cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Processors

Electric_Squall
Adept II

The Division 2 - DX12 Crash to Desktop while idle (Char Menu/Stash Menu) - Possible cause (AMD)

The DX12 CTD is known, specially when the player is idle/accessing in game menus/stash.

From August 2020 to May 2021, I had 3 AMD builds. Also, 3 different Windows 10 Builds as well (2004, 20H2 and 21H1)

X570 Crosshair VIII Hero + 3900x
X570 Crosshair VIII Hero + 5900x
X570 Crosshair VIII Formula + 5950x

At least, once in a day, while I was managing my builds, the game used to CTD.

From May 2021 to nowadays, I've moved back to Intel (Z590 + 10900k) No other components besides Motherboard and CPU were replaced.

And, for my surprise, in a whole month, I didn't have a SINGLE CTD while running The Division 2.

I've heard that some Intel users faced this issue as well, however, considering my experience, in my case, the issue was caused by AMD, specifically the ZEN Architecture.

My guess, is that when you're idle, game content "travel" between AMD called core complex' (CCD/CCX) and cache storage, using the Infinity fabric to do so. This behavior is not transparent as it should, leading to a game crash.

I hope this information helps Ubisoft/AMD to fix the issue and help other players.

I've also opened a thread inside Ubisoft forum: DX12 Crash to Desktop while idle (Char Menu/Stash Menu) - Possible cause (AMD) | Ubisoft Forums

Regards!

0 Likes
8 Replies
trek
Elite

Re: DX12 Crash to Desktop while idle (Char Menu/Stash Menu) - Possible cause (AMD)

I have bought 5950x last year and I have not had a single crash, it is the most stable configuration I have had. State of the art and most performant configuration with world-class single core and especially multicore performance.

With 3080 Ti graphics card, I have the best gaming solution competing companies AMD and Nvidia can offer together.

Common denominator what I have seen to instabilities is:

  • Asus motherboards - never had good experience with Asus motherboards, bad BIOS support, long time until updated bios (years), toxic technical support, refuses RMA if you open notebook or replace TIM on GPU
  • Radeon graphics cards (those drivers were never good and probably are not good still today), crashes, black screens, system hangs are provided plentifully by these graphics drivers/cards, pain and torture

 

From my personal experience, I have had DX12 CTD only with Radeon graphics cards in multiple PCs. E.g. I had GTX 780 working years without single crash, bought 5700 XT, crashes immediately, replaced with GTX 2070 again stable system. One of the issues was e.g. as you write CTD/black screen crash when going to the game menu/pausing game - this occurred to me only with Radeon graphics cards, never with Nvidia.

0 Likes
Electric_Squall
Adept II

Re: The Division 2 - DX12 Crash to Desktop while idle (Char Menu/Stash Menu) - Possible cause (AMD)

Title updated. I'm being specific here. I'm talking about The Division 2. Forgot to put the game name to the title.

My point is: CCX/CCD's and Infinity Fabric are probably the cause of CTD in The Division 2. 

0 Likes
trek
Elite

Re: The Division 2 - DX12 Crash to Desktop while idle (Char Menu/Stash Menu) - Possible cause (AMD)

Ok, what you write sounds highly unlikely, why would a game crash when context switching between chiplets.

You can verify your hypothesis by starting game and setting affinity of game process to only cores in the first CCX or disable the second CCX in bios and run game only with one CCX.

But your conspiration theory sounds unlikely, higher probability is graphics driver/game issue.

0 Likes
Electric_Squall
Adept II

Re: The Division 2 - DX12 Crash to Desktop while idle (Char Menu/Stash Menu) - Possible cause (AMD)

@trek - I did that. However, cached content Will still "travel" between chiplets, at the time, I wasn't able to validade cache behavior, but I've isolated a CCX and the problem happened the same way.

The point is, How can It be a game or graphics driver issue, If the unexpected behavior, cant be seen on Intel?

I've used 2 different motherboards, 3 different cpus in 3 different Windows 10 builds. In all of these scenarios, the error occured.

Dispite CPU and Motherboard, nothing Else was replaced. RAM sticks are the same, ssd's, gpu and gpu driver. So, If It is not a ZEN Architecture issue, It is probably a Chipset and/ir chipset driver issue.

The Game is running Fine now, not a single crash during a month with 10900k and 6900xt. With the 3900x, 5900x and 5950x + 6900xt I used to face this error every single time I played the game.

0 Likes
trek
Elite

Re: The Division 2 - DX12 Crash to Desktop while idle (Char Menu/Stash Menu) - Possible cause (AMD)

So it looks like Asus X570 motherboards issue, because also other people report here galore of issues with Asus.

I do not understand cache "travel" what you are talking about. You mean that cores must fetch data from L3 in other CCX via infinity fabric? If you disable second CCX in bios, there should be no communication from CCX0 to CCX1.

I.e. from available information on the Internet, if you disable second CCX you disable also associated cache and if you do so your crashed should stop, and you would verify this issue.

What you have now is only unsubstantiated claim.

0 Likes
Electric_Squall
Adept II

Re: The Division 2 - DX12 Crash to Desktop while idle (Char Menu/Stash Menu) - Possible cause (AMD)

The facts are on my side.

What about "Asus problems" what is your contribution? None, right? Meaningless and empty words. The root cause can be anything, except AMD CPU. Just another AMD Fanboy.

About the Cache Behavior with only partial CCX\CCD enabled. As I've told, the problem happened when I tried it for both 5900x and 5950x, so, maybe it is not due to CCX\CCD but related to the Infinity Fabric. However, even if that could solve the problem, it would still be a major design flaw, because only 5600/5800x would work out of the box.

Considering that except CPU and Motherboard, I'm using the same hardware and software, we still have 4 possibilities to be the root cause: The Motherboard, the Chipset\Chipset driver or the CPU.

Since AMD is AMD, we should only expect a solution from Asus, even if the issue is not related to their products.

0 Likes
tjgodin
Journeyman III

Re: The Division 2 - DX12 Crash to Desktop while idle (Char Menu/Stash Menu) - Possible cause (AMD)

I run systems with AMD and Intel CPUs and both experience CTD in The Division 2, so I don't believe the CPU is the source of the issue with DX12.  I also use both Nvidia and AMD GPUs in a variety of system builds.  The issue occurs across Z390, B450, X570 boards as well.

Unfortunately, there is no rhyme or reason in regards to The Division 2 issues and two years plus after release - the game continues to be unstable whether you run AMD or  Intel CPUs/GPUs, DX11 or DX12 - though DX12 seems more problematic.

0 Likes
tjgodin
Journeyman III

Re: The Division 2 - DX12 Crash to Desktop while idle (Char Menu/Stash Menu) - Possible cause (AMD)

I run systems with AMD and Intel CPUs and both experience CTD in The Division 2, so I don't believe the CPU is the source or only source of the issue with DX12.  I also use both Nvidia and AMD GPUs in a variety of system builds.  The CTD issue occurs across Z390, B450, X570 boards as well and non-Asus or Asus too.  And I say this based on over 4K+ hours of playtime.

Unfortunately, there is no rhyme or reason in regards to The Division 2 issues and two years plus after release - the game continues to be unstable at times whether you run AMD or  Intel CPUs. AMD or Nvidia GPUs, DX11 or DX12 - though DX12 seems more problematic.

0 Likes