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OpenCL

sdar
Journeyman III

Re: Blender Cycles(Opencl on AMD GPUS)

I'm not sure what are you trying to say, neither English or Spanish version of your post, if you want to say that amd will fight against consoles with mantle you are wrong, both consoles (ps4 and xbox) uses AMD hardware already so there's no need for amd to fight against their own partnerships, They are already using their own low level apis and both microsoft and sony has no intentions to use mantle, but as i say this is not a big deal for amd cause they powered both consoles with their hardware.

Mantle could "fight" against DirectX but there's no real need for it cause it's only compatible with AMD GCN cards and developers are not going to drop Nvidia Intel and even Amd users with non-gcn cards so DirectX / OpenGl are going to be in every game out there for those users.

Anyway as stated by John Carmack Opengl plus Nvidia extensions can give similar improvements over directx and now that SteamOS is out Amd must try to fix their linux drivers and OpenGL performance to match Nvidia performance or even surpass it mantle could be a nice Opengl extension in near future but is not a deal breaker.

I don't know what's the AMD agenda for the year but we have waited enough, and as i stated a few times "This bug is not only affecting Cycles" and in my opinion converts a firepro S10000 in a extremely expensive paperweight.


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No estoy seguro de lo que quieres decir ni en ingles ni en español, Si lo que dices es que Amd va a luchar contra las consolas este año utilizando mantle vas mal encaminado, Ambas consolas (ps4 y xbox) utilizan hardware de amd así que amd no necesita luchar contra ellas ya que son sus socios.


Las consolas ya están utilizando sus propias apis de bajo nivel así que no necesitan mantle pero como ya he dicho eso a AMD no le afecta puesto que ambas consolas están utilizando su Hardware de todas formas.


Mantle podría "luchar" contra DirectX pero en realidad no tiene sentido ya que los desarrolladores tienen que dar soporte a usuarios de Nvidia, Intel e incluso usuarios de AMD que no utilizan gráficas GCN por lo tanto DirectX u OpenCL seguirán existiendo en todos los juegos para poder dar soporte a lo que son una mayoría de usuarios.


De todas formas tal y como dijo John Carmack "OpenGL con extensiones de Nvidia consiguen una mejora similar sobre DirectX a la que mantle sugiere", y ahora que SteamOS ha sido lanzado Amd debería intentar mejorar sus drivers de linux y el rendimiento de Opengl para poder competir con Nvidia, Mantle sera un buen comienzo introducido como extensión en Opengl pero Nvidia ya tiene sus propias extensiones que harán que la lucha este muy igualada.


No se cual es la agenda de AMD para este año pero creo que hemos esperado bastante y como ya he dicho antes unas cuantas veces "Este Bug no solo afecta a Cycles" y en mi opinión convierte una FirePro S10000 en un carisimo pisapapeles.

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cusa123
Adept I

Re: Blender Cycles(Opencl on AMD GPUS)

What I mean is that amd has to start creating optimizations for the new consoles. And if you do not want a failure as "3dfx Glide" will have to put everything if that does not happen the same. Like if I do not start lifting firepro head in the professional field and even Nvidia intel iran is the eating by little. Amd I think at this stage should focus on the drivers and took new gpus now, when the hd 7000 came in 2012 had a long time without gpus. I think we should have a year now drivers. one year and one with gpus drivers. I think this year amd has to be a priority Mantle and OpenCL optimizations. I would like to see some day cycles in amd, arion render or better octane render. "FirePro S10000 on a very expensive paperweight"'re right also saw the promotion of OpenCL amd blender cycles in the web?

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Lo que quiero decir es que amd tiene que empezar a crear optimizaciones para las nuevas consolas. Y si no quiere un fracaso como "Glide de 3dfx" tendra que poner todo de si para que no le pase lo mismo. Pienso igual que si la firepro no empieza a levantar cabeza en el campo profesional Nvidia e incluso intel se los iran comiendo de apoco. Creo que amd a estas alturas deberia centrarse en los drivers ya sacaron gpus nuevas ahora, cuando salieron las hd 7000 en el 2012 tuvimos un largo tiempo sin gpus. Pienso que deberiamos tener un año ahora de drivers. un año con drivers y otro con gpus. Pienso que este año amd tiene que tener como prioridad Mantle y opencl optimizaciones. Quisiera ver algun dia cycles en amd , arion render o mejor octane render.   "FirePro S10000 en un carisimo pisapapeles" estas en lo correcto tambien viste la promocion de amd opencl blender cycles en al web?

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sharlybg
Adept II

Re: Blender Cycles(Opencl on AMD GPUS)

I'm sure that Kaveri with it's HSA and Huma could change thing ? If blender get some improvement for HSA support I'm almost sure that the A10 7850 k will be faster than a i7 4770 k. But i think that Kaveri will allow blender cycles to use full power of GCN Gpu .

But we need to Know if this is possible or if developper are ready for such thing !

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extraymond
Journeyman III

Re: Blender Cycles(Opencl on AMD GPUS)

Any news on this topic?

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cusa123
Adept I

Re: Blender Cycles(Opencl on AMD GPUS)

Simple answer extraymond amd abandoned us like 2 years ago or so. they are a truly stupid question but one could rewrite api mantle blender for better use of cycles or a chance to ride something in 3d render?. no offense amd but this forum is half or completely dead,just us users to whom we speak and we had information we could get amd gives nothing.

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extraymond respuesta simple amd nos abandono hace como 2 años mas o menos .les are una pregunta realmente estupida pero la api mantle se podria rescribir blender para un mejor uso de cycles o alguna oportunidad de hacer andar algo en 3d render?.Sin animos de ofender pero este foro de amd esta medio o completamente muerto, solamente somos nosotros los usuarios al cual hablamos y nos pasamos datos que podriamos obtener amd no da nada.

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sdar
Journeyman III

Re: Blender Cycles(Opencl on AMD GPUS)

HSA could help real time visualization but for renders Opencl is more suitable.

Cycles is working fine using Opencl with Intel and Nvidia hardware (With Nvidia you can use Opencl or Cuda) so there's no need to rewrite Blender code at all.

I'm not sure if amd is trying to fix this or they're just focusing in their new Mantle and HSA technology

HSA should be the Opencl alternative but then you need two things to make it work with blender:

1. New HSA Hardware (So users will have to buy new hardware to use something that should work with Opencl)

2. Blender devs needs to rewrite Cycles to run with HSA not knowing if they're going to hit another bug like this that took amd years to... not solve.


I regret buying an amd card, i was enticed for the good looking benchmarks so i didn't pay attention to possible bugs, that amd posted that are going to be fixed anyway so i never expect to have this bug years later.


I wish amd the best of luck with HSA and mantle and i hope that in the future the bugs will be solved in months not in years (or never), but at the moment i'm really disappointed.


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HSA podría ayudar con visualización a tiempo real pero para renders Opencl es mas apropiado.


Cycles esta funcionando bien utilizando Opencl con Intel y NVidia (Con NVidia pudiendo utilizar tanto OpenCL como CUDA) así que no hay ninguna necesidad en reescribir código de blender.


No tengo claro si amd esta intentado arreglar esto o simplemente se están centrando en sus nuevas tecnologías Mantle y HSA.


HSA debería ser la alternativa de Opencl pero para que funcione con blender necesitaras dos cosas:

1. Nuevo hardware compatible con HSA (Así que los usuarios tendrán que comprar hardware nuevo para hacer uso de algo que debería haber funcionado con Opencl en primer lugar)

2. Los desarrolladores de Blender necesitaran reescribir Cycles para que utilizar HSA sin la certeza de terminar en la misma situación con un bug que amd tardara años en .... NO arreglar.


Me arrepiento de haber comprado una gráfica de AMD, me deje llevar por los benchmarks sin hacer demasiado caso a los posibles problemas, que de todas formas amd dijo se iban a solucionar, así que nunca espere que los bugs persistieran años después.


Le deseo la mejor de las suertes a AMD con HSA y MANTLE y espero que en el futuro los bugs se arreglen en cuestión de meses y no años (o nunca), pero de momento estoy muy decepcionado.

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cusa123
Adept I

Re: Blender Cycles(Opencl on AMD GPUS)

himanshu.gautam are a useless. In none of the information for anything I pen but the fixer Vini NVIDIA destruya delighted that my GPU amd really disappointed amd es cierto es only it humo. I am sorry a la gente los fans amd,but I also thought I was a fan of amd and now I feel really defected eh fatal and that I am a designer. I need the pc for graphics and renders no use to me, that a global company solamete amd put me there LuxRender excuse and nothing more. An engine that I have nothing against him but is really slowpidiria whether a refund of the graph. But the worst thing you can do is not to buy more products and discredit amd I think is worse.

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himanshu.gautam  es un inutil. No da ninguna informacion para nada   me da pena, pero si viniera "the fixer" de nvidia encantado de que destruya mi gpu amd, realmente decepcionado es cierto amd es solamente humo. Lamento a la gente o los fans amd , pero yo tambien pense que era un fan de amd y ahora eh desertado me siento realmente fatal y eso que soy diseñador. Que la pc la necesito para graficos y renders no me sirve, que solamete amd una empresa mundial me ponga de excusa que existe luxrender y nada mas. Un motor que no tengo nada contra el pero es realmente lento eh incompleto, en si pidiria un rembolso de la grafica. Pero lo peor que puedo hacer es no comprar mas productos amd y desprestigiarla que pienso que es peor.

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himanshu_gautam
Grandmaster

Re: Blender Cycles(Opencl on AMD GPUS)

I am no longer supporting the OpenCL Developer Forums officially. I would request all to refrain from quoting me in messages and sending me personal messages containing Driver bugs. It was a great experience supporting the forums for such a long time.

None of that means I wont be back here . I will be visiting the forums but just like others. I hope the current forum moderators will help me in case i land into

any bugs while developing OpenCL applications

Thanks to everyone.

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developer
Adept II

Re: Blender Cycles(Opencl on AMD GPUS)

Hi There! Cusa,

There has been a rejig in the forum support and some one is going to start supporting all forum activities soon. We (himanshu, bruhaspati and team) are not doing this now.

But, Blender is an issue that is being addressed within AMD. It has to be done at multiple levels. First, they got it compiled and then what we heard is that the performance-issues are being addressed. So, You will have to accept that there is progress. It will take some time before these kind of massive changes come out....

I won't say "Be Patient". Because you guys have been patient for so long....

There is nothing more we can do from our side....But for all we know, AMD is working and they will fix these over time...

Let good luck be with the AMD team,

Best,

Bruhaspati

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developer
Adept II

Re: Blender Cycles(Opencl on AMD GPUS)

Good.

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