cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

General Discussions

AMD fires back at 'Super' NVIDIA with Radeon RX 5700 price cuts

MD unveiled its new Radeon RX 5700 line of graphics cards with 7nm chips at E3 last month, and with just days to go before they launch on July 7th, the company has announced new pricing. In the "spirit" of competition that it says is "heating up" in the graphics market -- specifically NVIDIA's "Super" new RTX cards -- all three versions of the graphics card will be cheaper than we thought.

The standard Radeon RX 5700 with 36 compute units and speeds of up to 1.7GHz was originally announced at $379, but will instead hit shelves at $349 -- the same price as NVIDIA's RTX 2060. The 5700 XT card that brings 40 compute units and up to 1.9GHz speed will be $50 cheaper than expected, launching at $399. The same goes for the 50th Anniversary with a slightly higher boost speed and stylish gold trim that will cost $449 instead of $499.

That's enough to keep them both cheaper than the $499 RTX 2070 Super -- we'll have to wait for the performance reviews to find out if it's enough to make sure they're still relevant.

AMD fires back at 'Super' NVIDIA with Radeon RX 5700 price cuts 

1,953 Replies

Another PowerColor Red Dragon RX5700XT review: 
PowerColor RX 5700 XT Red Devil, Super Cool But Not Super Expensive - YouTube 

0 Likes

There are always the exceptions to the rule. But a few games isn't the rule. My point is that is not the case or the norm quite yet. Yes it will all ultimately get there. The metro games and final fantasy games, just like the crysis games have always been great examples of games requiring hardware that just doesn't exist yet or needs the bleeding edge tech. Reality is you can still have a very good game experience on a sub to 300 dollar card at 1080 or even 1440p at 60 hz.

And thankfully so because everybody doesn't have the budget for a high dollar gaming rig.

0 Likes

no 4K benchmarks?

0 Likes

As much of an improvement as navi is, with current AAA games they are not aimed at 4k gamers. That is still Vega II territory and the upper end of the green team.

0 Likes

pokester wrote:

As much of an improvement as navi is, with current AAA games they are not aimed at 4k gamers. That is still Vega II territory and the upper end of the green team.

I have noticed that several recent AAA titles. Seems having a 4K UHD panel is still ahead of the curve.

Still I represent a growing segment of the market and ignoring me means I take my cash elsewhere.

0 Likes

I game at 1440p. I still think it is the better viable option. It doesn't cost a fortune to be able to do it, but is still way better than 1080p. I don't think the leap to 4k is really that noticeable until you are way over 32". I also don't like how small the desktop type is at 100% at 4k, 1440p is perfect for me and I don't have to use scaling which causes its own set of problems. Most gaming review sites are quick to point out you are way better at 1440p and high refresh rates than 4k and 60 mhz.

0 Likes

pokester wrote:

I game at 1440p. I still think it is the better viable option. It doesn't cost a fortune to be able to do it, but is still way better than 1080p. I don't think the leap to 4k is really that noticeable until you are way over 32". I also don't like how small the desktop type is at 100% at 4k, 1440p is perfect for me and I don't have to use scaling which causes its own set of problems. Most gaming review sites are quick to point out you are way better at 1440p and high refresh rates than 4k and 60 mhz.

My panel is 27" so its a higher DPI panel but it's surprisingly legible.I operate the panel with 100% scaling as many games do not recognize scaling properly,

LG 27UL500 is a very good panel and its great with television and movies with 100% sRGB support.

0 Likes

True, the problem is that with as many AAA title exceptions as there are currently, what is the market going to look like in 3 years? I'm more sensitive to this issue of course, having spent $500 on a Fury Nano in 2016 which quickly fell out of mainstream support and then fell behind the RX 580, meaning even 1920x1080 60fps gaming isn't a guarantee...And that's where the price issue becomes a point.

Yes and the unfortunate truth is that even at the mid level the last gen and current gen cards are twice the cost of what they had been for like 15 years. Then you add into that when we get new GPU s these days they aren't 2x as fast as last gen like they used to be. Mostly they are nominal 10 to 20% best and they jack up the price. So to me to by top end or even upper middle really isn't something I look to upgrade to as the technology advances. Now it is when it becomes necessity. I don't think AMD or Nvidia realize by jacking up the prices they are only making people wait much longer to upgrade. Then with more game developers as we already talked about releasing game engines that require hardware that doesn't exist yet, that makes no sense either.

so my ****** word there was a device you use to change a tire or a term for over inflating value. Not sure why this forum thinks that is a bad word?

0 Likes

You could always try overclocking the HBM... oh no, wait, what happened there...

I could tell you but ... better not.

Here is a Review of the Asus ROG Strix 5700XT.
https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/gpu_displays/asus_rog_strix_radeon_rx_5700_xt_review/1 
I will contact the reviewer and ask him to check if the thermal pads on the VRMs need fixing, as that was a problem on the Strix Vega 64.

0 Likes

hey I said "up" not the word for turn a light off. Heaven help you if it were you name, not allowed. To funny! LOL

0 Likes

Hey I was playing around with Reshade last night. Pretty cool what it does for an old game.

0 Likes

Cool - did you try out CAS.fx Contast Adaptive Sharpening  (aka Radeon Image Sharpening) or Contrast Aware Sharpening (Smart_Sharp.fx)? 
How about Software based Ray Tracing?

0 Likes

The bad thing with this triple cooler card is the length. It is so long. Many looking for that mid level card won't have the larger gaming cases to use it. This to me is where it would be better if need be to tack on 10 bucks, use more copper and keep it a 2 fans. Also another card sticking up above the riser too much IMHO. Still nice to see good cooling options for these cards, just gotta get the drivers and chip set 4.0 drivers up to speed.

0 Likes

AMD has to pay Lisa Su's multi-million dollar bonuses somehow.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-su-papermaster-bonuses,40163.html

If any of them really cared what was best for AMD they would invest that money in Software Engineers to figure out all their driver related problems. Their hardware is not what keeps them from real dominance but drivers have long plagued them. Undeservedly so for years, but the last couple they deserve that legacy opinion of ATi days and more. The stability issues and non working features really are not acceptable and I know it is eroding their loyal base quickly. These navi cards really are awesome tech. Had the had ray tracing, better cooling and stable drivers they would dominating right now above even what Ryzen has. Even on the Ryzen side it is evident that PICE 4 is not ready for prime time either and again software is the likely issue. Their new GPU and MB Chipset should work together but from all the complaints here and other forums users have to force PCIE 3  to be stable. 

AMD needs to focus now on software in my opinion and get it right quick. A real support presence in their forums like what Nvidia does with theirs would help a ton too giving users faith in the products. 

When I see info like the above I really question our wisdom of bothering to come on here and support AMD users for free.

0 Likes

I think AMD stuck with Raja for far longer than he was relevant. The last few years AMD has been backsliding. From 2012-2014 AMD basically rebadged and tweaked the same GPU base without innovation (Raja rejoined AMD in 2013), Fury was great at first then AMD stopped caring about it and its performance slid, the RX 400 series launched in 2016 and it took AMD 3 years to get Navi on the shelves all the while they just rebadged and pushed out a clearly unfinished, badly designed Vega product which was, and still is, way too expensive and power hungry compared to the competition. Aggressive pricing, especially in the midrange, kept AMD's name around, and the only thing keeping their name around now is that nVidia has not responded with price cuts to the slightly faster 2070 and 2060 Super, which I doubt they will because nVidia doesn't do that.

Because of all that AMD is in such a development hole compared to nVidia, combined with the fact that, like you said, the drivers seem to cause more issues than they solve, not to mention their size is bloated again, over 400mb in size. Granted it's smaller than nVidia's 541MB, there's still no reason it should be that large.

0 Likes

Maybe that's why Matt and Ray are rare around here these days.

My R5 2400G does not work on my X570 board, I am now officially annoyed

0 Likes

The CPU support list for that motherboard clearly does not list the Ryzen 2400G, so it should be no surprise that it does not work.

0 Likes

There is no doubt that something is up there. Ray pretty much has disappeared and he used to help a lot. Matt too has been very much gone for about 6 months now. So either they are so busy they don't have time, or they are instructed to be silent or it is just the old if you can't say anything nice say nothing at all. 

We know from financial reports that before Ryzen, the success of Ryzen was pretty much a do or die situation for AMD. I have wondered for a while now that a lot of the issues are that it was so bad that they are running with such a skeleton crew that they truly just can't do better. It's why all resources got poured into the cpu side as they just didn't have the talent for both at once. 

Now the situation with Raj may not even be what we might think. Who know how much his hands were tied and what frustration level he had to work with, or if indeed he was a chunk of the problem? The litmus test on that to me will be the success or failure of the upcoming Intel GPU, that will be the measure of his talent as you know Intel is giving him the money needed to do it right, if he can do it right. 

The sad part to begin with is that everything is speculation, even among what has been AMD's fans, is that AMD doesn't really communicate with their base and doesn't seem to really care what they think. As much as some may feel that the green team is bad, they sure as heck do listen and respond to their users. That is very evident in their presence in their forum. Heck yes they offer lesser in some ways for higher prices, but in that way the still aren't anywhere near as bad as the worst example of that Apple. I have to say though with my experience again with the green products is that it is worth the premium to have nearly trouble free experience and to have real support that talks to you if you do have issues. 

I don't help here to help AMD, I am here to help their users I feel sorry for that deserve better. Luckily being an IT pro I can help a little bit better than some like you guys that seem to know more than even me. I was honestly just so sad with my RX 580 experience after so many great years of products and dismayed that the only help I got resolving the issue on any level did not come from AMD but Kingfish. I just initially wanted to pay back the help if I could but quickly realized the underlying issues of AMD's negligence in fixing or even acknowledging the problems. The fact that the best support to AMD's users comes from free help from the user base is just a very sad state of affairs. It is really getting to the point you feel like the enabler that keeps letting an addict get their fix. 

The best way for AMD to right their ship is to acknowledge the issues, pledge to do that and fix them and then hire the talent to get it done. Not pay bonuses to people incapable of doing none of this that likely only care to line their own pockets. My guess is that regardless of the employee talent whether it is the CEO who I truly believe she is genius level to their other staff, my guess is they are controlled by a really bad board. This company need a super rich Warren Buffet type to buy the darn company and fix the situation. So in absence of not doing any of this those that can are getting their golden parachutes like have been seen in so many other corporations before things go crazy south. 

I do hope none of this is the case and that they really will turn it around in short order. But whats going on sure doesn't make you feel warm and fuzzy. One things for sure is Intel would love to buy the IP of AMD out of bankruptcy court at a bargain price. 

0 Likes

I have seen published claims about backwards compatibility so I am very annoyed

0 Likes

I can certainly understand the confusion with all the arbitrary claims of compatibly within the socket series since the beginning. Your best bet really is to contact MSI support assuming this is the same board you talked about before. If they can't resolve the issue or have no plans to then you have to decide if you just wan't to get another CPU or maybe return the board and go another route altogether. 

0 Likes

pokester wrote:

I can certainly understand the confusion with all the arbitrary claims of compatibly within the socket series since the beginning. Your best bet really is to contact MSI support assuming this is the same board you talked about before. If they can't resolve the issue or have no plans to then you have to decide if you just wan't to get another CPU or maybe return the board and go another route altogether. 

consumer laws are very clear, misleading advertising is an offence

0 Likes

I don't disagree but unless you are independently wealthy enough to fight a lengthy legal battle that you likely never win, what can you do? The old saying "you can't fight city hall" exists for good reason. You can take some satisfaction in knowing that what you can do is vote with your dollars and do your best to make a better decision next time. Heck the shear amount of complaints here in these forums are why my current top 3 graphics cards are green and my 2 newest desktops are blue. I really, really wanted to go Ryzen and even was ready to go Ryzen 3 if it had a good launch. But they are not stable either likely do to software alone. I don't think it's the hardware but firmware and drivers. Again I had nothing but AMD systems for nearly 20 years before that but I learn my lessons pretty quick as I don't have the disposable income to spend my dollars poorly. I can honestly say I have had absolutely zero issues with my MSI motherboard with the i7, sure Intel stagnated the market holding back progression for greedy profits, but darn if their stuff doesn't work right aside from the security flaws. Yah that is huge but at least the it works as it is supposed to. 

0 Likes

I would prosecure, far more devastating when I seek extradition of Lisa Su for violation of law, would be hard to stop my extradition 

0 Likes

Ram compatibility on Ryzen 2700X took 2 months to partially resolve for me.
The PC wa pretty much out of action for much of that time. 
It cost me loss of productivity and lots of time to resolve. . 
It is still not fixed properly in the BIOS for my motherboard last time I checked, I do need to chase that up though. 
I still cannot get satisfactory Ram Test pass coverage in Windows 10 if I run the RAM at 3200MHz.
The PC does pass MemTest86 pre-windows boot but that is just a starting gate before you get into windows where the additional noise from GPU etc can be tested.  

I just completed a new Ryzen 5 3600 build.
It uses much less RAM (2*8GB instead of 4*16GB).
It passes both MemTest86 and Karhu Ram Test. 
So maybe something has improved there.
The way to find out would be to swap the RAM kits between machines but really I am sick of the whole thing as you may imagine. 

0 Likes

It wasn't so long ago that there were rumors that Dell was going to buy AMD. One thing's for sure though, Bergman is going to have to get RTG in order. Lisa Su's been at the helm of it since Raja got the boot, and with only 25% of their resources allocated to the consumer and professional market they have managed to extract a rather large amount, so I think the talent is there, they're just not able to experiment and fab samples like they want to, and that leads to cataclysmic consequences, such as the Vega packaging fiasco. Since the success of Ryzen has brought AMD cash they haven't seen in the better part of a decade, and with the processor division pretty well set for the next couple of years at least, and with Bergman coming back into the picture, I can imagine RTG is going to get a large infusion of resources. The problem though is that while they may get the resources, it's going to be at least two more years before anything they develop makes it to market since we know Navi derived high end cards will be released next year, no doubt with astronomical prices since they are reported to be HBM2E based and not GDDR6X, and by then they will be competing against Intel who wants to seize market share, and not just nVidia who both has the market cornered as well as is content to keep prices high...

I dunno, it's going to be a rougher next couple of years for AMD than they want to admit, especially with the tech sites fawning over them for their Ryzen achievements (no matter how well deserved), they have to remember to keep the momentum going, but AMD has a really bad history of blasting onto the scene only to fizzle out a short time later.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/16/dell_amd_acquisition_chatter/

Yes even with how much better Navi is, I for one don't really consider it to be a new architecture. It really is just a redistribution of the same architecture that puts more focus on what helps gaming than compute. Just speeding the cycle. So building a future on a dwindling architecture is not a future for the graphics division. Most of the improvement comes from those compute changes and the die shrink not a real change that allows growth that comes from a real new architecture. Certainly also no improvement in the software side of things. A little over a year ago Lisa all but said that pc gaming isn't their focus and they prove that every day. They love supply the chips for consoles and embedded systems and data centers all things that frankly someone else is taking care of the software side of things. I know they have talent in the company, you don't have what they do have without that, but they sure could use a lot more to get their firmware and drivers right so that when people buy their CPUs and GPUs they actually work at default settings like they are supposed to. It seems to me at this point you can make a pretty good argument that more of the product line does not work at defaults, and requires tweaking, workarounds, or outright disabling of certain features to even be able to use the products in a stable way. That is not a good user experience and why anyone who has this happen to them would subject themselves to that torture again without proof that those problems are in the past is beyond my comprehension. 

0 Likes

I know that for the new series of boards the Chipset was brought back in house to stabilize things so I hope that helps. But there are plenty of claims out there still of memory issues. Even in the last gen when you got 2 sticks working fine you could ad 2 more of the same and it would not. So you are right on the money with the frustration of not being able to use your machine for weeks or months waiting for solutions. Who could do that? 

0 Likes

Well right now it's still hard to fault AMD for their focus on the enterprise market. Consoles sell in the millions, but the profit margin is low. PC graphics cards sell in the tens to hundreds of thousands, and the profit margin varies from slim on the entry and midrange to decent on the high end, but the high end is low volume, and is a comparatively shrinking market as consoles become even more powerful and have become people's central entertainment hub, not just a gaming device, connecting them to Netflix, Hulu, and other such services. The enterprise market, however, is where the money is as the market is expanding as AI and deep learning expand.

It is easy to fault AMD, however, for not placing the same emphasis on GPUs as CPUs especially since Ryzen took off since consumer and enterprise GPUs share the same silicon, plus with Intel about to enter the discrete market, their iGPUs will no doubt increase greatly in power as well, usurping AMD's essential market in that area as well.

nVidia is taking a hit too, no doubt it was a situation of a commanding market share, a high number of GTX 1000 series GPUs making up that market share, and the fact the RTX 2000 series is not -that- much faster than the GTX 1000 series cards they replaced, 10-30% is not that great when you consider that the new cards cost so much.  AMD's performance jump from the 580 to 5700XT is triple what nVidia's jump from the 1070 to 2070 is, but as we've discussed before the price is just way too high for what they want, especially when the vast majority of the market games at 1920x1080, not 2560x1440.

I am not faulting them for concentrating on the revenue stream that keeps them afloat. There are just a lot of folks that are under the disillusionment that they are are doing their best to cater to PC Gamers still. I just hope they will be able to actually return to doing that and fix much of what is wrong but right now it certainly and obviously is not the case. Customers do deserve to get what they pay for. Missteps of one generation of products may be rightfully forgivable, but its going on several now. 

When it comes to the profitability of these products today I call that a product of the Walmart mentality that crippled manufacturing with price controls and taught consumers to demand low profit margins instead of supporting the companies ability to sustain themselves. There is no doubt it has never been cheaper in general than it is today to posses awesome technology. I payed way more for computers in the early days than what we do now. I have no doubt this very much handcuffs the ability of a company like AMD to compete. Then never had the resources in their possession like Intel has to sustain the price wars. 

I am tickled that AMD is even around still. Without them technology would not be where it is. It is competition that makes things move forward. Intel would still be pushing 4 core processors as the high end without AMD proving the market had to move forward. We owe a lot technology and frankly standards wise especially those standards that are truly OPEN standards to AMD. On that level they are the better moral company. They however have turned a blind eye and closed ears to listening to their base this last couple years. They are not addressing issues and upon repeated attempts to talk with them they don't really answer anyone. This is echoed in the opinions of tech sites, forums elsewhere, users here that file support tickets that say they never get responses and reviews across the internet, who I have see they question AMD with no response. It is also my personal experience when trying to correspond with anyone from AMD about these issues from the mods in these forums to Reddit and even several letters written to the CEO herself, pure silence no response or even acknowledgement of receipt of the communication. 

0 Likes

No doubt customers are not stupid. They are not going to flock to replace cards with new ones that are only incrementally faster. RTX should have been a value added addition to the product line. Not the driving force behind the reason to upgrade, especially when the demand for the feature would be at best a few years down the line. It is great they could add it but they should have made a larger performance improvement with the release. These graphics card prices are just too much, they act like the mining boom is still on. I would bet that the high failure rate Nvidia has had with the 2070 and above has not helped the sales. The reviews on sites like Amazon and Newegg are riddled with people complaining of those cards failing in just months. It seems that AMD and Nvidia have opposite problems. Nvidia has more hardware problems not software. Kind of the opposite for AMD. I think both companies honestly have been expected to produce too much too fast when it comes to ability. 4K is requires so much power to render at. In many ways when you look at where things were just 5 years ago, with all the short comings it is pretty amazing where we are now but now that surprising that a lot of issues because of it exist. 

0 Likes

Another PowerColor RX5700XT GPU:
RADEON RX 5700 XT DUAL FAN 8GB GDDR6 PCI-EXPRESS GRAPHICS CARD

It is a slightly slower version of the Red Dragon. Basic Dual fan for ~ 400.

AXRX 5700XT 8GBD6-3DH,
Core Clock:
1605MHz,
Boost Clock:
1905MHz

AXRX 5700XT
8GBD6-3DR/OC, Core Clock:
1650MHz, Boost Clock: 1905MHz, 

0 Likes