18 Replies Latest reply on Aug 8, 2015 10:49 AM by hardcoregames™

    16384MB DDR3-1833 sticks

    hardcoregames™

      While a tad expensive, I have noticed DDR3-1833 sticks being offered in 16384MB capacity. So can my old Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition be able to recognize and support such extreme RAM.

       

      The sticks have more or less 2 rows of chips on them and they are about $150 each at the moment so 4 of them would set me back about $600

       

      That would be 64GB which would be extreme for AMD machines

        • Re: 16384MB DDR3-1833 sticks
          Thanny

          Not likely.  Depending on your motherboard, you can probably only support 16GB or 32GB total (i.e. max DIMM size 4GB or 8GB).

           

          Which is just as well, as you'd almost certainly never be able to put that much memory to use, unless you want a lot of RAM drive capacity.

          • Re: 16384MB DDR3-1833 sticks
            esmea

            I am currently using my Phenom II 945 as a diagnostic measure to an unrelated problem with my FX-9370. I have managed to get my 32GB (4x8GB) DDR3-2133MHz RAM to work with the CPU, but only when I bring the memory frequency down to 1333MHz.

            This is the case with all Phenom II processors: the maximum supported memory frequency for DDR3 is 1333MHz. (this is not factoring overclocking, I do have some older DIMMs that work with the 945 at 1866MHz)

             

            As for DIMM size, refer to your motherboard's specifications for maximum supported memory. (you didn't list the model, so I am unable to look it up for you) By this, I do not mean the Qualified Vendor List(QVL), but just the basic motherboard specifications.

             

            If anyone else has actually achieved function with memory size greater than the motherboard's specification, please mention it.

             

            64GB would be fantastic for use with Radeon RAMDisk (I'm eager to push the boundaries of my 64GB license)

             

            From what I understand (and have found documentation on), 4GB DIMMs are common only because Intel did not anticipate that capacity would grow at the rate that it did, so they did not design their processor's memory controllers to accept DIMMs larger than 4GB (I'm sure this is no longer the case with newer models).

             

            I've also come across 32GB DIMMs, and even ECC/Registered 16GB DIMMs.

              • Re: 16384MB DDR3-1833 sticks
                hardcoregames™

                those 32GB sticks are also attractive and would go nicely in my rig but they are a tad expensive

                once again, i think i would need a BIOS update so that I could stuff 16GB or 32GB sticks in the slots

                 

                I am aware that JEDEC specs for DDR3 go even higher but I am not sure if the BIOS has the tables for dual and quad banks of memory, some memory sticks have an extra row in each side to increase the capacity

                 

                I have G.Skill DDR3-2133 and my Phenom II X4 965 BE C3 can support the JEDEC DDR3-1600 speed fine

                 

                The XMS tables are separate so my CPU can use that memory fine

                 

                I am using the Asus M5A99FX PRO R2.0 motherboard

                  • Re: 16384MB DDR3-1833 sticks
                    esmea

                    Ahh, I'm curious if the later C3 stepping revision (nov 4, 2009) makes all the difference there. My 945 is only a C2 stepping (I purchased it 1 month before the C3 stepping came out). I can imagine that they refined the memory controller between the revisions.

                      • Re: 16384MB DDR3-1833 sticks
                        hardcoregames™

                        The C2 version is 140W and the C3 version is 125W so there are some improvements to reduce power consumption

                         

                        I suspect that there was also some tweaking of the memory controller to support the fastest JEDEC speeds and available memory

                         

                        I bought my CPU in 2010 which was well after then C3 was delivered. All I care is that my CPU has been adequate for gaming for several years and it has not let me down.

                          • Re: 16384MB DDR3-1833 sticks
                            esmea

                            Well, I did make a twin to my system when I bought the 945 (I picked this one instead of the 965BE because it was the fastest 95W CPU at the time; it was rated the best performance/watt), and I have yet to upgrade that one. It has yet to run into any deficiencies for gaming. Considering that it is nearly 6 years old, I consider this a massive success in future-proofing.

                            That does make me wish I had waited a month, though.

                             

                            I'll be playing with some overclocking in a few hours, I'll let you know if I manage to get the memory to work at a faster JEDEC timing. If I can, it may signal the ability to do the same with denser memory.

                      • Re: 16384MB DDR3-1833 sticks
                        Thanny

                        Intel didn't even have a memory controller on the CPU until the i7 debut.  When it did, though, it supported only 24GB max over three channels.  I'm not sure whether that could be one 8GB DIMM per channel or not, though there certainly weren't any to choose from at the time.

                         

                        The current generation of i7 processors support up to 64GB, which seems to be what the latest AMD processors support as well.

                         

                        The server models, of course, support more.  Opterons support 1TB of RDIMM/LRDIMM memory and 256GB of DIMM memory., while Xeons support 768GB/1.5TB RDIMM/LRDIMM memory and 128GB of DIMM memory.

                         

                        Software support is another issue, at least with Windows.  I recently built a pair of servers with 256G each in 16GB RDIMMs, and had to use Server 2012 instead of 2008 R2 (which is otherwise suitable and less annoying), because Microsoft arbitrarily limits the 2008 R2 Standard license to 32GB of RAM, and I didn't feel like forking over an extra $2000 per server for enterprise licenses.  You need Pro/Ultimate version of Windows 7 to go above 16GB, though normal Windows 8 goes up to 128GB.  Windows 10 will probably follow trend and remain higher than anyone is likely to go on a desktop.

                          • Re: 16384MB DDR3-1833 sticks
                            ryansmith2

                            Our system only runs 32GB and it handles running multiple artwork and graphic design programs at the same time. There are some pics in the slider here http://www.uniprintqld.com.au

                            • Re: 16384MB DDR3-1833 sticks
                              hardcoregames™

                              Even the base SKU of Windows Server can use more than 32GB of RAM

                               

                              64-bit only is an advantage if the program is 64-bit and its developed properly. Photoshop was slow to move to 64-bit etc.

                               

                              Memory Limits for Windows and Windows Server Releases (Windows)

                               

                              RAM sizes are larger because Samsung is making 8 gigabit chips which is as far a JEDEC could see from back when the developed the standard

                                • Re: 16384MB DDR3-1833 sticks
                                  Thanny

                                  vegan:

                                   

                                  Even the base SKU of Windows Server can use more than 32GB of RAM

                                  There's no base SKU of "Windows Server", because there is no such product.  The Standard Edition SKU of Windows Server 2003 [R2] supports 4GB for the 32-bit version and 32GB for the 64-bit version.  Windows 2008 [R2] Standard has the same limits (though there's no 32-bit version of R2, only the original 2008).  Only with Windows Server 2012 Standard is the memory limit raised to 4TB.  The more "base" versions (Essentials and Foundation) are limited to 64GB and 32GB, respectively.  Prior to the 2012 version, you needed an Enterprise or Datacenter license to enable more than 32GB of RAM.

                                   

                                  vegan:

                                   

                                  64-bit only is an advantage if the program is 64-bit and its developed properly. Photoshop was slow to move to 64-bit etc.

                                  I'm trying hard to think of a way that this statement could be construed as true, but I'm failing.

                                   

                                  If you have a machine with 4GB of RAM, and never run a single 64-bit program, you're still better off with a 64-bit OS, simply to be able to use all 4GB of that RAM.  With a 32-bit OS, you're losing address space to the graphics adapter.  With several GPU's, you can easily find yourself with only 2.25GB out of 4GB accessible.

                                   

                                  Obviously to address more than 4GB of RAM, you need a 64-bit OS (ignoring PAE, which is irrelevant for any desktop version of Windows).

                                   

                                  And once you have a 64-bit OS with lots of memory, even 32-bit programs will get more memory if they're marked as large address aware.  Instead of only a 2GB address space under 32-bit Windows (or 3GB with the /3GB switch that rarely works properly), you get the full 4GB to work with.

                                   

                                  So those are three distinct advantages to a 64-bit OS without invoking any 64-bit applications.

                                    • Re: 16384MB DDR3-1833 sticks
                                      hardcoregames™

                                      I have accumulated a large collection of 64-bit versions of productivity programs, from 7-zip onwards. 64-bit programs run separate from the Win32 address block which is thus freed from additional loading, so more room for legacy packages

                                       

                                      I only have 8192MB of RAM installed, not rich enough for more, and not really needed. No game has overloaded main memory yet, but there are empty slots of it becomes necessary.

                                       

                                      PAE was marketed back with Windows 2000 Server as web servers back then were choking with the load due to lack of memory, databases like SSD more than RAM

                                  • Re: 16384MB DDR3-1833 sticks
                                    esmea

                                    That 24GB limit was 4GB per DIMM. Intel's more modern i7 controllers now use quad-channel, which is why motherboards for them feature 4-8 DIMM slots instead of 6.

                                • Re: 16384MB DDR3-1833 sticks
                                  esmea

                                  So, after some testing, the short answer is: yes, you can go well over the motherboard's "maximum supported amount" without any problems.

                                    • Re: 16384MB DDR3-1833 sticks
                                      hardcoregames™

                                      I was hoping somebody with more $ than me owned a bunch of  16GB sticks that they could try on various boxes

                                        • Re: 16384MB DDR3-1833 sticks
                                          esmea

                                          I think a lot of us wish that described us perfectly.

                                          Even after I upgrade to Zen next year, I'm certain that I'll still have quite a few systems in my house running on old, recycled hardware. I'm sure I can find an excuse to buy up a few 16GB (or 32GB) sticks when I get the cash.

                                            • Re: 16384MB DDR3-1833 sticks
                                              hardcoregames™

                                              DDR4 bumps the maximum chip size to 32 gigabit which will allow for some increase in the memory stick size

                                               

                                              right now Samsung is making 8 gigabit chips so that is only 2 die shrinks up, based on doubling the size each time. Not sure if anyone will be able to make 32 gigabit memory.

                                               

                                              32 gigabit chips will afford for 64GB sticks assuming AMD Zen supports the full JEDEC spec. Timings are biggest area that a BIOS has to consider when setting up the memory.

                                               

                                              server sticks with 2 rows on a side are taller, and some extreme rigs might use them for workstation jobs

                                               

                                              I would be happier with 8 memory slots so that max memory is perked up. 4 sticks on each side of the CPU would work. This would leave some room for the cooler as well. This way gamers can use lower capacity memory chips and still have 64 GB of main memory.

                                               

                                              Hardcore Games™: DDR4 RAM