PC Building

[aifartist]

Months of frustration has led to asking:



Does "AMD EXP Memory Overclocking Technology: Yes" mean:

- Circuitry exists to get the spelling right for the "EXPO" selection on the BIOS options.

- Saying "yes" was never intended to mean that using the rated EXPO speed, on a mobo which supports the 7985WX, with RAM that is on the QVL would actually work.

- So even if you are NOT a lab coat custom overclocker trying chip after chip to win the silicon lottery to go ABOVE the rated EXPO speed, no end consumer should have ever expected that using EXPO would actually work.

- If there is a shelf at Microcenter with 100 Kingston Fury Renegade Pro ddr5-6400 8x32 kits sitting there and one of them "MIGHT" work, having a 99% failure rate shouldn't be looked at as odd for the $7350 7985WX on the state of the art ASUS PRO WS WRX90E-SAGE SE EEB Motherboard.



If that is actually true shouldn't that be in the fine print on the spec sheet?  Yes, this sounds over the top but I'm been told by my custom build shop "Central Computers" that:
- Threadripper Pro CPUs are notorious for having issues clocking RAM up to RATED XMP/EXPO speeds. I have talked to two separate industry contacts, and they've assured me of this.



Where's that in the fine print?  How do I get my money back?  I spent $7,350 and I'm just a retired guy that has taken up AI as a hobby.

[BigAl01]

I don't quite understand your question, but the new AMD support forums (PC processor and graphics) should help you find an answer.  You'll need a new username and password for that account.

Are you hoping to overclock your memory with the 7985WX Threadripper Pro CPU?  

[aifartist]

OC'ing like what the lab coat folks do  or  simply enabling AMD's own Expo take at the rated speed on the box?  I have no intent to tweak voltages, UCLK, FCLK, and other things far over my head.

I just want EXPO to work as claimed.  What's wrong with asking this here in "pc-building".  This is a very focused question to AMD on whether they support a moderate EXPO speed on high end motherboards on their hugely expensive CPU using their own EXPO tech.
I'm not trying to run 6400 at 6800 or 7200 MHz.
I'm not trying 8000, 7800, 7600, ... 6800 rated RAM's.

What is the issue?

[BigAl01]

The issue is that this is not the AMD support forum; that has transitioned to a new platform.  This is only the Red Team right now, where users can talk about their computers and such.  If you want a real AMD person to address your question, it needs to be posted there.  

As for why your computer doesn't function properly when EXPO is enabled in the motherboard's BIOS, make sure you are using the latest BIOS release, and you have compatible memory installed.

[johnnyenglish]

EXPO is considered a form of overclocking and just like the consumer CPUs, there is a supported speed for which should be 100% guaranteed to work at any time.

Take my example, the 7950X has a 5200MTs supported speed even though I use EXPO at 6000 which is the rated memory speed.

If you have ECC memory then try it with EXPO disabled and run it at 5200. Or if you happen to have a lot of memory sticks, 4800.

Even though the ram is present on the QVL, which means it was tested, I had Corsair sticks that had issues while enabling it. Sure, the QVL makes life a lot easier but its not fail proof.

Good Luck

[aifartist]

"a form of overclocking"

a) I already knew that.  But there is nuance here.

b) This seems to be an attempt to sweep the issue under the rug with:

   Oh, the user is trying to OC his system and thinks it should be guaranteed to work.

   Well, it isn't "my overclocking" but the various partners which came up with a tested configuration.

c) Analogy: For laptops there is battery saving mode, normal, and performance profile.  Maybe they also have "ultra perf"

The question is what is the success rate for QVL tested memory?  5%, 10%, maybe 25%?  Where is the transparency?

Bait and switch almost to the degree of criminality.

a) AMD provides both basic speed support AND a technology of packaged tweaks it calls EXPO.

b) Ram makers slap that speed in large print on the side of the box, without fine print.

c) Mobo makers provide a list of supported "expo" speeds on their QVL without fine print.

I'm in the top .1% of skills in the software domain.  But I'm only moderately better than average(?) in the hardware domain.  What about the average dumb guy playing games on his system expecting truth in advertising.  Even I got duped.

Can AMD not tell me what the failure rate is for ddr5-6400 EXPO 8x32GB's ram kits on the best mobo I can buy?  If that failure rate is anything more than 10% that's obscene and a scam.  For all I know it might be 90%.

Speaking in AMD's voice:  Dan, but there is fine print.  Don't you see all the reddit/discord/etc. posts saying it is all smoke-and-mirrors, a scam, a bunch of Baloney Sandwiches abbreviations, etc.   Therefore our legal dept said we along with our partners can take your money and wash our hands.

[johnnyenglish]

---

@aifartist wrote:

The question is what is the success rate for QVL tested memory?  5%, 10%, maybe 25%?  Where is the transparency?

---

I wouldn't go that low, if i have to throw a number between my systems and some that I have prepared for others. The total ammount of failed to achieve the rated memory speed was 3 out of 20'ish systems (rough numbers are between 22-25).

In which 1 of those 3 was not on the QVL. The other 2 that failed was on the QVL and were both corsair branded. One was RMA'd back to Corsair as faulty, the replacement was just fine.

Most cases, you just enable EXPO and let it go. The "lottery winners" can even push beyond rated speeds or lower the latency considerably. I did, from CL36 to CL30.

In your specific case, you are going HEDT and use a lot of memory, this will put a lot of pressure on the integrated memory controller, not sure how the Threadripper handles it but I assume it will have limitations as well.

Example: In the consumer Ryzen, speeds will be affected if you use 4 sticks versus 2, this is documented in AMD support page.

---

@aifartist wrote:

Bait and switch almost to the degree of criminality.

---

Bait?

I can partially see the bait part from board&memory vendors, but when in 20 systems only 3 have failed, making at worst a 15% failure rate and at best less than 5%.

Criminality?

Debatable and at the same time, this is old news. There was a time that even Intel voided (tried? Cant remember) warranties on those who enabled XMP because of it being advertised as overclocking.
However and to be honest, Corsair honoured the warranty on the failed kit.

Remeber, EXPO is not groundbreaking new. We had XMP/DOCP and others around since Ryzen first Gen (not mentioning Intel) making this a common and very well known thing in the DIY world.

[aifartist]

Thanks for your response.  On my bait and switch/criminatlity comment.  It was intended as hyperbole to illustrate that if the vast majority of the memory kits rated at a specific speed can't do that speed with a compatible mobo then there's a real issue with that.

I have received many unofficial comments on reddit and discord saying it is a fools errand to trust the QVL and the RAM manufactures rated speed.  Also, I've heard that threadrippers in particular are notorious for having this kind of issue.  Had I not heard this I would have long since just had the ram kit RMA'ed for another one to complete my build.  But if it turns out to be a dirty little secret that it rarely works at the rated speed than I simply don't want my time wasted running around in circles only to discover the bad news later and grayer.

Yes, it takes winning the silicon lottery to go beyond the speed on the ram/QVL.  But I am not trying to do that.

Note on your 4 sticks vs 2 sticks comment and the fact that this is documented:  I am not expecting 2 stick performance from putting in two sets of 2 stick ram into 4 slots.  Yes, I know about how more sticks stress the MC and how larger amounts of RAM can't be run as fast.  The QVL even gives 7800 for  V-color 8x16.  "8X" because my threadripper is a 8 Memory channel CPU.  So yes the support speed to be lower with larger memory kits and they are.  In my case because I want 8x32 I am willing to run the SLOWER rated speed supported kits.