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colesdav
MVP

Re: Newegg not giving Game Codes nor Answering to my requiries

RE: I have 16gb of ram the Team ram was on sale. This processor runs much cooler than my old FX 9370. An all i need is to replace my R9 Sapphire Nitro 390. Which uses 16 power pin slots.8x8. So a good answer would be appreciated. Also i am considering a Nano. Nanos run VERY cool. a Vega 56 Nano i am considering but i don't think i need that much power for what i do. Mostly file compression and graphics editing.

(1). First of all.

You will likely be able to get more feedback about your build if you  go here:
https://community.amd.com/community/red-team/rig-showcase
and fill out the following form:

https://community.amd.com/apps/ps-formbuilder#canvas:{%22category%22:%22Rigs%22,%22template%22:%22Re...
You do not need to be a member of the "Red Team" to use this but you might get some good advice and help for your build from AMD users.

(2). In terms of replacing your R9 Sapphire Nitro 390 with a more energy efficient GPU, if you really want the best Performance / Power GPU you will likely have to go for an Nvidia GPU at the moment.

AMD Performance / Power position is bad at the moment.
An RX580 burns ~ same power as a GTX1080 giving half the performance for ~ same power as the GTX1080.
If I were you I would use AMD Overdrive settings to reduce the power target on your 390 and if you have any patience left with AMD, wait to see what Navi is and how it performs.

(3). You could consider use of Radeon Chill, however Chill will only really save you significant and useful amounts of power power if you drop Chill Min to a very low value. In addition that power saving only occurs when you have zero keyboard or mouse button input. All Chill does is detect if a keyboard key is pressed. If it is it ramps up the FPS. Unlike the Hocus Pocus you may hear from others on the Web, Chill does not monitor "in game activity" or anything more complicated. It checks for Keyboard and mouse input. It limits the maximum keyboard only input (i.e. you are not also moving the mouse) to Chill_Min + (15-25) FPS, depending on if you set Chill_Max to 60 (= Chill_Min +15) or Chill Max to 300 ( (= Chill_Min +25) .

So for example I have a new RX Vega 64 Liquid which didn't come with any free games and cost 570.
That GPU is supposed to be able to run 4K 60 FPS.
I can run BFV at 4k Ultra settings and I can get 60 FPS initially, with some HBM overclocking and a very small GPU CLK overclock and careful undervolting.

It took me ages to find a stable undervolt/and overclock settings because if I try to use AMD auto overclock feature it instantly black screens and freezes my PC and has also caused a complete corruption  of my Windows OS on a couple of occations after I had to Hard Power Off the machine. I reported that problem to AMD end last November 2018 and it is still broken in latest drivers.

I have to run the GPU watercooler fan at Maximum r.p.m. That is very loud. I am actually considering purchacing another fan of teh same type and adding it as a push -> Radiator -> Pull fan to attempt to get the GPU temps down further. It's O.K. I can move to using headphones instaed of listing to speaker output.

As I play the game for 5 minutes using my manual overclock/undervolt I see the GPU temperatures rise from ~ 30'C -> 58'C (Max is 60'C). The screen starts to show flashing green/blue rectangles distortion. The Radeon Driver will Crash and the PC will freeze, guaranteed.  Note the GPU Power in this case is reporting as high as 370Watts for the GPU alone.

I looked at using Radeon Chill to attempt to allow me to keep temperatures down when I am hiding from enemies or sniping at them. I set the Global FRTC to 59 FPS to prevent the GPU Frame rate from exceeding the monitor refresh rate of 60Hz (and if using, top end of the monitor FreeSync range of 59Hz), If the GPU is able to  exceed or sit at that  that 60/59 Hz/FPS range I will get screen tearing. 

I kept the BFV Profile local FRTC switched off (otherwise it changes to the value of Chill_Max setting and overrides the Global FTRC value of 59, if I want to get maximum performance out of GPU will Chill on when I am moving around then I will need Chill_Max at 300). I set Chill_Min to 30 and Chill_Max to 300. Note to use Radeon Chill Effectively I have to turn on the Radeon Performance Overlay and the Radeon Performance Overlay has to be able to report GPU Power as well as FPS etc, otherwise I will not be able to use Chill to the full extent possible.

Here are the results of running Chill.
Leaving Chill on my framerates will vary between 30 FPS with no keyboard or mouse input to a maximum peak of only 54 FPS with keyboard only input (*say running in a straight line with Shift and W held down, mostly it peaks out at 53 FPS, with Chill on. If I hold down Shift and repeatedly and rapidly press the W key so my character runs, stops, runs, stops, in some sort of unrealistic "chicken walk" motion, then I can hit a peak of 59 FPS. But I would not naturally play the game that way. 

Having Chill activated whist the character is running reduces the FPS by about 12% and only reduces power by a few watts based on my observations a generous typixcal figure is10 Watts. That is nothing really for such a big hit in FPS. I think having Chill active to monitor the FPS and adjust the CPU/GPU operation must also cost some power.

I have set the Chill Hotkey from the default F11 to Alt+W, - some basic "ergonomics" would tell anyone that a right handed player who has his right hand occupied using his mouse and his left hand using WASD, Q E Z X C in BFV. Trying to accurately hit F11 to engage Radeon Chill quickly to prevent a GPU and GPU driver crash due to over temperature is not the most convienient thing to do.

If I have Chill switched on and I am hiding in a corner and not touchinng the keyboiard or mouse the FPS will drop to about 30 FPS. The GPU power does drop. But how much it drops depends on where my character is looking in the game. So say Chill is off and the GPU is burning 330 Watts as my character stands motionless hiding behind a corner. Say I Alt+W or F11 to turn Chill On. The GPU power will usually drop down to ~ 220-240Watts. That will bring the GPU temperature down by a few degrees, if I stand there waiting. What I actually do is try to make the game character look at the floor or the ceiling or wherever will drop the GPU Power to the minimum possible. Some times I have seen the Power drop down to 110Watts from 220-240Watts with Chill on.  I will then wait until the GPU temperature drops to about 40'C before moving again, with Chill on or Chill off, depending on how much FPS I think I might need (53) or (59/60).

Using Chill, either permanently on and accepting I cam only hit peak of ~ 53FPS or using my "Chill Tactics" above can get me through a game of BFV Combined Operations at 4K Ultra with a ~ "meh" experience. I still see the Green/Blue screen flashing at times. But at least I can actually complete a game with reasonable framerates when my game character needs it.

One point I am finding difficult to fathom is why Radeon Chill ramps up the FPS from 30FPS to 52FPS and the  Power Consumption from ~ 240Watts to 330Watts when I just zoom in using a sniper scope by holding the right mouse button down.

Now you might say wow, turning Chill on, with no mouse and keyboard input, drops your power consumption down from 330W to 220-240 Watts. With 30FPS output, if you find that acceptable.

Except here is what happened. I was/am so unhappy with the RX Vega 64 Liquid that I purchase an Palit RTX208O Gaming Pro OC bundle which was BFV Free Copy (60) + the GPU (590). 

I have the RTX 2080 installed on the same machine as the RX Vega 64 Liquid.

The Maximum TDP for that GPU is 215 Watts. It runs BFV 4K Ultra at 60FPS no problem at stock clocks. I do not even have to ramp up the fan speed. The total TDP of that GPU is less than the amout of power the RX Vega 64 Liquid burns with Chill On and no keyboard or mouse input.

Don't get me wrong, Chill has it's uses but it needs many improvements to allow the user to tune the way that Chill runs and works, on a per game basis.
I have been requesting for these changes and improvements for years.

But overall you may now get an idea of how bad the Performance Versus Power situation is.
Navi better be better than this.

Hope this information is useful to you. Talk later. Bye.

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colesdav
MVP

Re: Newegg not giving Game Codes nor Answering to my requiries

Hi warsun 

Regarding your Ram - I do not have time to look, but have you checked it is actually on the Motherboard QVL (Qualified Vendors List)?

Even then you may find this useful to read:
https://community.amd.com/message/2904355

Please create a separate post regarding your build, and I, and others might be able to discuss with you there.

Thanks.



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colesdav
MVP

Re: Newegg not giving Game Codes nor Answering to my requiries

I will check a few typing errors later .... I posted before I lost it and had no time to fix...

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warsun
Challenger

Re: Newegg not giving Game Codes nor Answering to my requiries

I actually found out what was causing my ram problem It appears Installing Firefox has an issue. Because my system didn't crash immediately. I took it as a bad install. So i went to uninstall Firefox. An found Firefox version 56. which i originally installed an hit upgrade. Which upgraded me to Mozilla Firefox 65.0.1 In which i Upgraded again to 66.0.5. When i checked the Uninstaller. I found All three installs still sitting there. So i removed all of them an manually installed 66.0.5 No random memory problems since. However.

Nexus Mod Manager has now been retired. An now i am FORCED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to use the Nexus Vortex mod installer.

An now IT is giving me memory errors.

0x0000000000F52F0E referenced memory at 0x0000000031070000.

The Memory Could not be written 

Lovely.

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warsun
Challenger

Re: Newegg not giving Game Codes nor Answering to my requiries

I have read your wall of text. Thank you. An i am not buying Nvidia products.  I had a 560 an they released a patch that kills older graphics cards. I never want to deal with that type of company. You can say they save me tons of power. But if they kill your card after a few years of use. I consider it unforgivable. They could just discontinue services on it. No. They made a program that bricks a graphics card.

Chill is working very well. I am currently using it. Still cant get into Skyrim. But loving Chill while doing file compression an burning Bluray. Thank you.

colesdav
MVP

Re: Newegg not giving Game Codes nor Answering to my requiries

Sure thing. Everyone has their own experiences. The Nvidia RTX2080OC memory might artifact and die on me.


You asked for best low power option. If you want a lowest and most efficient power option then Nvidia are best at the moment.
Chill is an option with AMD but if you look into it you will see that there are both performance and power issues and other limitations / issues with Chill. RX Vega 64 Liquid are very power hungry when you try to get performance to match Nvidia RTX 2080 and you mentioned an RX Vega 56 Nano might be too much for your needs. So I was just telling you how an RX Vega 64 Liquid performs, using Chill.

Next level GPU down from Vega 56 are RX580/570. Those are the GPU I would look at if I had to to buy an AMD GPU today.
Those GPU come with free games and if you wanted those games and were going to purchase them the the RX570 is almost a "free GPU" based on the prices I see here. You can always use Wattman power slider, Frame Rate Target Control, and if you are o.k. with the limitiations, and if it is working properly, Chill.


Sorry about the "wall of text" on Chill but I have just been testing it versus RTX2080OC and I was just noting down what I see.
Chill should not run any differently on your R9 390 - it should show similar behavior. You will have frame rate drops, you should see little power saving when your character moves, if you can actually monitor GPU power on your R9 390 in Radeon Overlay (I cannot see the power reported for my R9 Fury X/Fury/Nanos). You should not see much temperature or power saving unless you drop Chill_Min to a very low FPS limit. If you move your mouse, sometimes FPS will be limited to Chill_Min (which is the new intended behavior according to initial Adrenalin 2019 release notes) or sometimes it will be limited to Global FRTC or will not be limited at all if you do not set FRTC - this was the pre-Adrenalin 2019 behavior. There seems to be a bug / problem with mouse movement limited to Chill_Min on Adrenalin 2019. Sometimes it works, and sometimes you get the old behavior.

The power numbers I quoted with Chill On =, no movement in previous post are from DDU in safe mode followed by Adrenalin 2019 19.5.1. Slight mouse movement is causing FPS to ramp up to Global FRTC in that version, That is causing higher power levels to persist with Chill on and with no keyboard or mouse movement. I also see GPU power levels spiking to 210W during game intro cutscense with Chill on, and Chill min set to 30, and the in game FPS counter reporting 30 FPS. I should probably file a bug report on that so AMD can fix it.

Anyway good luck.
RX580/570 or wait for Navi and see how it performs.

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colesdav
MVP

Re: Newegg not giving Game Codes nor Answering to my requiries

Here is a screenshot of the reported GPU Power Draw from an RX Vega 64 Liquid running BFV at 4K Ultra Settings.
DDU in Safe Mode and fresh install of Adrenalin 2019 19.5.1.
Chill on.

Chill_Min 30.

Chill_Max 300 so it doesn't kill my keyboard only input FPS if I press and hold down W to walk or Shift + W to Run  run in BFV game.
Global FRTC set to 59 to prevent screen tear on a 60Hz monitor.

Again I am using Chill with a slightly overclcoked and undervolted RX Vega 64 Liquid in an attempt to get through a single game of Combined Operations with ~ 59 FPS when my character is running / moving,  without the Radeon Drivers Crashing and the GPU Overheating. If the GPU starts to get too hot I hide the character somewhere and turn Chill on.

Situation in the screenshot below is my game character is standing still in a corridor.
No mouse or keyboard input for minutes.
I took the picture with my Phone Camera since touching any keys on the keyboard such as Ctrl+Shift+E would ramp up Chill FPS + Power.
Relive is switched off anyhow so I couldn't take a screenshot anyhow.

You can see the GPU Power is reported as a massive 278 Watts, whilst nothing is happening in the game, and Radeon Chill is turned on. 

pastedImage_1.png

The red 30FPS (red because Origin consider that 30 FPS is ridiculously low) in the Top Right Hand corner is the in game FPS Monitor.
You can display that by doing the following:
Press `key to open the Origin Console.
Type the following two lines.

PerfOverlay.DrawFps 1

PerfOverlay FpsDisplayScale 4

You need the second line to scale up the text size since I am running the game at 4K 60Hz resolution scale. 

Some other points.

The Radeon Performance overly also reports the Chill Min FPS value of 30 FPS.

The reported GPU SCLK seems far too high to me. Far higher than any value I have set, so maybe Wattman is actually broken.

The CPU Utilization is reported as Zero. I am running on an AMD Ryzen 2700X with max clock frequency limited to 4.3 GHz.
The CPU Utilization is reported correctly for the same GPU and Driver run on an Intel Processor.
I already files an AMD Reporting Form about that one.

In this case, rapidly /  wildly moving the mouse, with Chill  the FPS is still limited to Chill_Min. 
So that is not the problem in this case. Like I said, sometimes when I DDU + Clean install Adrenalin 2019 rapid mouse movement does honor Chill Min, and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes an incremental install of the Adrenalin 2019 driver + reboot fixes that issue.

I will open another post and file another AMD Reporting form about this if I have time.

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colesdav
MVP

Re: Newegg not giving Game Codes nor Answering to my requiries

Just using Sniper Scope  in by pressing down the right mouse button then Chill ramps up FPS to ~ 52 FPS amd the GPU Power is reported as 324 Watts.
Nothing else is happening in game. No other game characters. No movement, Just looking at a wall at 4K Ultra in BFV down a sniper scope with Chill on = 324 Watts. It makes no sense to me why you would want to ramp up FPS and burn that much additional power in this case.

pastedImage_1.png

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