Processors

[tomdepommie]

Hello,

I thought I upgraded my old PC (B75MA-P45 with i7-3770/8GB/sata SSD/latest bios) with a new one (B450 gaming max pro AMD Ryzen 7 3600x/16GB/M.2 1TB SSD/latest bios) (My first experience with AMD processor for myself)
I wanted to improve performance and boot speed and the specs of processor and M2 SSD are capable.
Both systems are UEFI, dual boot, linux/windows 10

When I boot my old PC (2013) it takes 10 seconds till DEL appears to enter setup.
Same test on my new PC (2020) , it takes 37 seconds till DEL appears.

Booting windows till desktop appears, old PC 22 seconds and new PC 53 seconds.
It is more than twice as slow as my old PC even with a fast processor and faster M.2 SSD.
7 years difference and I have gained nothing. Only lost 31 seconds on boot.
When I need to search for something quickly, I’m booting my old PC instead of my new one.

I asked the same question on the MSI forum and they told me it was not their fault but AMD's processor.

Because I think it's ridiculous booting a 2020 PC takes almost a minute, I'll ask the same question here again.

Why is my PC so incredibly slow and can I do something about it?

Thank you very kindly,

tom

[elstaci]

Why is booting up as fast as possible so important. One minute is not very slow.

Also depends on how many 3rd party Apps you have in your startup menu? The more Startup Apps you have the longer it takes to boot fully into Windows.

BIOS has a setting called "Fast Boot" but generally it is recommended to keep this disabled since it causes instability in the computer.

Same reason for "Fast Boot" in Windows Power Plans.

[tomdepommie]

Really? 

I'm not going to respond seriously to this.

[elstaci]

The BIOS part is a problem if it takes over 30 seconds to reach the BIOS splash screen.

I was referring to when it boots into Windows Desktop itself.

On my computer with a HDD it takes about 2-3 seconds before reaching the BIOS Splash screen. But several minutes before reaching Windows Desktop due that I have many 3rd party apps starting up.

As mentioned before, During POST it seems you have a hardware that Window's BOOT Menu or BIOS seems to be having a hard time either initializing or seeking.

There was one time,recently, when I was having problems with Window's Boot Menu that it took BIOS a very long time to POST and reach the splash screen, more than a minute. I was getting Boot Menu errors when booting up plus I had either a defective SATA Cable or SATA Motherboard Port since I was getting a Boot error when I tried to boot into my DVD device after doing a clean Windows installation.

After doing a clean Windows installation and deleting all Windows HDD Partitions (replacing unfix-able corrupted Windows Boot Menu) and replacing my SATA Cable to my DVD Burner the computer started booting up normally again.

So to rule out a hardware connected to the motherboard I suggest you try to boot up with the minimum hardware connected to your motherboard.

Do you also have Dual Boot Menu on your old PC?

[gnoll]

Hi tomdepommie‌,

just to confirm, did I understand right that it takes 37 seconds for your computer to show the boot splash screen?

What I suggest is:

1. Enter the bios, Go in "Advanced -> Settings -> Boot" and set "Full screen logo display" to off. This will allow you to see the post messages, and maybe you can get some clue about what is taking long.
2. In "Fixed boot order priorities" make sure that your M.2 SSD boot drive is the first. Your computer may otherwise try to boot from a USB device, DVD reader, or even network and this may slow down the boot process.  

If this does not fix the issue please try to add as many information as possible (you can find a list of common information here: INFORMATION REQUIRED WHEN POSTING A QUESTION  )

It would be good as well if you could post a video of the boot process.

[tomdepommie]

FSD is off

M.2 is only boot device.

PC has 1 boot M.2 SSD, 1 Sata SSD, 2 DVDRW devices

Network is NOT in bootmenu.

Ofcourse latest bios

[gnoll]

Hi tomdepommie‌,

Start by detaching everything you don't need (i.e. the SATA SSD and the two DVD-RW drives), and try to boot again, if the boot-up times improves then we know that the issue is in these devices.

If it does not improve, you could try to reset your bios to default settings and set again your boot device.

If this doesn't help, I'm afraid the next step should be to reinstall windows.

[pokester]

First as another gnoll suggested absolutely make your boot drive the first priority drive for booting in the bios. 

On MSI boards they usually have Legacy+UEFI as the default setting. I would change that to UEFI only unless you have some card or peripheral plugged in that is not UEFI compatible. 

Also a lot of modern boards take longer to boot with older USB devices. It is because they have to run in emulation to run some old devices. You might try unplugging all but your mouse and keyboard and see if that changes anything. If it does add your device back in one at a time until you figure out which one is the culprit. Just a lot of USB devices in general can very much add to your boot time, especially when it includes one or more hubs. 

I also have one of my systems that has a Crucial m.2 NVMe drive in it and while its specs are faster I know it took longer to boot than the SSD I had been using as a boot drive before it. About 6 months and after a couple firmware updates to the drive that issue got resolved. So maybe if it is your drive is new tech, there is hope down the line. Keep installing those firmware and bios updates. 

I have also used some not as well known brands of SSDs over the years that took atrociously long times to boot. 

I stick with mainstream drives or cheap ones I have had very good luck with. The micro center house brand is a good example of cheep drives that have been good for me. A lot of people assume that the new drives sold today are faster than ones from several years back. Many are and others are cheaper today not just because the technology came down in price but because they leave out cache, use cheaper controllers and 3d stack the memory. Making the drives cheaper but not faster or more reliable in many cases. 

I know you mentioned you have a m.2 SSD. M.2 does not make it faster. An SSD is still an SSD and can't go faster than Sata 3 specs at best. It is still only as fast as it's specs on top of that. You didn't mention which drive you have but it may be smart for you to google your model and slow boot to see if you get any hits. Now an M.2 NVME drive can range from typically a little faster to a ton faster than SSD depending on specs. 

Lastly I have a system that dual boots Linux Ubuntu and Windows as well and that system takes substantially longer to boot Windows too. Not sure why but I think it is Windows checking out that Linux partition on boot. I can tell that when I boot to Linux I don't have that issue. I have tested this by removing the Linux SSD and then Windows boots fast. Not sure if you have your Windows and Linux on the same drive? If you have it on another drive you could test that theory like I did. 

Unfortunately new isn't always faster. I have an old Windows XP laptop that I keep around for testing. I am an IT manager. I did change the driver out for an SSD many years ago but it is the fact that XP loaded way faster than Win 10 that really makes the difference. That laptop boots in less than 3 seconds. None of my high end desktops running Windows 10 even come close. The fastest machine I have takes about 15 seconds to boot Windows 10. 

[tomdepommie]

First of all, thank you for your replies.

I tested the 'old Intel PC' with the same hardware devices (dvd/KB/mouse) (except m.2 SSD) as the new PC.

The boot time difference as I mentioned in my first post, new PC more than 30 seconds slower) is measured with an 'old' sata SSD and the new PC with AMD processor, is measured with a M.2 SSD. 

For speed comparison I would like you to google the difference between 'sata3 and nvme'.

1) I'm booting only in UEFI mode and the only boot device is my WD 1TB black M.2NVME.

The new PC is not a little bit slower on boot but almost THREE times slower. 

Maybe you should google AMD slow boot to see I'm not the only one.

greetings tom

[pokester]

I am not challenging in any way that you or anyone else is having an issue. We are not AMD employees. We are users like you trying to help you, not defend AMD or anyone else. I already shared my experiences and there are many different reasons why a system can boot slowly. I can tell you it very likely has nothing at all to do with the CPU. It could be the motherboard hardware and or firmware, it could be the drive itself hardware and or firmware, and it could be any number of things plugged in that contribute to slowing down the boot.

I am sorry that the suggestions you have received here have apparently not helped? You didn't mention what you did or didn't even try from any of the suggestions. Only you telling me what I should search for. I am fully aware of the the differences in Sata3 and NVME. According to the information you gave, you have SSD which means Sata not NVME which is why I said what I did. If you have an NVME drive they are usually a little faster to a ton faster however there are even cacheless versions of them out there that are very slow. Since you only gave your motherboard and processor specs it is hard to know what you have. Hopefully you do and are searching the correct things.

Obviously the communities help is not meeting your needs.

I would suggest you speak with the support departments from 

AMD, MSI and whoever makes your M.2 drive. Which is honestly where your search for help should have begun. It is a great idea to ask the community but I would always ask support as well as it will expedite an answer. They are the experts and the only ones that can't make fixes when something is broken

The community mostly has work arounds not true fixes. 

[tomdepommie]

Pokester,

you're not reading my posts. In my first post I said "even with a fast processor and faster M.2 SSD"

Again in my first post I said "I asked the same question on the MSI forum and they told me it was not their fault but AMD's processor."

I also said in my last post before your's "I'm booting only in UEFI mode and the only boot device is my WD 1TB black M.2NVME"

As MSI points to AMD and AMD is not responding to their customers, my patience is gone.

I will take my loss.

Greetings,

tom

[gnoll]

Hi tomdepommie‌,

as pokester‌ mentioned, this is a user forum, this means that you are talking with users that try to help other users, we are not working for AMD, not paid, nor compensated in any way. 

Said so, I understand your frustration, but by no means this justifies the way you are managing communications here, as we are helping for free here, we expect at least some co-operation from your side and to be addressed respectfully.

If you want to try to troubleshoot the issue, please give us the information that you are asked for and do the troubleshooting steps that we suggested.

I cannot assure you that we can solve the issue, but at least you will have the peace of mind of knowing that you tried all the options.

If instead you still believe that the issue is your CPU, then contact AMD for a warranty replacement, here is the link: https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/warranty-information/warranty 

[pokester]

Yes I am reading your posts. You just don't like the answers you get. Again faster m.2 ssd does NOT MEAN NVME. Again you still have not given a model number so no point in speculating. In fact the mistake we all made was trying to help when you have not given your full specs as required in these forums to even ask a question.

The MSI forum like this one is a community forum. As stated here in their rules " Forum Rules (Version: 20150106)

Welcome to the MSI Global English Forum.
This forum is a support community for users of MSI products, managed and maintained by users on behalf of MSI. Anyone can ask for help or offer help to others."

I did read you participated in THEIR FORUM. If you gave them as little hardware information as you have here, I am sure they could only speculate to and were happy to send you on your way. You should be opening a support request with their support department. The same as you should be doing with AMD and your M.2 maker.

Maybe it is the processor but like at MSI you have not actually talked with the support department, just the community driven forum. I don't doubt that their forum may have better participation from actual MSI support personnel. The AMD forum definitely DOES NOT have much AMD employee participation. 

Regardless you seem to have already decided what is wrong long before you ever came here so again not sure how the community can help? Several of us truly have tried. For our efforts you have been defensive and basically told us we can't read. FYI the people that have tried to help you here are among the very best this forum or any other for that matter have to offer. 

I will once again suggest you speak with the actual support departments of the companies involved by opening support requests, not just using a forum. 

I personally own 2 3600's and a 3700x. All on MSI B450 tomahawk boards and none of them currently have any issue like yours. My NVME was slow booting until I got a firmware update that fixed it. Of course in that same time frame I had a couple of MB bios updates too. Which may or may not have helped.

Regardless even if you it is your processor at fault talking about it here isn't going to get it fixed. All the controls for the processor are in the bios on the motherboard. So if MSI isn't helping you figure out if it is the processor or their board, then about all you can do is request an RMA on the processor and to do that you have to talk to AMD and this forum is not doing that.

I would try talking to AMD support before pursuing an RMA here: https://www.amd.com/en/support/contact-email-form 

If you want to ask for an RMA you can start that process here: https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/warranty-information/rma-form