31 Replies Latest reply on Mar 15, 2016 10:54 AM by gemini002@hotmail.com

    Why are the drivers so terrible right now? Can't play games

    sharky7337

      I have owned AMD cards for a while now (since my 4850) and not had any regrets until recently.

       

      My specs:

      Windows 10 64

      3770k

      7970 x2 saphire boost

      32bg ddr3 trident x

      1tb ssd samsung

      9tb HD toshiba

      1050 watt psu XFX gold

      Asus Maximus V formula

       

      I have tried the latest 3 drivers all after a lean uninstall with DDU.

       

      15.7.1 -- Plays most games ok but COD Black ops 3 is really bad

      15.11--Plays COD better, but wont allow SWTOR or GW2 to launch, random freezes in BO3

      15.11.1--Random freezes in BO3, and GW2 and SWTOR wont launch

       

      Yes I understand I'm on windows 10, and its relatively new, but this is really unacceptable.

       

      I have to change drivers just to play certain games because between the 3, none of them work properly.

       

      I have tried creating custom profiles, disabling ULPS, trying to change compatability settings, checked just about everything I can and I'm very knowledgable when it comes to computers, programming, networking.

       

      Are these issues going to be fixed with any time soon? Really debating being done with the tediousness of the drivers and their issues and jumping ship.

        • Re: Why are the drivers so terrible right now? Can't play games
          adrenalinemech

          I feel your pain man. I am about ready to rollback my OS due to this unacceptable driver performance and even then the drivers probably aren't much better if you have a 300 series card.

            • Re: Why are the drivers so terrible right now? Can't play games
              waltc

              I can't say that...Running the Crimson drivers (under the CCC shell only because I want to be able to change screen resolution from inside the driver interface) my R9 380 has never run so well.  I've got--well, north of 100 games installed atm, some brand new--some going back 30 years--and every single one of them runs without a hitch.  Win10x64v1511. 

               

              IMO, culprit is Crossfire (not that AMD's is any worse than nVidia's SLI.)  It's only with D3d12 that multi-gpu support has come to the API (and so to Windows itself)--but we are still a ways out from developers actually writing game engines that require d3d12 to run--meaning problems with xFire/SLI are to be expected in all dx11 games and earlier.  Some games tolerate it without a problem--some games won't run well or at all in xFire/SLI mode.  But that's nothing new--it's been that way ever since nVIdia usurped 3dfx's "SLI" terminology to introduce custom driver support for multiple gpus that runs outside of any API, OpenGL or D3d (I always preferred the 3dfx method of having each gpu write every other scanline because the work distribution there is ideal--but nVidia has never done it like that and neither has AMD.)  Shortly after nVidia resurrected its non-scanline-interleaving tech 3dfx pioneered as "SLI"--AMD followed suit with xFire.

               

              My advice for the moment would be that in xFire/SLI rigs that don't run certain games well or at all, to turn off xFire/SLI for those games, and see how things go.  I had an xFire rig several years ago, but when a single 5750 proved as fast as my two 4850's working in xFire, I decided that single gpus were the ticket for me after that...;)

                • Re: Why are the drivers so terrible right now? Can't play games
                  qwixt

                  I am going to agree with Waltc and say it's most likely crossfire + win10 causing your issue. I have win 10 as well, and I have never crashed so much with a windows OS, and I have been using it since a month before win 3.0 came out. My crashes were not because of the amd drivers. I have not gone a whole week without some sort of crash/lockup/failure to shutdown. I use amd crimson beta drivers, and I am happy with them now that I can create custom resolutions.

                   

                  Try playing with one card to see if that changes stability.

                    • Re: Why are the drivers so terrible right now? Can't play games
                      sharky7337

                      Thanks for the response guys.

                       

                      I already disabled crossfire in the applications profiles...... That is of course one of the first things I tried.

                       

                      Same results...

                       

                      Not to mention the applications profiles barely function as well. Globally I cant even adjust the power percentage. It just goes back to default every time I try to slide it forward.

                       

                      And when I disabled crossfire in profiles I still saw some slight utilization (more then idle) so..... That again would be a bad software issue.

                       

                      One or two GPU's I still get the same result that games that will launch with 15.7, wont launch with 15.11. And crossfire is enabled in 15.7.1.

                       

                      So it must be crossfire. That's grasping at straws.

                       

                      The fact remains that the drivers do not function properly. I can post video of the issues if you would like.  And i really enjoy my display driver has recovered after not responding crashes 10 times a day if I do want to play Black Ops 3.

                       

                      And there's a mega thread on reddit about it.

                       

                      This is what AMD advertises about crossfire:

                       

                      Harness the power of multiple GPUs

                      AMD CrossFire™ technology is the ultimate multi-GPU performance gaming platform. Unlocking game-dominating power, AMD CrossFire™ harnesses the power of two or more discrete graphics cards working in parallel to dramatically improve gaming performance.1 AMD CrossFire™ technology ready graphics cards fit practically every budget. With the flexibility to combine two, three or four GPUs, AMD CrossFire™ technology is the perfect solution for those who demand extreme performance.

                      Delivering E xtreme Performance

                      By combining the intelligent software algorithms of the AMD Catalyst™ suite with dedicated scaling logic in each AMD graphics processor, a gaming rig equipped with AMD CrossFire™ technology can deliver several times the performance of a system with a single graphics card.2,3 That’s performance you can count on to build your empire, take the pole position or keep your platoon alive.

                      See It in Extreme Detail

                      Let other people worry about optimal settings and resolutions. Multiple AMD Radeon™ graphics processors give you and your system the power to see every game just as the developer intended: in up to extreme high definition, with razor sharp clarity and uncompromising detail.

                      Get Extreme Flexibility

                      Whether you’re a grizzled veteran or fresh from basic, there’s an AMD CrossFire™ solution to meet your needs and budget. With a complete range of AMD Radeon™ graphics cards, flexible configurations and an array of partnerships for AMD CrossFire™-certified motherboards, cases and power supplies, it’s easy to dial in the performance you deserve.4 Still need more? Add another AMD Radeon™ graphics card at a later date and take your rig to the next level all over again.

                      AMD CrossFire™ technology is also the perfect way to help extend the life of your system. If you’re tired of turning back the settings or lowering the resolution, another AMD Radeon™ HD graphics card could be the shove your system needs to get back in the game.

                       

                       

                      This is what I expect. Regardless its poor development and coding.

                        • Re: Why are the drivers so terrible right now? Can't play games
                          waltc

                          Well, you should not expect it, honestly, whether it's nVidia or AMD--it's the same.  It is a custom AMD/nVidia technology not supported by any pre-dx12 3d APIs or by Windows. Sometimes it works well, sometimes not so well, and sometimes not at all.  Depends entirely on the game.  The reason I say you should not expect it is a simple one: knowing the difference between marketing hype and reality.  You visit web sites and forums and read up on these things before you buy.  Look, when you buy a car you don't stop at reading the manufacturer's advertising for the car, do you?  Of course not--you seek out 3rd-party reviews and unbiased opinions and criticisms *before* you buy.  Only then do you make your decision.  It's no different with 3d cards at all, imo.  Caveat Emptor.  An educated buyer is a happy buyer, etc...;)

                           

                          That's not to say I approve of this sort of marketing, don't get me wrong.  I was initially opposed to ATi following nVidia's lead into resurrecting multi-gpu support for the same reason that xFire & SLI don't work all that well today: there's no support in the API(s) and it's a custom bag of tricks one has to play on Windows for it to even work at all!  So there is no doubt that xFire/SLI will either fail, cause problems, or not work at all--sometimes.  The fact is that today's crop of gpus is so powerful that you simply don't need two of them--the exception being 4k gaming, atm. But, I also don't like GPU manufacturers advertising that some of their weak GPUs are "4k ready" and that sort of thing--when they are not.  But that's advertising for you.

                           

                          I hope that as d3d12 and its OpenGL counterpart gain traction that this will begin to change--since xFire won't be outside of the API/OS anymore...we shall see.  All the same, Caveat Emptor is as good advice today as it has ever been.

                          1 of 1 people found this helpful
                      • Re: Why are the drivers so terrible right now? Can't play games
                        sharky7337

                        Walt, just because the windows DX API didn't natively support it doesn't really mean anything.

                         

                        Is it more efficient to use API's ? Yes.

                         

                        The program is compiled to machine code and executed (in this case drivers). So they couldn't use windows API before and had to program it themselves with other coding techniques. Doesn't really matter.

                         

                        There was limitations in their previous method on hardware allocation. Alright that's great but not relevant.

                         

                        I write applications that use API's sometimes I can't. And I have to use other means. Doesn't mean it doesn't work. Just means the method to achieve it is different.

                         

                        They sell the product with that functionality. That is not my fault I bought a product they themselves say is supported.

                          • Re: Why are the drivers so terrible right now? Can't play games
                            waltc

                            Well, what not being in the API means is that support for it is custom with both nVidia & AMD.  It's always been a *custom* technology, and accordingly, since it isn't in the API it isn't supported by Windows, and that means many developers won't create engines that support it--as we've seen many examples of games that don't support xFire down through the years.  What being a part of the API means is that any developer who writes a d3d12-compliant game engine (a game that requires d3d12) will have to support xFire/SLI.  Putting it in the API not only improves the support (by providing a method whereby two 4GB xFire cards can actually use all 8GBs of their total ram--instead of just copying each other) but makes the development of actual engines that support xFire much more likely.  

                          • Re: Why are the drivers so terrible right now? Can't play games
                            adrenalinemech

                            It has nothing to do with crossfire. If you own a R9 300 series card the driver performance is really just unacceptable. You can actually see reduced GPU usage in some games which equates to lower frame rates. I feel sorry for anyone that bought a R9 Fury series to play Battlefront for the Holidays. The Crimson drivers are so bugged that the menu fonts are missing for the windows in the settings screen when you are waiting for a match to start in game. But you can roll back to 15.7.1 and there are no broken textures or skies in game. So what we have is a total regression in driver performance with the new drivers. Ohhh and did I mention that Battlefield 4's performance also goes in the tank with Crimson drivers. All solved by rolling back to 15.7.1.

                            1 of 1 people found this helpful
                              • Re: Why are the drivers so terrible right now? Can't play games
                                waltc

                                It's not quite that simple...;)  The assumption that gpu activity less than 100% means lower frame rates just isn't so categorically.  Many factors come into play...such as cpu restrictions, resolution, etc.  I've got a benchmark for instance that opens a tiny window only fractionally the size of the screen but can pump the gpu to 100% activity--it's doing other things than punching pixels, obviously.

                                 

                                I own an R9 380 4GB & I don't notice any diminished frame rates with the Crimsons--at least that is perceivable by me when playing (without some artificial visual crutch running to convince me how much "slower" they are.)  But then, I'm running the Crimsons inside the Catalyst CC shell and not through the Crimson interface.  People are assuming that the Crimson interface must entail a lower overhead than the Catalyst interface--because .Net isn't being used--but I'm not so sure about that at all.  (cnext.exe seems to use a lot more ram, 41MBs, than the < 10MBs used by CCC.exe.)

                                  • Re: Why are the drivers so terrible right now? Can't play games
                                    adrenalinemech

                                    Same machine, same games, different driver version its pretty simple. You must be playing solitaire or some other GPU non-intensive games. Obviously you are using GPU-Z to put a synthetic load on your GPU to pump it up to 100% but that is not even the point of the conversation. in reference to your comment "The assumption that gpu activity less than 100% means lower frame rates just isn't so categorically." If you can roll back a driver and run a program and get your GPU to reach its maximum clock speed in a game while watching GPU usage with HWMonitor or some other program.... then install the latest driver and repeat the same steps and see the GPU usage at half its rated clock speed say 495mhz on a R9 380 4GB that has a clock speed of 1030mhz without changing anything else then it is pretty clear that the latest driver is inadequate.

                                     

                                    And as I mentioned in earlier in the post the current driver breaks several "Triple A" titles that run fine and have less or no GFX issues.

                                    This forum is full of complaints about bugs and performance with the 300 series cards in numerous game titles, most of which were performing better prior to the Crimson release. So it is MY opinion that the new drivers in their current state are not acceptable performance wise.

                                     

                                    We are suppose to be trying to help each other solve their technical problems here so that others can play their games and enjoy their computing experience. Not posting a bunch of useless info about "artificial visual crutches and benchmarks" that mean absolutely nothing.

                                    1 of 1 people found this helpful
                            • Re: Why are the drivers so terrible right now? Can't play games
                              mwnn

                              I hope the actual release 15.12 Crimson driver is a little better than this.

                              http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/AMD-Radeon-Software-Crimson-Edition-15.12.aspx

                              AMD Radeon Software Crimson Edition 15.12 (Cached)

                               

                              More known issues on the list than resolved =P

                               

                              There's only two new fixes listed compared to 15.11.1 - surely that list isn't complete?

                               

                               

                              For anyone who doesn't know - you can install a particular driver - say Catalyst 15.11.1

                               

                              And copy the DLL files from here into each affected games folder:

                              AMD Driver DLLs Repository and Performance Survey - Guru3D.com Forum

                               

                              To avoid having to switch between driver sets for a particular game.

                              • Re: Why are the drivers so terrible right now? Can't play games
                                xboxshqip

                                I don't have CrossFire but yeah, there are problems, I will test more games.

                                 

                                Perhaps today, I was just messing around in GTA V and spinning the tires on dirt, frame drooped to 34fps like the game was utilizing PhysiX.

                                 

                                We can only hope at this time that they get fixed , and keep reporting bugs and stuff.

                                1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                • Re: Why are the drivers so terrible right now? Can't play games
                                  nilsatis

                                  My rig: 2500k@ 4.6ghz and gigabyte r9 290 @ stock clocks. 8gb Kingston Hyper x ram; running Windows 10 (latest update).

                                   

                                  Just thought I would voice my opinion on the performance of these drivers. I have had absolutely fantastic performance in all of the 50+ games I have tried with the new BETA crimson drivers. Like everyone I had the fan bug on the WHQL release (which is absolutely unforgivable tbh AMD), and I also experience compass corruption in Fallout 4. Aside from that, performance has been great. I am noticing on *some* games there seems to be a bug where browsing on the web becomes slow when alt tabbing out of a game etc. and this really is the only thing I have noticed; apart from maybe.....the temperature at idle/load going up slightly in a lot of games.

                                   

                                  I have not used Overdrive to overclock and quite frankly would never use it to overclock. There are better tools out there, but I have heard there are also problems with this; they need to be fixed. Clocks getting stuck at the upper edges of an overclock is not good.

                                   

                                  Aside from this I find it really, really odd that people are experiencing completely different results from the new drivers...is it the new 300 series in particular that is not liking them I wonder, as my experience has been really good. Noticeably smoother (without specific frame rate increases imho) and gaming wise...solid and bug free aside from Fallout 4.

                                  Due to purchase Just Cause 3 in next few days...will see how that goes as have heard it doesn't run too well on AMD. Everything else has worked great. 

                                  • Re: Why are the drivers so terrible right now? Can't play games
                                    sharky7337

                                    So crimson 15.12 today.....

                                     

                                    GW2 still launches to black screen... unplayable

                                    SWTOR same -- balck screen unplayable

                                     

                                    Way to go! these are the released drivers that aren't beta?

                                    • Re: Why are the drivers so terrible right now? Can't play games
                                      robbymac20

                                      I am in the same boat.  I literally cannot play Guild wars 2 unless I go back to drivers from August and CCC.

                                       

                                      Does anyone know if it is possible to keep CCC, but download JUST the new version of the drivers.  Then install JUST the driver, not the Radeon software. Then just have CCC run the new driver instead of the new Radeon program?  Or will not work?

                                       

                                      Do not care much about the GUI as much as I care about the driver version being up to date so all games run as they should.  Although I wish I could use the new virtual resultion setting in the Radeon program, however if not I will live.

                                       

                                      Thoughts?

                                        • Re: Why are the drivers so terrible right now? Can't play games
                                          nilsatis

                                          I find it hard to believe that this driver causes GW2 to "not work". I have just finished playing Gw2 tonight with that same driver, excellent performance; and no crashing. I even use Reshade on mine (sweetfx variant). Are you using the 64 bit client? If not, use it. When you say it doesn't work; what does it do? Gw2 is made using an ancient engine, and has its problems; especially recently since they added HOT. Look into going into appdata/roaming/guild wars 2 and delete local.dat. Then try to run the game again. They have recently had a bug that made setting reset. Deleting local.dat will mean you will need to type in yr password and acc information again but it will rebuild the config for gpu etc and you will need to adjust this again. If it is still "not launching" then there is a different issue. I would possibly point the finger of blame at anet; who are woeful to put it mildly at tech support and also possibly the fact you haven't properly cleaned the old drivers from your system before installing the new Crimson ones. Did you use DDU? And then manually search for amd folders/files? If not, do that and try it all again. This would also explain why only the "older" Catalyst drivers like to work. You also didnt list your pc specs and card etc. which is quite important. Much older cards will probably receive no benefits from Crimson so have no fear in sticking to the old drivers.

                                           

                                          Regarding GW2: FACT: On Windows 10 If you use a Nvidia Mobile card atm you will find it absolutely broken; with artifacting/broken textures and hanging on map load. You are then forced to play with NO VSYNC and massive screen tearing to avoid this, or alternatively....and this is the best bit....run the game in Windows 7 compatibility mode; even if you never had Windows 7 installed. But AMD users are having no problems, I use the forums quite frequently so am aware of a lot of the issues GW2 has at the moment.

                                        • Re: Why are the drivers so terrible right now? Can't play games
                                          robbymac20

                                          I figured it out!

                                           

                                          Press CTRL ALT Delete and go to the task manager.  Click the performance tab.  Check to see what it says for memory usage.  Mine was at 90%.  To help, windows 10 tip feed is bugged, turn it off.

                                           

                                          Go to settings > notifications & actions > then scroll down to "show me tips about windows" and turn it off.

                                           

                                          After I did this the memory went down to about 50%.  Still seemed weird.  So, this is what to look for.  Go back top the performance tab in the task manager.  Click "memory" from the left hand side.  At the bottom you will see some values.  If "Non-Paged Pool" is above 400 mb's (mine was 2.4 gb), then you got a problem.

                                           

                                          To figure out which driver is causing such a big amount of non allocated memory.  To check for this memory leak.  You must download the Windows WDK. After downloading navigate to the folder in which you install it and look for this file:

                                          Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\10\Tools\x64\poolmon.exe

                                           

                                          Open poolmon and click into the window and click "b" on your keyboard and it will sort by drivers that take up the most bytes.  Mine had a weird name and after google searching, I found out instantly it was from my ":killer network" drivers.  I then googled how to shut them off and that they were causing memory leaks and I found a command that someone told the forum to type in CMD prompt to turn them off.  It turned the driver off and after checking back ionto Poolmon, I saw the bytes where gone and I now had only 240 mb's running in the "non-paged pool" of the Perfromance tab in my task manager.

                                           

                                          Then guess what, NEWEST CRIMSON DRIVER 15.12, running and I am able to now run Guild wars 2, no crash on startup, no error, works just fine!!!!

                                           

                                          You are very welcome everyone!

                                          • Re: Why are the drivers so terrible right now? Can't play games
                                            sharky7337

                                            Just tried hotfix drivers .... more like a hotbreak....

                                             

                                            Still cant launch or play SWTOR or GW2 or any application in fullscreen.

                                            • Re: Why are the drivers so terrible right now? Can't play games
                                              iainob1

                                              All of the drivers post and pre Crimson have troubles with windows 10. I have tested them all over and over.

                                               

                                               

                                              The new crimson beta and previous betas all have problems with directx 9 games.

                                              The game profiles for dx9 games do not work. You can not disable crossfire at all in dx9 games. Also it may be that crossfire isn't actually working correctly too. mine shows the usage goes up on card one but the temp is higher on card 2 and the fan is at full power on card 2.

                                               

                                              once you have installed any Crimson driver even uninstalling the drivers properly using dud and clearing files in he registry still does not stop these issue. I had to wipe the drive and reinstall windows 10. The drivers that windows loads automatically crash when installing them every time too. It goes to a black screen and I have to restart the pc.

                                              It is the drivers that are at fault. The drivers for windows 10 do not work period. Black screens, broken profiles, broken dx9 broken crossfire. For some they can't enable crossfire some you can't disable crossfire.

                                              If I put my old gtx 680 into the same system all works perfect even dx9 games. Skyrim is night and day difference with nvidia it just does not work with amd in Windows 10.

                                              Amd and windows 10 is going to loose a lot of customers this round as we can't have our cards being made into paper weights by incompetant drivers