10 Replies Latest reply on Feb 24, 2016 3:21 AM by amdmatt

    CCC or Crimson + Legacy GPU + Windows 10

    orbitstorm

      Bit of a long title, no?

       

      I recently updated my wife's Toshiba Satellite L505D-GS6000 from Windows 7 to Windows 10. I know, I know.. it's an older system but for the meager PC selection she chooses to play (Sims 4, Civ5, WoW and a few others) it is still plenty serviceable.

       

      Unfortunately, the GPU is the ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4200 and while a "courtesy driver" driver is available, there has been a noticeable frame hit. I'm inclined to believe this is because this "courtesy driver" doesn't include an installation of Catalyst Control Center or the new Crimson edition and that leaves me unable to disable settings (such as anti-aliasing) that tend to be on by default and hinder GPU performance for older cards.

       

      That said, I'd like to know if there's any way to retain the current driver while making use of CCC or Crimson (whichever is required). I'm aware that I can rollback to an older legacy driver that includes CCC but I'm skeptical of its performance on Windows 10.

       

      Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

        • Re: CCC or Crimson + Legacy GPU + Windows 10
          kingfish

          Those drivers from Microsoft are not the result of any "backlash", they have been available since day 1 of the Win10 release. The 4xxx series cards do not meet the specs that Win10 requires..these drivers allow the computer to function albeit at a basic function. Your best bet is to revert to the OS the computer/laptop was designed for. You gain none of the advantages of Win10 (especially for gaming). Why have a crippled computer that operates on a basic level rather than a fully functional computer that performs as intended? There are no AMD drivers for legacy cards for Win10..and there will not be.

            • Re: CCC or Crimson + Legacy GPU + Windows 10
              orbitstorm

              Odd that for a "guru", you're apparently significantly less informed than the folks at Tom's Hardware.

               

              ".. they have been available since day 1 of the Win10 release"

              Perhaps but given that AMD didn't acknowledge these drivers until August 2015, it prompted an enormous number of threads seeking supporting for legacy GPUs.

               

              "The 4xxx series cards do not meet the specs that Win10 requires.."

              Odd, given that Microsoft says otherwise. NVIDIA released driver support for their legacy GPUs, including much older series as well, because -gasp!- this "not supported" shtick is just that.

               

              "..these drivers allow the computer to function albeit at a basic function"

              Your definition of "basic function" should be forwarded to AMD's developers; it might help them when creating their products given that they'd be far more proficient. If these drivers only offered "basic function", this laptop would be virtually incapable of playing any titles found on Steam, or WoW for that matter. Unfortunately for your theory, I'm able to do both but a lack of configuration options (i.e. not having CCC) has detrimental impact on framerate.

               

              "You gain none of the advantages of Win10 (especially for gaming).."

              .. What? In totality, this is the dumbest portion of your response. Naturally I'm not expecting gaming "advantages" on a six-year old laptop. I chose to upgrade the system for a myriad of reasons, namely that Windows 7 is unsupported and the laptop was due for a fresh start. I wasn't about to spend $40+ for media recovery discs from Toshiba for an OEM installation and I'm sure as hell not going to buy a new Windows 7 license.

               

              "Why have a crippled computer that operates on a basic level rather than a fully functional computer that performs as intended?"

              You're embellishing at this point. I'm beginning to think your title of "guru" is more a result of being a yes-man than someone who offers knowledgeable support.

               

              "There are no AMD drivers for legacy cards for Win10..and there will not be."

              An example of why AMD products are garbage. AMD is the only GPU manufacturer that abandons their products every few years, under the guise of "technological advancement".

               

              In short, I asked for a solution, not an opinion. I'm aware that there are workarounds for what I seek so for the sake of constructive discussion, I'll just disregard anything you choose to add to this thread going forward. I'm not interested in condescending, self-righteous material from "gurus".

                  • Re: CCC or Crimson + Legacy GPU + Windows 10
                    goodplay

                    I wonder what triggered this :-1.PNG

                     

                     

                    Edit. ray_m amdmatt

                    1 of 1 people found this helpful
                      • Re: CCC or Crimson + Legacy GPU + Windows 10
                        orbitstorm

                        As luck would have it, I was able to chat with a Microsoft tech that pointed me in the right direction. Evidently, they've had a number of inquiries for workarounds and were able to direct me to a support thread that had a handful of solutions, found here.

                         

                        I initially tried to install AMD VISION Engine Control Center (using AMD_Catalyst_13.4_Legacy_Beta_Vista_Win7_Win8) and deselecting the display driver in the process but for whatever reason, additional settings (namely 3D Application settings) wouldn't display. So, I used AMD's Cleanup Utility and wiped any AMD drivers/software, reinstalled 13.4 (using Win7 compatibility mode), allowing the display driver to install as well, then updating the driver to the current version, 8.970.100.9001 and all is well -- current driver with "CCC" options.

                         

                        Frames are noticeably better as well, as I was able to set the GPU in max performance mode. System is significantly faster than it was before with Windows 7, with the added benefit of Windows 10's features and apps.

                         

                        Quite incredible really: Microsoft not only had to release drivers for AMD's legacy GPUs but provide support for getting those GPUs to function properly with Windows 10. I can say with absolute certainty that I made the right choice in purchasing NVIDIA for my desktop. If only I had known what I know now when purchasing this laptop in 2010!

                        1 of 2 people found this helpful
                    • Re: CCC or Crimson + Legacy GPU + Windows 10
                      kingfish

                      "The 4xxx series cards do not meet the specs that Win10 requires.."

                      Odd, given that Microsoft says otherwise. NVIDIA released driver support for their legacy GPUs, including much older series as well, because -gasp!- this "not supported" shtick is just that.

                       

                      They do not. Mickey Mouse your way around it but you can't fool (as a example) WDDM 2.0 which is not backward compatible and will be the standard for apps and programs> Windows Display Driver Model - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                       

                      "..these drivers allow the computer to function albeit at a basic function"

                      Your definition of "basic function" should be forwarded to AMD's developers; it might help them when creating their products given that they'd be far more proficient. If these drivers only offered "basic function", this laptop would be virtually incapable of playing any titles found on Steam, or WoW for that matter. Unfortunately for your theory, I'm able to do both but a lack of configuration options (i.e. not having CCC) has detrimental impact on framerate.

                       

                      All those titles play just as good/better on the designed OS without the "I'm able to do both but a lack of configuration options without the ". But now you have released the 'required information' that is going to give you another headache. You have a Laptop. You have switchable graphics if your laptop is 6 years old. Helpful would be mentioning your processor ..the exact model..then we can figure out the rest and point you to another inconvenient truth.

                       

                      "You gain none of the advantages of Win10 (especially for gaming).."

                      .. What? In totality, this is the dumbest portion of your response. Naturally I'm not expecting gaming "advantages" on a six-year old laptop. I chose to upgrade the system for a myriad of reasons, namely that Windows 7 is unsupported and the laptop was due for a fresh start. I wasn't about to spend $40+ for media recovery discs from Toshiba for an OEM installation and I'm sure as hell not going to buy a new Windows 7 license.

                       

                      False. Untrue. Bovine Caca. Windows 7 is supported. And I have two Toshiba laptops both have a "Owners Manual" offline available to read. I'm sure yours' does too. In it you will find out how to start the OS Recovery. It is a built-in /partition and restores the laptop to the original state.

                       

                      "Why have a crippled computer that operates on a basic level rather than a fully functional computer that performs as intended?"

                      You're embellishing at this point. I'm beginning to think your title of "guru" is more a result of being a yes-man than someone who offers knowledgeable support.

                       

                      Nope. I am a "guru" because I have been around for eight years with a fair amount of experience. And I have read many posts over the years just like yours. You should include in your posts what responses are acceptable...that way you don't have to read the truth and become enraged. And let us know how that graphics thing works out for you after a couple of days.

                      Oh...and thanks for your input

                       

                      Note for the angel on my shoulder I've been polite, see? ray_m ?

                        • Re: CCC or Crimson + Legacy GPU + Windows 10
                          orbitstorm

                          If only Jive had a facepalm icon; it'd be most useful in response to you.

                           

                          "They do not."

                          Per Windows 10 Specifications - Microsoft: DirectX 9 or later with WDDM 1.0 driver. The Radeon Mobility HD 4200 is WDDM 1.1 enabled.

                           

                          "WDDM 2.0 which is not backward compatible and will be the standard for apps and programs"

                          Your point is...? I do not need a WDDM 2.0 capable card to use Windows 10. I do not care that the HD 4200 is not WDDM 2.0 capable as an overwhelming majority of apps that require it are AAA titles or beyond the means of the GPU itself. As I've already said, of the selection of games that my wife still plays on this laptop, not one of them require a DX12 card. You're perpetually feeding me bad information; insisting that this laptop's hardware can't possibly support Windows 10 when it can and it is. I never said that this laptop was intended as a long-term solution; I'm currently in the process of building a new desktop for my wife (using NVIDIA + Intel products).

                           

                          "All those titles play just as good/better on the designed OS.."

                          I beg to differ. Windows 7 is a resource hog by comparison to Windows 10, notably because of Aero themes and the system had become sluggish after six years of use. Reformatting the drive or resetting the device to factory settings wasn't an option because I refuse to purchase media recovery discs from Toshiba or an entirely new license from Microsoft for an OS that is essentially dead. This laptop was shipped with an OEM SLP key which is presently locked and unusable for upgrades or even a clean installation of Windows 7 itself.

                           

                          "Windows 7 is supported."

                          Guessing you don't follow the news, even if you've had nearly two years to catch up:
                          Microsoft Will End Windows 7 Support - Business Insider

                           

                          "And I have read many posts over the years just like yours."

                          I'm well aware but hindsight is always 20/20. A brief glance at your post history shows a clear pattern of pompous behavior with other users. This thread is no different: instead of assisting in a solution, you try to upsell and discourage -- essentially the exact same thing that AMD's Customer "Care" team does on social media for most of their products (including current products).

                           

                          "You should include in your posts what responses are acceptable...that way you don't have to read the truth and become enraged."

                          I haven't seen any relevant truth in your posts with the exception of correcting my assumption that the driver was released by AMD. If you think that somehow bothers me that you were right (in reference to your cutesy "nice edit" response), you're terribly mistaken. If anything, that only reaffirms my opinion that AMD and their products are trash (i.e. Microsoft had to do their jobs for them).

                           

                          "And let us know how that graphics thing works out for you after a couple of days."

                          Implying what, exactly? That's a rhetorical question. I'm sure you'll have some trite yet elaborate tale of how this GPU can't possibly support Windows 10.

                           

                          The irony in all of this is, you're lecturing me for using a dated GPU yet insisting I return to a dated Operating System that only receives the occasional security update. Tagging a couple of techs with an inside joke and (making a half-dozen edits over the span of thirty minutes) speaks volumes of your character (or obvious lack thereof); perhaps even an inferiority complex. I'm not intimidated nor am I going to hold my tongue when the teacher's pet is posting facetious material.

                           

                          Guys like you are a dime a dozen so don't flatter yourself.

                    • Re: CCC or Crimson + Legacy GPU + Windows 10
                      goodplay

                      http://tenforums.com

                      Graphics Cards(you will find posts with supposed workarounds).

                      • Re: CCC or Crimson + Legacy GPU + Windows 10
                        amdmatt

                        HD4xxx series graphics cards are almost 10 years old, we are now dedicating our engineering resources to supporting customers who are using current GCN based graphics cards. I'm sure you understand.

                         

                        Please keep replies to each other courteous and polite, I have no problem with our Guru's offering alternative solutions so thank you Guru's. I will lock the thread if i see anymore little digs at each other.

                        2 of 2 people found this helpful