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pokester
MVP

Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC

I get your sentiment about Linux. I myself like it. I don't however think that even with all the usability strides they have made and they have made a ton. It is an OS for the masses yet. It just isn't low end knowledge user capable yet. Even with all they did I think most standard users are very confused. I base this on the many older machines I loaded Linux on for friends that had XP machines they didn't want to replace.  Most however picked it up and are better for it in the long run and are more knowledgeable now then they were. My statements are really about how the transition would be very uncomfortable for many and once there still limits choices by comparison. I think that Linux in a few more versions will likely get there, if major commercial apps begin to truly sport it for sure. I like Ubuntu a lot. I don't use it daily because so much of what I do is just not on Linux unfortunately, yet I know they have alternatives but I have to use what my customers use. If the Adobe Creative Suite and the various support softwares for it were on Linux that would quickly change. I think many creative people are fed up with Mac and would jump to Linux in a heart beat if Adobe was there. Then with my games while getting so much better, it is just such a hassle to get many things working if at all. So while I can't suggest for everyone to just switch, I will say it is a great alternative for many, especially those that don't mind learning new tricks and already mostly use just open source software and the Internet, it's a no brainer. Now the funny thing is that I have had Linux updates mess up my installation in the past too. Again I really do get where you are coming from and look forward to a day that it becomes a great alternative for most. I think with MS buying GitHub and their increasing involvement in open source, I think they see the writing on the wall too.

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colesdav
MVP

Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC

Hi.
I am running on two separate hard drives.

The problem I have is a known issue.

I will hunt for detailed information on it later and post it here.

Bye.  

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colesdav
MVP

Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC

Hi,

I did read your responses on this thread.

I think that you think Ubuntu is not in a state where non technical people could use it.

I have relatives and friends who run Ubuntu 16.04 LTS, who are not 'computer experts' or even interested in technology at all.

In any case, what happens when something goes wrong with a non-technical persons PC or Laptop running Windows 10 64bit?

Does Windows fix the issues itself - absolutely not.
They will ask someone they know who is technical to help them fix it or take it to a Computer Maintenance shop to get it fixed.  

I do not see how Ubuntu is any different, apart from the fact, in my experience at least, that software and kernel updates can run in the background whilst I am using my machine. Rolling back is easy. 

Many people are walking away from Windows and over to Ubuntu as their first Linux OS. 

I think that people who are reluctant to try Linux because they may have had bad experiences with Linux from years ago or maybe tried a particularly difficult Linux Distribution. Some are famous for being difficult to install, even today.


However I suggested Ubuntu 16.04LTS or 18.04LTS as the easiest way to move over to Linux from Windows.

Both Nvidia Proprietary and AMDGPU Drivers now come pre-installed.

Nvidia is a better user experience at the moment, because of the proprietary GPU driver with GUI to monitor and control GPU.

Steam on Linux works well with Nvidia cards.
Some Steam games on Linux need updated to run with the newer AMDGPU/PRO drivers.
At the moment AMDGPU/PRO Gpu Monitoring and control can be done at the command line using rocm-smi.

Alternatively radeon-profile could be used. I show a picture of that running on this Ubuntu 16.04 LTS machine here:
Temporary GUI Control and Monitoring solution on AMDGPU and AMDGPUPRO Ubuntu 16.04. - YouTube
I am doing some work at the moment to fix a problem where radeon-profile does not report GPU Utilisation on my machine, but it works overall. 
 

Ubuntu very easy to use, and very difficult to break unless you have admin privilege, which, as a non technical user, you should not have.
You can purchase Laptops or Desktops now with Linux Ubuntu pre-installed.

At the end of the day people can either behave like a sheep and put up with Microsoft Windows 10 or they can take steps to walk away from them.


Bye.

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elstaci
MVP

Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC

I am not doubting your word. Just saying that I, personally, haven't heard of anyone complaining about that issue that you mentioned. I do know that with so many different computer setups, you never know how they will interact with Windows or Dual Boot.

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elstaci
MVP

Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC

The only experience I have had with Linux has been using a Live DVD. But from what I have seen from other Users here at AMD Forum. It seems like you need to have some programming experience to run Linux.

For instance, With Windows you have .EXE files to run by itself including installation by clicking on the file. But in Linux ,  it seems you have to run a command line to run any type of installation program. Linux doesn't use .EXE files to run automatically by clicking on it. just my observations.

The Linux AMD driver extension is .TAR  and you need to run certain commands to run that program and install the driver.

True, In Windows, to troubleshoot or get information you sometimes need to know command coding. But most of the troubleshooting can be done by running certain Windows troubleshooting programs (.cabs) or 3rd party apps or by clicking on the appropriate link or icon in Windows Control Panel or Settings.

So, Windows is much more User friendly than Linux.  Most Users turn on the computer and Windows does the rest without forcing the User to have to input command coding to perform certain tasks.

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colesdav
MVP

Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC

RE: My statements are really about how the transition would be very uncomfortable for many and once there still limits choices by comparison.
Yes o.k. there is some transition effort, but I do not think it is that bad.
There are some limits in terms of Gaming RGB keyboard drivers / control software at the moment.

We all still have until Jan 2020 (Windows 7)  or even Jan 2023 (for Windows 8.1 64 bit Users) to get away from Microsoft Windows 10.

So that gives at minimum 1 year and 5 months to make a transition over to Ubuntu 16.04/18.04 LTS.

RE: I think that Linux in a few more versions will likely get there, if major commercial apps begin to truly support it for sure.
It seems to me there is a move, 'inspired' by Microsoft "Upgade to Windows 10" behaviour, along with many other concerns, to make Linux much easier for general users and improve it.

There are opensource alternatives to many 'Professional'  Apps.
Look at Blender for example. It is starting to take over more and more serious Rendering and Animation tasks, that previously required very expensive commercial licenses. AMD recently did a fantastic job to improve Blender MultiGPU performance on Windows 10 64bit. Likely that work will be translated over to Ubuntu next.

RE: . I think with MS buying GitHub and their increasing involvement in open source, I think they see the writing on the wall too.
Yes, Microsoft buying GitHub and guess what GitHub opensource developers do now? Many start to move their projects elsewhere as soon as possible.

That in itself speaks volumes to me.

Bye.

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colesdav
MVP

Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC

Hi,

RE: The only experience I have had with Linux has been using a Live DVD. But from what I have seen from other Users here at AMD Forum. It seems like you need to have some programming experience to run Linux.

In the case of Ubuntu 16.04/18.04 you can install software automatically using Software Center. I do not think you need any more 'programming experience' to run Ubuntu than you need for Windows.

What are these in Windows - I have to run this before and after every Windows Update.

chkdsk/scan

sfc /scannow.

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHeath. 

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHeath. 

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RepairHealth. 

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image AnalyseComponentStore 

... etc etc etc

They look like command line statements to me.

RE:  For instance, With Windows you have .EXE files to run by itself including installation by clicking on the file. But in Linux ,  it seems you have to run a command line to run any type of installation program.

No, wrong, you can install many Linux Live CD installations by clicking on an icon on your Live CD Desktop, for example, Ubuntu, Fedora, etc.

RE: Linux doesn't use .EXE files to run automatically by clicking on it.
You can launch Linux applications by clicking on an icon or file in a GUI.

RE: The Linux AMD driver extension is .TAR  and you need to run certain commands to run that program and install the driver.

The Linux AMD Drivers now come pre-installed on Ubuntu now.
I am pretty sure I can use a File Manager GUI to untar a file in Ubuntu if I want.
Yes you need to run a few commands in Ubuntu to remove existing and install new drivers, it is generally easy provided AMD install instructions are clear and correct (they have been wrong in the past for Centos installations).

That is more an AMD problem than an Ubuntu problem.

AMD need to provide an installer GUI.
As stated before, AMD needed to provide an AMDGPU/PRO GUI to monitor and control GPU's years ago, it is still missing.

At least I do not have to perform numerous reboots, DDU's in safe mode, disconnect from the internet etc etc and fight with Microsoft deliberately broken, convoluted gpedit settings etc etc.

Nvidia driver installation and upgrade is done via Ubuntu Software Install GUI, in a few clicks.

RE: Troubleshooting - I have not looked into that because with Ubuntu, I don't generally need to troubleshoot basic things like running software updates.
I cannot think of many cases where the Windows Troubleshooter has actually helped me, except perhaps, troubleshooting network connections.

RE: So, Windows is much more User friendly than Linux.  Most Users turn on the computer and Windows does the rest without forcing the User to have to input command coding to perform certain tasks.

I agree that Windows 10 "does the rest". Unfortunately it does it wrong far too often, and I spend too much time running troubleshooter, going on Windows Forums, I also have to to deal with bad tech support, whose only solution in the end seems to be  "install a clean copy of Windows 8.1/10" - which looses all of your program installations, and you need to do a full system backup.

In my view, and it seems in the view of some Microsoft Support people I talk to, Windows 10 is a mess.
In terms of privacy I consider Windows 10 a virus.

I guess we will agree to disagree, I am on Ubuntu/Linux for now, and I will put up with any problems I hit on it it rather than accept Microsoft Windows 10 as my day to day OS.

Bye.

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elstaci
MVP

Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC

RE:

What are these in Windows - I have to run this before and after every Windows Update.

chkdsk/scan

sfc /scannow.

DISM / Online / Cleanup-Image / CheckHeath.

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHeath.

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RepairHealth.

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image AnalyseComponentStore

... etc etc etc

They look like command line statements to me.

Most Users never have to run those command lines before and after a Windows Update unless they have a specific issue.  Since I been using Windows, I NEVER had to do what you do before or after a Windows Update. The only time I use those command line statements is if I feel my Windows OS is corrupted and couldn't be fixed by SFC /scannow. 

There are also 3rd party APP like SFCFix or Winfix that runs those command lines automatically without having to input them in Command Prompt or Powershell.

If you suspect that your Hard drive has errors there are 3rd party apps that does the same thing as chkdsk/scan.

I never said you don't have to run Command line statements in Windows. I said when you need to troubleshoot Windows, at times, you do need to run command line statements. But normally those situations are for those who are technically inclined and knows how to do it. Most Users call Tech Support or go to Tech Support websites to learn how to run those types of command line to troubleshoot a specific issue.

I agree that many people consider Linux to be a more stable OS than Windows. But then why isn't Linux becoming the dominant OS if Linux is so much superior to Windows. You would think that Laptop and PC Manufacturers would install Linux than have to pay millions of dollars to Microsoft to install Windows.

Maybe in the future when Linux becomes more popular it will start challenging Microsoft Windows. But until the computer manufacturers start coming out with Linux installed laptops and PC in mass amounts and they make a profit than Windows will have to change to meet the challenges that Linux has over Windows.

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colesdav
MVP

Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC

Hi,

If users are not running those DISM commands regularly they may be in for a big surprise when they do.
I run them because I code and test software and applications. So I need to know that at least Microsoft thinks it's own installation is o.k.

Even that is not a 100% certainty these days.

RE: But then why isn't Linux becoming the dominant OS if Linux is so much superior to Windows.

Linux is the dominant OS in all areas of Computing apart from Consumer Desktop. The reasons for this are historical.

Linux is pretty new (~ 1991) in comparison to Microsoft operating system (MSDOS) which goes all the way back to 1981.

MSDOS got there first to the Personal Computer and PC market. Took most of the early money in the boom days, and has stayed there.

I think there was (and still exists) a pretty bad "Linux Culture" where I saw/see  many people with the attitude:

"I had to work work hard to get this knowledge, therefore I am not going to make life easy for you".

I think this attitude is toxic and has held Linux back. I think it is now changing though. I can see it happening.
Many people realise that Linux needs to become a popular Desktop OS for consumers now, including Steam (Valve). 


RE: But until the computer manufacturers start coming out with Linux installed laptops and PC in mass amounts and they make a profit than Windows will have to change to meet the challenges that Linux has over Windows.

They already are available from many places. You can buy PC and Laptops with Ubuntu pre-installed today.
I can see a push for Ubuntu and Linux improving significantly in gaming before the end of Windows 7 support.
That is a good target to aim for. I think people need to step back, think, and make time to try out Ubuntu 16.04LTS or 18.04 LTS now.

AMD with their excellent Ryzen and Threadripper processors should be very interested in people running Ubuntu/Linux as their main OS.

With so many Cores available, and PCIe Passthrough support, Windows 10 can be "contained" to run within a Virtual Machine on Linux, and yet access AMD GPU Hardware for people who want to run DX12 games and get native gaming performance. To do that you do need two GPU's, which should also be of interest to AMD...  

 

Bye.

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colesdav
MVP

Re: Is MS Experimenting with Your PC

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