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Red Team Discussions

colesdav
MVP

Re: Time zone for Vega sales?

From Anantech review ... All available Vega 64's  sold out in 15 minutes!

"Update:
As of 10am ET, Newegg's entire allocation of Vega 64 cards has sold through. This includes the stand-alone cards and the bundled cards. Indications are that Newegg's stock of cards sold through in under 15 minutes."

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ajlueke
Grandmaster

Re: Time zone for Vega sales?

The Anandtech review is an interesting read.  Essentially, you are getting GTX 1080 for about 150W extra from the wall.  Doesn't seem to have swayed buyers however, after Vega was delayed in part to ensure adequate stock, it looks like it has sold out from most online vendors.

Looks like we are likely to have more of X370 motherboard launch as opposed to a Ryzen 7 launch. 

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colesdav
MVP

Re: Time zone for Vega sales?

Hi,


For those concerned about Vega being really good at Mining ... it looks like the Hash Rate is somewhere between 30-40 MH/s.
There are rumours of a new Mining optimised driver through...

I think it is looking pretty good so far for the Vega 54 versus GTX1070 in all the reviews. Also it looks to be a really good overclocker so far.

According to Gamers Nexus / Buildzoid the Vega 56/64/64 Liquid and Vega FE (Air/Liquid) all have the same power regulator, BIOS power limit override may be possible.

The RX Vega 64(Air) looks like it is ~ a tie with a GTX 1080, behind in DX11 and ahead in DX12 / Vulkan. with a blower style cooler.
I think this This bodes well when AIB cards come out with triple fan Vapor Chamber Coolers.

The RX Vega 64 (Liquid) is looking most interesting to me.  It seems to be between GTX1080Ti and GTX1080 performance overall.
So far though it does not overclock well. It looks like it is running at the limit already.

The RX Vega (AIR) is running at 10% faster than the Vega FE (Air).
So at least there has been performance improvements over the somewhat disappointing initial Vega FE Gaming Benchmarks. 
I look forward to see Vega FE (liquid) running new drivers.

I think there are lots of features in Vega Architecture that will not be exploited with the gaming Benchmarks seen so far.
I will be keeping an eye out for new game developments that make use of these new features.

Also likely that over next 3-6 months the AMD drivers will be worked on further and performance will likely increase.

Cheers.

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ajlueke
Grandmaster

Re: Time zone for Vega sales?

It seems the Vega architecture is very similar to Fiji was far as diminishing returns goes.  The R9 Fury Nano gave 90% of the Fury X's performance on a 175W power limit versus 275W for the Fury X.  Vega is similar, raising the clock speed beyond the air cooled versions settings yield less than a 10% performance gain for the liquid cooled, but a massive power draw increase.

The air cooled Vega 64 already pulls a similar amount of wattage from the wall as the GTX 1080 Ti, and over 100W more than the standard GTX 1080.  The Liquid cooled version sees those power draws climb over 500W in some cases for pretty minimal gains.  The performance of the liquid cooled version is likely the best Vega can do with clock speed increases alone, bringing it in line with factory overclocked GTX 1080s like the MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X.  Couple that with the fact that the liquid edition only sells in bundles at $699 (more than a GTX 1080 Ti), that is a really tough sell.

Overall, Vega 64 is about 30% faster than the R9 Fury X, which doesn't really justify an upgrade for me.  The Vega 56 is the most interesting however, because it can effectively be overclocking to perform almost identically with the Vega 64, and costs only $399 MSRP.  That is a pretty solid price/performance buy.  Couple that with the fact that R9 Fury X's still sell in the $300+ range on EBay, that would be almost a free upgrade.  I'll keep my eyes open and see if the Vega 56 crops up at MSRP when it launches.

xobeloot
Elite

Re: Time zone for Vega sales?

Well, I wound up in class when they went on sale.  By the time I got out of class, they were all sold out.

Later in the day I get a text from my wife with a newegg invoice for a Vega 64 and a Samsung 34" curved.

I don't know how she did it.  Some kind of voodoo, but it is done!  Will have to wait for my water block to arrive from EK though.  I might modify my loop and just run air until the block comes to test things out.  #WINNING!

ajlueke
Grandmaster

Re: Time zone for Vega sales?

The cards are still on sale on Newegg as long as you purchase the monitor (with $200) discount, or the montherboard, Ryzen CPU ($100 discount).  Newegg is essentially forcing you to cash in the bundles on the spot to get a Vega 64. 

I personally am going to wait for the Vega 56 launch on the 28th.  Hopefully it will actually sell for $399 bundle free.  The reviews I have read indicate you can overclock it and have nearly identical performance to the Vega 64.

Although, since I did order a Calyos NSG S0 case recently, the Vega 64 would be a good way to test that passive cooling capability.  Wonder how well the passive phase change cooling would fare with a Vega 64 burning like it's namesake at the center?  Hmmm.

colesdav
MVP

Re: Time zone for Vega sales?

Hi,

I am going to wait for another 3 months until this RX Vega story pans out.

Wait until we all  find out what is wrong with the power draw on the Vega 64.

I think we need some explanation why the power requirement is so high on the Vega  64.

For certain the Vega 56 drivers are not ready yet either.

I remember watching this: Hands LITERALLY On AMD Vega! - YouTube
Watch the video from 4:00 - 5:20.

A special addon card to the Vega GPU to allow careful montoring of Power Draw after the PCIe Power > 75Watts on the RX480.

It is stated in the video that Performance Per Watt improvement is a key target for Vega, continuing on from Polaris.

So ... What happened?

I think something is wrong / needs changed somewhere.
Either the drivers have a problem, some new architectural feature is not enabled, the VBIOS needs some refinement, or the  Global Foundaries Process for this first batch of cards needs some more work/refinement.  Maybe there is a circuit design  / physical layout  issue.
This is a big complex GPU with many new advanced  features.

It is still early days ... although Vega took a long time to arrive, the Vega  launch seems very rushed.

Based on the numbers and info I have seen from many reviewers now, I think Vega 64 (AIR&Liquid) needs

some "Driver FineWine" and BIOS Tweaks.

Cheers.

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os2wiz
Elite

Re: Time zone for Vega sales?

Actually they were sold out in less than 10 minutes. They only had a small supply. Newegg is the biggest computer e-seller in the US and they had less than 500 cards available for sale. That is a sad joke. This is not a proper launch. The retail channel should have been stuffed with cards so that all who wanted one could buy one. Also the black shroud card for $499 msrp is now $599. Apparently AMD didi NOT have the decency to say it was a one day MSRP as they would have been ripped for it. Now they are being ripped for it because they showed no transparency with their enthusiast customers. Disrespect breeds contempt. That is exactly what I am feeling toward AMD right now. A 20 year customer of AMD and not given  any respect with this Vega 64 launch.

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ajlueke
Grandmaster

Re: Time zone for Vega sales?

Is it confirmed then that the $499 card will no longer be available and will instead be $599?  If the standalone $499 card was indeed a day one only price and the volumes on day one were extremely low, that would be hard to explain from a customer service standpoint.

It did seem like the volumes were pretty low on launch day however.  I checked stock at my local shop before it opened, and they had only 3 cards available.  Hardly overflowing the shelves.

We'll have to see how the Vega 56 launch does.  I am curious if the $399 pricing for that card is also only for the initial launch volumes.

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colesdav
MVP

Re: Time zone for Vega sales?

RE: Actually they were sold out in less than 15 minutes.

I knew Newegg were sold out in less than 15 minutes. I did not realise Newegg was the major source of Vega cards in the US. I did not know they only had 500 cards either. That seems way too low a number if that is true.

RE: This is not a proper launch. The retail channel should have been stuffed with cards so that all who wanted one could buy one.

The card had been launched, I do not know why there are none available to buy. Perhaps there are more cards on the way soon.

Perhaps the Vega FE and current RX Vega cards is from the first few lots of Silicon Wafers that came out. Maybe there is a lack of HBM2. I have no way to know.
It would seem sensible to me to do a launch now, get the cards out into the enthusiast gaming / overclockers customer base and third party reviewers hands as soon as possible. This way lots of enthusiasts do lots of testing and tweaking and reviews, and AMD get tons of feedback. 

They can possibly improve what is important, on the driver side,  tweak what they can on the circuit design / fabrication process side, and get another lot of Wafers through the Chartered Fab and assembled for AIB partners to launch new RX Vega gaming cards for Christmas, which is likely when the majority of new gaming cards are purchased.

That's why I said it is probably best to wait another three months. I think that is possibly what is happening. I do not know how long it takes to get the Vega from Design Tapeout through fabrication and out to final production and through testing. Maybe three months is not enough time, but it seems they would need the next round of Vega cards ready to be boxed and distributed by mid November 2017 before Thanksgiving Holidays to hit the Christmas Season.

Regarding the price of cards, AMD can only recommend the price.
I think that's what MRSP means, I do not think they can actually control prices that retailers are prepared to sell the cards for.

I can understand you are unhappy that you could not get an RX Vega at MRSP.

I could not get an RX Vega 64 (Liquid) card yet either.

I have decided to wait and see what happens at Christmas.

Cheers.