18 Replies Latest reply on May 15, 2009 1:35 AM by bpurnomo

    Update Radeon ® 3D Programming

    0r@ngE
      Will ATI and AMD to update this resource?

      I would like to know why the ATI/AMD does not update the information on this page
      http://developer.amd.com/gpu/r...ing/Pages/default.aspx
      and whether they will soon do so?
      It is also very outdated their OpenGL extensions registry.
      And finally - when they released a new SDK?

      It is unfortunate that nVidia actively cares about developers and regularly updates information, and information from ATI/AMD badly outdated. It is hope that ATI/AMD is soon corrected.

      Thank you in advance for your reply.
      = [0r@ngE] =
        • Update Radeon ® 3D Programming
          0r@ngE
          Is anybody here?
          Or do I have to move to another subject?
          • Update Radeon ® 3D Programming
            avk
            IMHO, ATI division of AMD has no sufficient human resources as nVidia has. I mean that ATI has enough very talented hardware designers and engineers, who have made the excellent RV770, but, I think, ATI has not enough talented software engineers.
              • Update Radeon ® 3D Programming
                Firestrider

                On the bottom of the page it says "Rate this page"... click on that and leave feedback on what should be updated or changed.

                • Update Radeon ® 3D Programming
                  0r@ngE
                  Originally posted by: avk

                  IMHO, ATI division of AMD has no sufficient human resources as nVidia has. I mean that ATI has enough very talented hardware designers and engineers, who have made the excellent RV770, but, I think, ATI has not enough talented software engineers.


                  Granted, the hardware is good, but it is under the hardware we write code, and we need the information. For ATI / AMD many extensions to OpenGL (GL_AMD_performance_monitor, GL_AMDX_vertex_shader_tesselator, etc.) But it was not clear how to use them. It is a pity that such a good hardware left without proper support.
                • Update Radeon ® 3D Programming
                  avk
                  Perhaps, you should to find another source of information about ATI OpenGL extensions, maybe in some OpenGL community.
                  • Update Radeon ® 3D Programming
                    0r@ngE
                    Yes, of course, I do. But ... This is something wrong =(
                    I think that hardware developers better know their hardware and their information must be the most complete and accurate.
                    Ok, thanks to all for answers.
                      • Update Radeon ® 3D Programming
                        bpurnomo

                        Hi,

                          Thank you for the feedback.  I'll try to find who should be responsible to update the documentation in the page.  Unfortunately, due to our limited resources, even if I am able to find the group responsible to update the page, they might decide that it is not in their high priority list to do.  But, I'll see what I can do (but no promise).

                         

                          • Update Radeon ® 3D Programming
                            0r@ngE
                            Originally posted by: bpurnomo
                            I'll see what I can do (but no promise).



                            Thank you a lot!
                            With best regards, =[ 0r@ngE ]=
                              • Update Radeon ® 3D Programming
                                0r@ngE

                                Along with their new drivers (Catalyst 9.1/9.2) ATI has announced full support for OpenGL 3.0, however, no new information on this page (http://developer.amd.com/gpu/radeon/Radeon3DProgramming/Pages/default.aspx). And in general, this page is very outdated  Who is a day when it updates, or ATI has not respected the OpenGL and OpenGL-users?

                                  • Update Radeon ® 3D Programming
                                    XVincentX

                                    All this i will write it's all in my modest opinion. I will tell you what i think about all'ATI.

                                    Even if, mabye, ATI Cards have got more power in some cases (HD3870 and 4870 have got a lot of power, really):

                                    a) We still have no profiling tool (mabye in this month...)
                                    b) Tessellation SDK has no D3D10 (ARGH) and OpenGL support
                                    c) Owful, OWFUL drivers. I'm tired to see anytime a driver reset for some NORMAL code reasons (that never happened on my old NVIDIA Card). Also game artifacts. Probabily Ati hates Ubisoft products: Prince of Persia, Sands of Time freezed with my 9800 on a boss and i was forced to change it with a 5800. I retryed now with a 3870 and Assassin's Creed showed artifacts and triangles with no reason. Also the new Prince of Persia blocks continuosly with ATI Card (never with same pc- nvidia card)
                                    d) Still not OpenGL 3.0 drivers
                                    e) nVidia continuosly publishes examples, docs papers and pdf about techniques, Gpu programming, GPU Gems for free.
                                    d) There is no comparision about tools gave by nVidia and ATI's one: texture tools, FXComposer...

                                    I know you mabye will not care about this, but i never, NEVER will buy an ATI Card. After nVidia will release the first full D3D11 card, i will purchase it.

                                      • Update Radeon ® 3D Programming
                                        bpurnomo

                                        I feel that the last post requires at least a response (you are in AMD/ATI forum after all). 

                                        For point (a): we have a profiling tool called GPU PerfStudio. The old version (v1.2) is available at http://developer.amd.com/gpu/archive/perfstudio/pages/default.aspx.  A new version (v2.0) which is a rebuilt from the ground up is due to be released soon.

                                        For point (b): Correct, but that might change in the future.  Does NVIDIA support tessellation currently?

                                        For point (c): This is debatable.  Some will argue that ATI drivers are better than NVIDIA drivers, and vice versa.

                                        For point (d): I thought our driver support OpenGL 3.0 since January 2009 (Catalyst 9.1).

                                        For point (e): So do we.  However, I agree they are more aggressive in this front partly due to their resources.

                                        For point (f): This is also debatable. They have better tools in some fronts, we have better tools in others.  Also, NVIDIA is starting to charge for their tools, while we keep giving out our tools for free.

                                        In any case, I'd say it would benefit the customers to see some competitions.  For me, I know I rather not pay $650 for a graphics card. 

                                         

                                          • Update Radeon ® 3D Programming
                                            XVincentX

                                            a) GPUPerfStudio 1.2 it's finally aviable for download after a lot of requests (never listened) from me and other users (emails with no answer, at least 10). Anyway, it does not work wity my Crossfire 3870.

                                            b) No, it does not. Congratulation, you're 10-1 against nVidia

                                            c) Please make me some examples. Am i so unlucky??

                                            d) Please, update the website so!!

                                            f) For example?

                                            I want to remember i'm not here to publicize nVidia or make controversy. I'm just expressing my opinion from a 4-years ATI card user.
                                            Anythime i thought: "This will be the right time finally..." but never happened.

                                            • Update Radeon ® 3D Programming
                                              djmike

                                               

                                              Originally posted by: bpurnomo

                                              For point (e): So do we. However, I agree they are more aggressive in this front partly due to their resources.

                                              Can you point me to where these resources live?  They are extremely hard to find and few resources I have found are for the most part very dated.  nVidia's site makes it very easy to navigate around and find what you need.  Their resources are always updated and fresh.  I find the ATI Developer site extremely frustrating.  So much so that I plan to buy an nVidia card so that I play with better developer resources.  I really wish I didn't have to, but it seems there is no other choice.

                                               

                                              Originally posted by: bpurnomo

                                              If I have to guess, I'd say it will be at least another month (very rough estimate) before they can complete the work to update the information in the website.

                                              It's been over 2 months now since your post and no updates...

                                          • Update Radeon ® 3D Programming
                                            bpurnomo

                                             

                                            Originally posted by: 0r@ngE Along with their new drivers (Catalyst 9.1/9.2) ATI has announced full support for OpenGL 3.0, however, no new information on this page (http://developer.amd.com/gpu/radeon/Radeon3DProgramming/Pages/default.aspx). And in general, this page is very outdated  Who is a day when it updates, or ATI has not respected the OpenGL and OpenGL-users?

                                             

                                            This has been reported, but I think they haven't got around to updating the information yet.

                                             

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                                                0r@ngE

                                                 

                                                Originally posted by: bpurnomoThis has been reported, but I think they haven't got around to updating the information yet.


                                                 

                                                Thank to you for that. I hope that you will soon correct this misunderstanding. Also I don't want to debate about ATI vs nVidia. Just as the developer uses OpenGL I am interested in my product to work with both vendors.

                                                With best regards, =[ 0r@ngE ]=

                                                  • Update Radeon ® 3D Programming
                                                    bpurnomo

                                                    It looks like there are some activities internally on this front.  If I have to guess, I'd say it will be at least another month (very rough estimate) before they can complete the work to update the information in the website.

                                                     

                                                     

                                                      • Update Radeon ® 3D Programming
                                                        0r@ngE

                                                         

                                                        Originally posted by: bpurnomo It looks like there are some activities internally on this front.  If I have to guess, I'd say it will be at least another month (very rough estimate) before they can complete the work to update the information in the website.


                                                        Thank you. I look forward to. Support for OpenGL, and little information - this is still ATI's weaknesses. If you pay attention to this, it would be great for both of us