading the posts among three different forums instead of putting them all in a central location....but I sure can't see it. Logic is thrown out the window.

                  • Re: Why in the world would you not have a crossfire forum
                    colesdav

                    Hi,

                     

                    Perhaps there are not enough Crossfire users to justify a separate Forum?

                    Does anyone know the percentage of AMD GPU Users who use Crossfire?

                     

                    I thought your idea of having a separate Crossfire Forum was a really good one.

                    Many Crossfire users are interested in the performance gains they see on Games which are supported with Crossfire.

                    We could probably post useful benchmark type data similar to the AMD Red Team with it's 3D Mark Firestrke Benchmarks.

                    Some really impressive numbers to see there especially the R295x2 .

                      • Re: Why in the world would you not have a crossfire forum
                        kingfish

                        The idea of having a crossfire forum is not to post wonderful benchmarks. That is not the purpose. The purpose is to post issues. The purpose is to put similar issues , and solutions to issues, in a central location where crossfire users can read them before posting an identical question..that possibly could have been answered a hundred times already.

                        The Red Team Forum is a better venue for touting wondrous/ponderous  benchmarks. The crossfire users are a tiny fraction of AMD users worldwide....just as gamers are a small percentage of AMD users.....but way more prevalent than crossfire. Now if there was a 'Overclockers' forum......

                          • Re: Why in the world would you not have a crossfire forum
                            colesdav

                            Yes I know the purpose is to post issues and responses to questions.

                            If you have issues on a game and you are not getting the expected performance, at least you can look to see what someone can achieve with Crossfire set up correctly. Thats all I meant.

                              • Re: Why in the world would you not have a crossfire forum
                                kingfish

                                And fill up the forum with your tests/revelations/conclusions, etc. (All of which are based on unsupported hardware....AMD has already told you that.) We deal on this forum with supported graphics cards in crossfire from users who are all not computer geeks who just want to play a game. Suggestions to underclock/overclock/EUFI/third party tools,etc confuses and intimidates a lot of people. A dedicated Overclock forum would be the place for that. Then users can compare their setups. Red Team.

                                  • Re: Why in the world would you not have a crossfire forum
                                    colesdav

                                    Thank you for that unprovoked personal attack.

                                    Goodnight.

                                    • Re: Why in the world would you not have a crossfire forum
                                      colesdav

                                      RE: And fill up the forum with your tests/revelations/conclusions, etc. (All of which are based on unsupported hardware....AMD has already told you that.) We deal on this forum with supported graphics cards in crossfire from users who are all not computer geeks who just want to play a game. Suggestions to underclock/overclock/EUFI/third party tools,etc confuses and intimidates a lot of people. A dedicated Overclock forum would be the place for that. Then users can compare their setups. Red Team.

                                       

                                      My response.

                                       

                                      (1). No intention of filling a Crossfire Forum up with tests, I guess you are talking about 16.3.2. release testing I did? If the moderator told me to I would have opened new threads.  Looks like Release threads are locked now anyhow so that won't be a problem in future anyhow.

                                       

                                      (2). RE: (All of which are based on unsupported hardware....AMD has already told you that.)

                                      No they didn't. My Hardware is not on the Crossfire Compatibility chart, which is what I said in my first response to you on this thread.

                                      It  only discusses cards of the same generation. I couldn't get an exact matching card. I did my research. I bought a compatible card from another generation. That's it.

                                       

                                      (3). Since you said the above, I asked for an official response from AMD. Here it is:

                                       

                                      The R9 280x is a refreshed version of the HD 7970 with newer features and tech but they share the same GPU Core (Tahiti).

                                      All of these GPU's are compatible with each other: 7990, 7970, 7950. R9 280, R9 280x........any combination of those cards will work together in Crossfire because they are all from the same GPU family (Tahiti), the same goes for Hawaii/Grenada (R9 290, 290x, 295x2, 390, 390x) and Fiji (R9 Fury, R9 Nano, R9 Fury X, Radeon Pro Duo) etc etc.

                                       

                                      So assuming the above response is actually correct, there should be no more argument, other than the fact that if AMD want to sell more new cards they might want to think about producing a Cross Generation Crossfire Compatibility Chart which states the information above as it might help increase sales.

                                       

                                      (4). Calling someone a Geek where I am from is definitely not a compliment.

                                       

                                      (5). I have not been suggesting anyone Underclock/Overclock/its UEFI/ third party tools on the Crossfire Forum.

                                       

                                      (6). Crossfire is easy to set up and run. Install a card, add a crossfire bridge (if needed). Enable Crossfire in Radeon Additional Settings.  It usually works fine for me.

                                       

                                      (7). I was only suggesting giving people an indication of FPS scaling you could expect for a particular game with a particular card at stock (default clocks).

                                       

                                      Example wouild be like this:

                                       

                                      CPU         GPU1     GPU2     FPS (Crossfire off.)     FPS (Crossfire on).  Scaling   Driver

                                      i74770K   HD7970  HD7970   50                             100                               2x       Crimson 16.3.2

                                       

                                      Not a benchmark, just an indication to people regarding what Crossfire Scaling they could expect to see on a particular game provided everything is working fine,

                                      which it normally does.

                                       

                                      If someone wants to set up a Crossfire Forum then I think it is a great idea, and I would be glad to contribute.

                                       

                                      Finally this is really worth watching. Multi-GPU will move to be handled by the developer in Vulkan or DX12 in future.

                                      AMD's Raja Koduri talks moving past CrossFire, smaller GPU dies, HBM2 and more. - YouTube

                                        • Re: Why in the world would you not have a crossfire forum
                                          kingfish

                                          You maybe should put a disclaimer on all your posts that you are using a unsupported pair of cards in crossfire and that your results are not typical...and users with supported cards may not have the same results.

                                          From AMD driver support:

                                           

                                          Response and Service Request History:

                                          As I understand that you want to know whether you can enable crossfire setup with Radeon HD 7970 GPU and Radeon R9 280x graphics card. You cannot find it in the crossfire compatibility chart. If I have missed any critical information about your inquiry please let me know as my suggestion below may change.

                                          Please note: as per the AMD crossfire compatibility chart, the both graphics card are not compatible for crossfire setup. AMD recommends using the same series graphics card for crossfire setup.

                                          I Hope the above suggestions will help you in resolving the issues and in case if you need any further assistance please do get back to me as I would be happy to help you out.

                                          Please be informed if we do not receive response to this email within next 10days, your service request will get closed automatically in our system and you will require to create new service request on your issue again.

                                           

                                          In order to update this service request, please respond, leaving the service request reference intact.

                                          Best regards,

                                          AMD Global Customer Care

                              • Re: Why in the world would you not have a crossfire forum
                                nospheratu

                                I wholeheartedly support this suggestion. Wading through each separate sub-section of the forum, thread by thread to view other CrossFire users experiences is cumbersome.

                                 

                                Searching is also not very intuitive even when using the * parameter as I've seen members refer to CrossFire with varying names including the the abbreviated CFX.