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pokester
MVP

Re: Low performance RX Vega64 In Horizon Zero Dawn

Based on what I can tell, to get a working driver requires that you load pre 2020 drivers to begin with that still have the switchable graphic control in the drivers. 

I am not sure though how much of an option that is though for the new 4xxx lineup. As the old drivers likely won't recognize those chips. 

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hopkins
Adept II

Re: Low performance RX Vega64 In Horizon Zero Dawn

You now what pisses me off? I remember the Vega series being hyped up as a killer graphics card when it comes to the value. Heck, I even participated on the AMD Vega World tour and I could see and try the AMD Vega 56 in Budapest in 2017 summer during their event where you needed preregistration to get in. They were referring to it as new architecture and praising it to heaven. I was really hyped after the event and was eager to get my hands on a Vega card. In the first round I could not get one because of their papaer launch(every unit got bought immediately), so in october I could get my hands on it in the second round form scan.co.uk for 397 GBP. I was so happy and hyped that I got the most advamced AMD GPU and that I made a good bet because it offers best-in-class performance.

I could never imagine AMD let us down after all the hype. But I can see how badly Horizon Zero Dawn runs on Vega and there is not a single hint whether we are gonna get an updated driver. I am looking the forums but I don't see that AMD would be working on it, except a reddit post where a Radeon Community Team member replied that they are investigating(that's something at least), https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/i68nkd/horizon_zero_dawn_vega_16x_af_hbcc_performance/ .

I hope they will rectify this driver issue because there is no way this GPU could not performe at least on par with GTX 1070.

pokester
MVP

Re: Low performance RX Vega64 In Horizon Zero Dawn

Just make sure to report it to AMD: https://www.amd.com/en/support/contact-email-form 

Also a lot of the tech sites have emails or forums you can contact them in and unlike here the people that run the show, respond and participate.

Explain it to them. Maybe one of them will do a video of the situation and that might actually gain some traction with AMD.

Seeing as AMD is not abandoning Vega, just its users at this point as they are going to continue its usage in mobile chips. It is in their best interest to optimize the drivers. Especially since mobile is handicapped to begin with not being nearly as strong in the hardware but does have the same architecture. 

I just hate to say I told you so as I had said numerous times before the launch of navi that support for Vega would drop like a lead balloon. That I thought AMD couldn't wait to put it behind them. It sure looks like in reality it is moving in that direction. 

I still have to wonder why the choice to continue vega in upcoming APUs. Is it that Navi just isn't working out in that arena and is far worse than even vega. Or is there some sort of non compete clause with console makers for the first year or something with APU's having Navi graphics similar to the next gen consoles. 

No idea but to me it is strange. 

Bottom line though is that at this point the whole GCN line is still supposedly supported and without doubt the whole product stack has suffered. From poor optimization for Vega, for Polaris that won't run any 2020 drivers unless you franken-mod the driver to use the new driver with the 2019 interface. 

Has anyone seen if this lack of optimization for this game does do the same all the way down the GCN pipe? Or is it really just Vega.

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pokester
MVP

Re: Low performance RX Vega64 In Horizon Zero Dawn

Okay apparently blackzion has posted the answer to one of my questions.

https://community.amd.com/thread/255895 

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colesdav
MVP

Re: Low performance RX Vega64 In Horizon Zero Dawn

I can remember a couple of things about a video  of the Budapest event for Vega:
Dióhéjban: AMD Radeon RX Vega gamer találkozó Budapesten | PlayDome - YouTube 
I do not think it gave many technical answers though:
https://www.pcinvasion.com/amd-vega-budapest-event-provides-answers-performance/ 

Many features on Vega were never fully utilised or implemented.
AMD gave up on it.
https://techreport.com/news/33153/radeon-rx-vega-primitive-shaders-will-need-api-support/ 
Navi is Vega done "properly".
Pity it doesnt have HBM2e and HBCC though.

hopkins
Adept II

Re: Low performance RX Vega64 In Horizon Zero Dawn

Yeah I know we did not get many technical details, we all assumed the other PC was running on Nvidia GTX 1080 which was confirmed in the comments. What I was blown away by was the overall experience, back then a GTX 1080 was pretty expensive and you could utilize G-sync with G-sync monitor only. Then they showed the Vega on the Siggraph presentation and I was even more pumped for this card also because of the promised features. What a missed opportunity if I think about it when I read your article...making matters worse was the terrible paper launch of the Vega which I could get also in the 2. MSRP launch round after the first stock was sold out in couple of minutes.

I don't get why they gave up on HBCC and HBM2 memory because the highlighted those as strong selling points on their presentation. It's just displeasing they present something and in the next generation they are already ditching it.

A lot has changed since then when it comes to Nvidia also as for example you can use most freesync monitors with Nvidia GPU which was a big middle finger to AMD. Yesterday I watched the Nvidia presentation and honestly I was blown away, I did not expect such aggressive performance boost and competitve pricing. I will see what AMD will bring to the table but if they won't address the performance issues on Horizon Zero Dawn my next card will be Nvidia.

colesdav
MVP

Re: Low performance RX Vega64 In Horizon Zero Dawn

The RTX3000 series performance boost was a nice surprise for Nvidia and probably a shock for AMD.
However - remember that Turing rasterisation performance uplift was not as high as many people were hoping for - in DX11 at least.

I am surprised at the Total Graphics Card power consumption for the RTX3090/3080/3070 at 350/320/220 Watts. 
Likely down to having to launch on Samsung 8nm versus latest TSMC 7nm process.

At least NVIDA GPUs actually monitor and control total power input to their GPUs at the PCIe Slot and the x8/x6 pin input leads using a current shunt at each input and have an IC to monitor the total power input and keep it at the Power Target Level.
AMD GPUs only monitor and control power input from the VRM into the GPU IC.
That means you can get some large input power levels on the RX Vega 64 Liquid and RX 5700XT compared to their "TDP" when you increase the Power Target  in Radeon Settings.
 
The pricing - I think Nvidia are trying to keep the higher price bands that came in with Turing but they have at least dropped the Founder Edition card pricing by $100 for the two lower end cards - possibly to attack "Big Navi" from the start. 

Here are the RTX 2000 series Turing Launch pricing:
$599 for the RTX 2070; $799 for the RTX 2080, and $1,199 for the RTX 2080 Ti

Here are the RTX 3000 series Ampere Launch pricing:
$500 of the RTX 3070 , $700 for the RTX 3080 and a whopping $1500 for the RTX 3090.

For the Turing Series the Founders Edition cards were better binned GPU silicon and the GPU shroud and cooler was really complicated.
They were generally ~ $100 more expensive than the lowest cost AIB cards.

colesdav
MVP

Re: Low performance RX Vega64 In Horizon Zero Dawn

Another point to note:
780 Ti cost $649, the 980 Ti cost $649 at launch - the RTX2080TI cost $1200 at launch - the RTX3090 now costs $1500 at launch.
Owch.

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colesdav
MVP

Re: Low performance RX Vega64 In Horizon Zero Dawn

And the GTX 1080 was ...
The Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Founders Edition graphics card comes with a recommended retail price of $699 (£483). The custom boards will start are around $599 (£394).

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hopkins
Adept II

Re: Low performance RX Vega64 In Horizon Zero Dawn

Yeah that 100 Dollars lower price was the thing I was suprised about. For me the RTX 3070 is where the value is at. It is still expensive but considering the performance and the RTX performance compared to the RTX 2080Ti it looks like a crazy value for the money. I know the 2080Ti was overpriced but still..

A cannot wait what big Navi brings to the table and whether AMD will bring us extra features like DirectStorage or their own DLSS solution(which would come in handy in many games) but I for now I cannot imagine AMD surpassing Nvidia, they will hard time to do so even when it comes to price. I will wait until all these GPUs are out and the consoles are released and will decide on which hardware will I spend my money.