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Red Team Discussions

kxuping
Forerunner

Re: Time zone for Vega sales?

Someone managed to buy a 499 Vega 64 Air card? Or saw were they were selling at that price. I only saw 599 with 2 games available for a few minutes (newegg, amazon, bestbuy,tigerdirect).

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ajlueke
Grandmaster

Re: Time zone for Vega sales?

There was at least one card on Newegg Monday morning for $499.  I do remember seeing it there.  The vast majority of the cards per the packs however.  Best Buy and my local shop sold only the packs. 

os2wiz
Elite

Re: Time zone for Vega sales?

This was a paper launch. Big retailers like Micro Center only had a handful of Vega 64 cards available for sale. Newegg sold out in LESS than 10 minutes leading me to believe they had only a few hundred cards available for sale. The channel definitely was not full for a big launch. Why did AMD insist on launching with the stores not fully stocked with cards???? What a turn off.

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kxuping
Forerunner

Re: Time zone for Vega sales?

Newegg every few hours offers more stock of Radeon packs with HW.

colesdav
MVP

Re: Time zone for Vega sales?

It is still very early days after release and power draw needs some investigation ... watch this:
The RX Vega Liquid Edition Review - YouTube

There are plenty of people who want to buy an RX Vega. I am still  one of those people.

I just need more info about the Performance versus Power Jump and exactly what is and is not working in the review drivers...

I watched the PC Perspective Live Podcast yesterday: Podcast #463 - AMD VEGA 64, Flash Memory Summit, and more! | PC Perspective
I was commenting on the live chat and some of my questions seem to have been picked up on / or answered the on their Live Podcast.

Lots of interesting questions remain...


Bye.

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colesdav
MVP

Re: Time zone for Vega sales?

Hi,

I have been giving the Vega 64 (Liquid Edition) Performance versus Power Draw issue some more thought last night.

AMD management have clearly taken some very clever decisions regarding CPU side of the business and AMD as a Company has clearly executed well with Ryzen, Threadripper and Epyc. They have turned the competitive situation around in the CPU market.

I think that the Radeon Technology Group is full of highly intelligent and hard working people.

I do not think they would have wanted or planned the Vega64 Liquid Performance versus Power situation to be where it is right now.

They were clearly making special efforts to keep an eye on Performance per Watt.

- Statements made and presentations about it.

- Perfomance per Watt has to improve for the Mobile / Laptop  Market.

- Follow up from RX480 Pcie Power > 75Watts.

- Special test board built and fitted to the Vega to monitor all signals.


The Vega Architecture is built around and highly dependent on HBM2.

Any problem with HBM2 performance = Problem for Vega.

I remember reading this at the start of February 2017 and thinking it might be a problem : AMD Vega to launch with slower HBM2, faster HBM2 later


So here is a theory.

I think the HBM2 they are using on the Vega Cards right now is slower than they were relying on.

I think they had to push the GPU Clock up further than they were expecting on the Vega 64 (Air) to compensate for lower HBM2 performance  so they could have the Vega 64 perform at the ~ same levels as the GTX1080, but the power draw is higher than expected.

The Vega 64 (Liquid) performance is better because of the water cooler, but it has been shown so far to be a poor overclocker, and seems to be operating right on the end of the Performance Gain versus Power Draw Limit. This could explain the large Power Jump versus Performance gain seen by AdoredTV.

The Vega 56 runs at lower clock speeds and the card they have has been shown by Buildzoid/Gamers Nexus to to be a good overclocker.
Most benefit to the performance of the Vega 56 in their example over default settings was to set the Power Target to maximum.
Next benefit was to increase the HBM clock frequency.
Increasing the GPU clock was of little benefit in comparison.

All of the above is just a theory.

However it also seems to make sense to me in terms of what actually happened with the Vega Launch.

If it is correct and the HBM2 performance is currently a problem and will improve later then that could mean the Vega 64 GPU and Architecture is much better than some people think.

It might have significant benefits to the performance and power draw of the Vega 64.

Anyhow as I said I was unable to buy a Vega 64 Liquid.

I  got in touch with Jim from AdoredTV today and I have asked him what he thinks and if he could possibly test this theory on his Vega 64 Liquid Card that he was supplied for review.

Thanks.

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os2wiz
Elite

Re: Time zone for Vega sales?

This was a well orchestrated fake launch for Vega 64.  The intent was to tell user-enthusiasts that Black shroud Vega 64 was $499, but it had been set up well in advance to be a 1 day MSRP with very limited quantity., $599 was always intended to be MSRP.  They will pull the same stunt with Vega 56. $399 will be a i day reality. Then it will jump to the intended $499 price. AMD figures these now overpriced cards will sell to miners if no one else. That is why two days ago they announced a new beta driver for etherium that will raise productivity to 47 versus than the 34 number that had been thrown around. They would never had made this announcement of the beta driver so early if they really intended to make a mass market with RX Vega to the user community. This deception and lack of transparency is leaving a very bad taste and many enthusiasts mouths. The ill will created by AMD will come back to bite them in future gpu sales including NAVI. Nvidia has announced improvement of etherium drivers too, so now AMD will fell their heels to the fire both from it enthusiasts and their competition. Well deserved for bad corporate behavior.

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colesdav
MVP

Re: Time zone for Vega sales?

I wait and see what AMD official response is on this.

I have seen articles on Gamers Nexus, Joker Productions, and elsewhere about this just recently. 
I do not know what the truth about this is.

Vega is a large advanced GPU with HBM2 memory and lots of new features. The Vreg is extremely high quality. It must cost lots to produce.

It is good at Compute and Pro Applications.
For me the Power versus Performance on gaming issue is still unresolved, but it *might* be the HBM2 performance is the problem, not the Vega GPU itself.
It *might* be the gaming drivers. It might be DSBR is not enabled / working properly yet and it might help.
If the HBM2 is currently the cause of the performance / power issue for Gamers then I would prefer to wait a little longer and get a Vega 64 with faster HBM2 anyhow.

I think AMD Bundles and initial MSRP was a way for AMD to try to keep the costs of the cards down as much as possible for Gamers and get people to buy into Ryzen/FreeSync/AMD Motherboards for as long as possible. Maybe Gamer demand for the Vega cards has been almost manic after a long wait and lots of very effective Marketing and PR. However from what I read, AMD was effectively subsidizing the cost of it's own cards for Gamers versus what people are actually  prepared to pay for the card.

Maybe Miners are buying everything in sight including the bundles anyhow.

How do you tell who is a Gamer, who is a Miner, who is both when you sell to them?
How do you know someone is not just buying cards to resell them immediately at a profit anyhow.


I think is that anyone running AMD would have to do their best to sell their cards at the best price the market is prepared to pay for.
Miners are customers too.

If Mining is a craze then AMD will have to make money whilst it lasts.

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os2wiz
Elite

Re: Time zone for Vega sales?

I zgree with your theory. I gad come to the same conclusion a few fays ago. But noe iz Not the time to buy  Vega. When Samsung ramps up production on the first quarter of 18 they will have faster HBM2 at a lower price. THAT is the right time to buy. These Vega gpu are just not good enough right now. Yes AMD boosted the core clock too high go compensate for poor memory speed with the predictable power problem.They would have been better off using gddr5X until HBM2 is ready for prime time.

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

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kxuping
Forerunner

Re: Time zone for Vega sales?

If the memory speed information is true, then there you have the 1080ti equivalent. It will be more expensive than current 64 and maybe called Radeon RX Vega 64ti VoxelRipper

There will be always a better/faster/cheaper product on the pipeline.

For someone with R9 290X or RX580 Crossfire a Vega 64 makes sense.