Processors

[speedphlux]

Hello there !

I was getting really tired of my old Athlon II X3 450 & GT 630 combo lately, so I saved up a bit of money for a brand new PC. With the dGPU market as it stands, the new Ryzen APUs looked like an awesome bargain, so I went for it. Here is what I ended up with :

Ryzen 5 2400G
ASRock B450 Fatal1ty Gaming K4
16 GB (2x8) HyperX Predator C15 @ 3000 (QVL - HX430C15PB3K2/16, downclocked them to 2933MHz as I've heard that Ryzen doesn't like 3000 very much)
DeepCool DQ550ST 80+ Gold Power Supply

So I've built this PC about a week ago now and after battling the TDR BSOD for a day or two, I'm finally victorious and have a stable PC. Up to a point however. Leaving all settings at stock, the PC is flawless at running stress tests, but there are substantial artifacting while playing games, coupled with the occasional micro stuttering. Not much, but it's getting annoying. I've read around a bit more and it turns out I wasn't the only one experiencing that sort of behavior. So I did as recommended - tried to overclock the iGPU part of the APU. My 2400G suffers from a "Black Hole" in the GFX Clock speeds - anything between 1250 to 1450 MHz, results in a BSOD, regardless of voltage settings. At 1500MHz - it's perfectly stable ... with 1.325V at the GFX voltage. That is without any artifacting or micro stuttering. Problem is, 1.325V at the GFX pushes the same current thru the motherboard SOC and I'm not sure if the ASRock B450 Gaming K4's VRM can handle that safely. I did tried posting my question there (ASRock forums), but it seems noone is willing to post a response. I've seen other people being able to get 1500MHz GFX Clocks at much lower voltages (1.1-1.2V), while my PC "hangs up" very quickly with anything less then 1.3V. Even at 1.3V, sometimes it locks up after an hour or two. 1.325-1.35 seems to be the sweetspot for my sample, but that seems borderline dangerous, so I've dialed in back down to stock settings, while I'm trying to figure out a solution.

It is awkward, coz HWMonitor reports max VDDCR_SOC at 1.104V with the stock settings, but when I try to "lock" the iGPU at it's stock settings with 1240MHz at 1.1125V (in order to minimize the micro stutterings, which I assume come from the GFX clocks jumpin all over the place from 400 to 1240MHz while gaming), it just locks up. Even if I manually set the SOC from the BIOS at 1.1-1.2V, the iGPU is unstable with a set clock speed that is lower than 1500MHz. But in order to get stability at that clock speed, I need to jump the GFX voltage above 1.3V.

CPU on the other hand seems excellent. 3,9GHz with 1.4V at the VCORE without any problem. For some reason the "stock" ASRock settings are pushing 1.45V thru the VCORE, but it seems stable and it's not overheating, so I guess I can't question that. When left alone to do it's thing, HWMonitor reads peak of 1.472V and the idle goes all the way down to 0.208V. But I'm not interested in CPU Clock speeds. I could even live with a downclocked version if that would solve my iGPU struggles. The games that I play are not the usual AAA titles (mainly World of Tanks and Star Wars The Old Republic), so I'm fine with lower CPU clocks. But that iGPU micro stuttering and artifacting is really bothering me.

Any ideas ? Or am I just unlucky ?

[speedphlux]

Still no answer ? After 20 days -.-

[jdrobinson314]

You've got a lot going on. Are there any settings for load line calibration you might be able to increase power delivery cleanness to the socket?

[speedphlux]

I didn't found anything mentioning "Load line calibration" in my BIOS. There are PStates however. Not sure what to do around those thou.

I did try to downclock the CPU part of the APU and then bump up the GFX part up. It looked stable initially (3,2 GHz CPU @ 1.325V and 1,5 GHz GFX @ 1.225V) as it passed all stress tests I threw at it and the temps looked in order, but the moment I ran a game, I was greeted by the good old TDR BSOD. Tried lowering the CPU clock even more, but it became unstable for some reason, no matter the voltage.

Don't get me wrong - the PC runs near flawlessly and does everything I want from it at stock settings. It's just that sometimes those micro stutters and artifacting really gets on my nerves. I could start saving up money again and be on the lookout for the next set of Ryzen APUs (the 3000G models), but I'm not completely sure if they bump up the core counts, as the rumors so far suggest, will my 3+3 VRM on the ASRock B450 Gaming K4 be able to handle it. All I can do is hope, because that Zen 2 Ryzen 5 APU rumors look very very juicy.

[jdrobinson314]

You might try to get that 3000 ram speed at all other stock settings using xmp or dcop overclocked timings. If at all possible.

[speedphlux]

I did toyed around with it at one point, but it's Hynix C Die and it doesn't seems to enjoy being altered, specially with the timings. The XMP profile I'm using is 15-17-17-39, and for some reason when it boots, due to some Ryzen mismatch or something, the timings are set to 16-17-17-39. It appears that Ryzen doesn't like timings that start on 13, 15 or 17 for some reason. I tried 14-16-16-38 @ 2933MHz but it just refuses to accept and my BIOS reverts all changes after the 3rd reboot.

I know I need to do some more research on this topic, but at the same time - I don't wanna mess up anything at the moment, because I'm in a middle of a nice workflow. Prolly when I free up some time in the near future, I'll look closer into that topic and do some proper "trail and error" RAM OC attempts.

[jdrobinson314]

Even at bone stock you should at least be able to get the 3000mhz out of those sticks, that's what they're specced for. 

Only on the early bios versions did gen 1 ryzen have problems with OC memory ( oc by jdec standards ). And that was largely resolved by bios updates. I'm going to assume you've updated the bios.

I'm running an 1800x with 3200, it's admittedly gskill Samsung bdie but it's also just an xmp profile.

[misterj]

speedphlux, too much going on.  I am not very knowledgeable concerning iGPUs.  I suggest you get down to basics.  Do a Clear CMOS according to your manual instructions and post a screenshot of Ryzen Master (RM).  RM is the ONLY valid reporter of CPU temperatures, etc.  HWMonitor is one of the poorest.  Allow your memory to run at the SPD speed. When you have a BSOD, compress your Minidump folder and attach it.  I am suggesting you see if stock settings will work, then go from there.  Thanks and enjoy, John.

[jdrobinson314]

From everything I've seen,  ryzen master is the best way to interactively oc the apu chips.

You can run a windowed unigen, and prime95 or aida64 while changing the clocks,  etc. Find a stable data set, and then apply the settings in the bios. 

[speedphlux]

Once I find a little bit of free time next week, I'll sit down with Ryzen Master and share my experience with it. So far I've avoided it, simply because I'm not comfortable using software to alter hardware performance.

[jdrobinson314]

That's great, hopefully you can get that extra bit out of it. Ryzen master can be a fairly formidable piece of software but it doesn't apply permanent changes out of the box - bios will - it's just more accessible and boot fault tolerant.

I would make a restore point in windows before you drive in, just in case.

[speedphlux]

I did some tiny research around and was able to get my RAM up to 3200MHz with 16-18-18-36 (SK Hynix CJR). Not ideal, but 20 points more in Cinebench R15. Ryzen Master is something. I could get the CPU all the way up to 3.9GHz, but even when I downclock the CPU and undervolt it, I couldn't get a stable overclock of the iGPU to anything stable within the voltage that ASRock support said was considered stable (1.25V). Was able to get the CPU all the way down to 3 GHz at 1.25V being stable, but after that when I tried to OC the iGPU, it wasn't going as smooth as the CPU. The "Black Hole" still persists - anything between 1240MHz all the way to 1500MHz just simply crashes, no matter the voltage. At 1500Mhz, the only stable voltage settings seems to be 1.325V-1.35V, which is a little bit too high for my liking. My BIOS is version 1.80. I think this is the latest version for the moment. I haven't checked ASRocks' site for about a month now.

I guess I'm done trying to figure it out for the moment. Will have to wait for Ryzen 3000 APUs and perhaps consider a motherboard change as well, in case my 3+3 VRM isn't enough. All those rumors about the next Ryzen 5 APU being 8 cores and 16 threads, I'm not sure if 3+3 will be enough for it. Perhaps I'll have to go down to Ryzen 3 APU ? Or I could simply slap in a dedicated video card once I see what Navi has to offer.

For now - I'm happy with it. It works, it does what it's needed form, and I've finally was able to squeeze out a little bit more from my RAM.

P.S. : I did noticed something odd in Ryzen Master - my CPU Wattage was shown as 40W even when under stress, rarely peaking at around 45W. I went around the BIOS and saw a settings about the wattage of the CPU and I changed it from "Auto" to 65W, but when I ran another test, the CPU Wattage stayed the same - 40W. No idea what's up with that.

[jdrobinson314]

That 3200 mhz oc over spec over listed 3000 is awesome! This is much better news for the igpu than it would be for cinebench in terms of game performance.

I don't see what you're using as a cooler - the stock cooler has been identified as a no go for any overclocking - if your using that stock cooler, then your probably hitting a wall with spike thermals somewhere in the sense-mi network of thermal probes that's causing the OC issues but this is just me speculating...more on that down below.

There are numerous videos of people getting 1400+mhz out of the igpu - vega is technically in there, it should boost to 1546 like its big brother. But they're all using aftermarket cooler from the likes of noctua or similar for cups specced at 95 watts or so.

Since you mention it - can you change the TDP to something greater than 65 watt. You might be hitting some sort of motherboard/bios induced socket power limit or safety system.

You said ryzen master is telling you its 40 watts? It might not be accounting for the igpu - I would suspect that a hungry igpu would easily exceed 25 watts. I haven't used ryzen master in a while.

This leads me to a thought on your motherboard - no I'd doesn't look like it has the best power phase cooling but the motherboard says it supports 105 watt tdp - it seems mediocre at first glance and could probably use or needs good airflow at that rating.

If you can set the tdp to 95 watts - be sure to drop your SoC/igpu voltage back down to 1.2v - this was where most over clockers stopped raising the voltage. Actually, I would reccomend doing that first anyway, if you resume oc testing. 

[speedphlux]

The max settings on the wattage settings is set to 65W, prolly being tied to the CPU I have installed on the motherboard. Initially I was eyeing out an MSI B450 Tomahawk, but by the time I've gathered all the money and went to make the purchase, my local retailer ran out of stock on all MSI motherboards for the AM4 socket. That ASRock B450 Gaming K4 was the best B450 I could find in stock. I asked around if they were gonna get a new supply of MSI AM4 motherboards, but they've said that they'll be waiting for the B550 and X570 for a new batch of MSI AM4 products. Awkward, but I can't shop online where I'm at, because of all the taxes applied to it, makes a motherboard like the MSI B450 Tomahawk, cost in the region of 225-250 USD equivalent. If I had that sort of money for a motherboard, I could've sneaked in an ASRock X470 Taichi from my local retailer.

I am still rocking the stock cooler - yes. I was keeping track of Arctic Freezer 33 eSports ONE, but I never got around to actually buying it. CPU is currently idling at around 38 C and goes up to 76 C when under prolonged stress tests (hour and a half to two hours). I can't see the iGPU wattage in Ryzen Master, so I'm not sure what's up with that. You're prolly correct thou - 25W assigned to the iGPU and another 40W going into the CPU seems fair point. Could be thermals - yes, but I've seen plenty of videos of people hitting 3.9GHz CPU clock and 1400MHz-1500MHz iGPU clock on the stock cooler. At much lower voltages. Perhaps I should really look around for an MSI motherboard before jumping the gun on a Ryzen 3000 APU in the future ? Just thinking out loud

I did checked out AIDA64's to try figure out what the wattage was on the iGPU, but that thing just reports what feels like random numbers as GPU Wattage. It's jumping around while running Cinebench R15 from 14.64W all the way to 113.84W. Looked unreal, so I just ignored it. I'm fairly sure that if either my CPU or iGPU was pulling 113 Watts on my stock cooler, I'd be scrapping melted goo off my motherboard right now. I mean the PC is up and running since October 2018, so yeah - unreliable.

[jdrobinson314]

That vddcr soc voltage at 1.1 - > 1.2 is the voltage I was referring to overclockers looking into for igpu over clocking.

I'm not sure what they were setting CPU voltage to, I've seen it range in discussions I know precision boost knocks it over 1.4 when everything is set bone stock but this is intermittent.

On my 1800x it shoots up to nearly 1.5, which is worrisome - but I've got an NH-D15S on it,  so it rarely goes above 60c and levels off clocks under full load.

That taichi motherboard had some comments about it thrown around by buildzoid. I'm looking at the asrock fatality x470 itx ac for a future build. Doesn't look like it's got the best vrm cooling solution. I've trusted Asus now for many years - I may look over there.

You're right, the better motherboards are expensive still. I don't think AMD intended A or B chipsets to be ultra tweakable - it's up to the manufacturer though.

[misterj]

speedphlux, without screenshots of Ryzen Master (RM), we have no idea what you are talking about.  Please post a few screenshots and we will take a look.  Thanks and enjoy, John.

[hardcoregames_]

Get a GTX 1060 or RX 570 and use that for gaming

[speedphlux]

I do plan some upgrades in the future, but I'll wait for AMD's next generation of APUs and dedicated video cards before I make up my mind on anything. At the moment, the GTX 1660Ti looks tasty and within reach of my budget, but I don't want to rush out before I see Navi and Ryzen 3000.

[hardcoregames_]

speedphlux wrote:

I do plan some upgrades in the future, but I'll wait for AMD's next generation of APUs and dedicated video cards before I make up my mind on anything. At the moment, the GTX 1660Ti looks tasty and within reach of my budget, but I don't want to rush out before I see Navi and Ryzen 3000.

Discrete cards have many advantages, and June seems to be around the time when AMD is expected to make some kind of comments

The recent mess at TSMC will slow production for a month or two anyway

[speedphlux]

Bone stock settings, CPU Power draw shown as 39W at the moment, just started Cinebench R15.

[hardcoregames_]

My R5 2400G is rather low power at idle too.

[kamispiglin]

I'm dealing with the exact same problem so i guess it's not a matter of luck...

AM4 ASRock B450 Fatal1ty Gaming K4

AMD Ryzen 5 2400G

G.Skill RipjawsV 16GB DDR4-3200MHz (F4-3200C16D-16GVKB)

550W Corsair CX550M

SSD SAMSUNG 860 EVO 2.5" 250GB SATA3

Western Digital WD Blue 1TB

BIOS Verson P1.30

Windows 10Pro

Tried various speeds, timings and voltages for RAM, increased SOC voltage to 1.1, overclocked the CPU at 4000mhz with 1.4125v, reinstalled the drivers quite a few times using many methods i found online, reinstalled Windows 10 (clean install), tried various speeds and voltages for GPU, there is a black hole from 1250 to 1450 for me aswell (never went past 1.3 volts though) and couldn't stabilize at 1600mhz.

My RAM sticks are not listed in the motherboard QVL (took the risk since I ve seen a few builds using the same setup) but Memtest64 shows no errors on any speed I have tested.

I'm not experienced on PC building (this is my first build) nor troubleshooting this kind of setbacks but if I could take a guess, it would either be that there is some parameter in BIOS settings that I'm completely unaware of and completely missed, or this mobo is a bad pairing for this APU. I will upgrade to a dedicated GPU sometime in the future anyway but it would be nice to get as much juice as I can from this one until that happens.

Thanks.

[misterj]

kamispiglin, in general it is not a good idea to piggyback on another user's problem.  You probably do no have the same  problem and all the parameter changes you are making are just fogging the issue.  I recommend you do a Clear CMOS (instruction manual directions), make sure your AMD chip set and video drivers are DLed from ONLY the AMD driver download site and your BIOS is the latest.  Then please tell us what your symptoms are and post a screenshot of Ryzen Mastery.  Thanks and enjoy, John.