This guide is meant to explore and expand discussion into what causes Input Lag(going to be regarded as IL) and mouse movement. If you do not see a point in reducing as much input lag as possible, that is fine, but this is for people who enjoy the feeling of high responsive gameplay/desktop environments such as back during XP or windows 7 days or at least make the mouse feel that way again.
I will be going over why I do this and which tweaks I feel help. They will be separated into Best, Other, GPU, and Tin Foil. Best are just the best, Other are ones that I do not deem too necessary, GPU are just AMD GPU settings, and Tin Foil are ones I feel is too difficult to determine whether if it's placebo or not. Please keep in mind, almost all of these tweaks have a link associated with the tweak/line. Also keep in mind that this is ongoing research, there is very little to no research at all on this topic besides several youtubers and forums and everything is always subject to change. This guide is meant to bring all the best tweaks together and test them out so feedback is much appreciated.
[There's tons of links riddled all over this guide. Make sure to hover over text to see if they have a link.]
I have lived with input lag on my Ryzen build for 2 years but had IL(Input Lag) for 4 years due to windows 10. I had no clue why I had so much IL in all of my games and desktop compared to my previous FX and Athlon builds and after 2 years of research I have found some tweaks that can help. <Note> I am using the same setup: mouse, 144hz monitor, room, outlet as my previous setups so I can feel the performance differences. https://community.amd.com/message/2932134
There may be other Polaris GPUs that also have IL(Input Lag) but me and some other people have all confirmed there is IL in the 580 and not just from one brand either(Mine was XFX RX 580 8GB XXX Black Edition):
b. https://www.reddit.com/r/AMDHelp/comments/9wqxx3/high_input_lag_after_upgrading_to_rx580/
c. https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/input-lag-after-i-upgraded-to-an-rx-580.3460461/
I do not know if reference versions make a difference as I have not tested them. I hear 3rd party GPUs can sometimes introduce IL through bios and software changes, and that the reference R9 290s are king tier when it comes to IL.
But do not worry, I believe Ryzen can have much less IL than Intel, especially now due to all of those vulnerability patches from Windows Updates. Intel are taking 15-20% performance hits and even have hyper threading disabled on older systems which is why so many people are switching to AMD right now! YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN258Q2Y-T8
Obviously I do not have access to a 1000fps camera like Tech Yes City or Battle Nonsense but I can feel IL differences along with others and it matches people's research to who do have 1000fps cameras. This led me on the long journey to find all the best tweaks possible to get back my mojo. Now this entire Abstract was focused on hardware input lag, which is an entirely different beast in itself, but now it's time to talk about all the things you can do software wise.
EDIT: Windows 10 feels more sluggish since 1809 because they've permanently set QueryPerformanceFrequency to 10mhz instead of the smaller one we've had before. This is due to Intel's spectre and meltdown vulnerabilities. {Dammit again Intel ruining it for all of us.} https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/queryperformancefrequency-qpc-is-10-mhz-since/...
A great input lag reduction came from upgrading to the new Windows 10 1903 or 1909. I used windows 7, Regular Windows 10 1500s-1776 windows LTSB 2016, windows 10 LTSC 2019 all of them had the same lag. No matter how much I reinstalled it doesn't change the amount of input lag on my Ryzen(s). Using the new 1903 scheduler reduced my input lag by a noticeable amount. Even with English keyboard language input lag bug it still felt great. That 20% scheduling performance increase from windows 1903 claim does hold water. I have not tried 1909 but I'm sure it'll be even better.
As I recall, most of the IL for games came from around October 2016 when Windows 10 changed the way their dwm.exe worked. You have to disable full screen optimization in order to have normal performance in applications now, and it affects both alt tabbed and fullscreen applications. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/7drusz/psa_make_sure_to_disable_fullscreen_optimization...
Can confirm, that by resetting all the BIOS settings to Load Optimal Defaults, I have felt
the system is more sluggish and has more stutters. Will test this out on my Ryzen build later.
The only way I was able to install Windows 8 with CSM off was to use a customized pirated CD
ISO {made by Generation 2} on my CD drive connected through SATA. But it wasn't installed in legacy mode it was defaulted to UEFI! Will try true Legacy mode install next time.
Windows 10 QueryPerformanceFrequency and timer resolutions. Youtuber FR33THY made a video about how it's better to have HPET on in BIOS and off in OS to keep a ...
Timecard sent me this. Whoever wants to contribute, please provide feedback.
Dwm "usually" doesn't enforce vsync, or use any resources when you run a game in full screen exclusive mode, if you aren't sure if your game is impacted use gpuview to confirm. Lots of great examples on diagnosing real world scenarios and game delays in the link below. Happy hunting.
Can my fellow gamers out there with Win 8.1 test out "Disable display scaling on high DPI settings" on the compatibility tab of your game's exe?
bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock
bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes
Edit: Turning off APM master mode feels terrible and introduces stuttering(AM3+ Boards).
Your monitor settings. Just test out different settings: gaming modes, natural modes. I know for my BenQ monitor has this feature called AMA settings that changes performance significantly by changing the ms response time. Make sure to google your monitor optimizations too, there's loads of things you can discover. https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ax4838/attention_display_port_users_i_might_have_a/
Your monitor cable. DP Users can sometimes fix their stuttering, blacking out, or input lag problems with this method.
Process Lasso will help especially for Ryzen CCX performance. Just installing it and leaving it on at default(open at startup) is just fine, you will notice that your system is snappier just by having it on. There are however other things you can do such as Disabling SMT or managing Affinity for certain Applications. For Process Lasso on Ryzen I set my game to the primary cores(Disable SMT). And on other apps I set them on secondary cores(odds). So it would look like this on a 1600: Game 0,2,4,6,8,10 and other apps like chrome would be 1,3,5,7,9,11. Not only did this improve scheduling and responsiveness on older windows versions by 50% but increased FPS by around 40~ as well. However you have to remember FPS does not mean everything. https://www.reddit.com/r/BattleRite/comments/97vv24/serious_performance_boost_on_ryzen_with_project/
https://www.reddit.com/r/BattleRite/comments/97vv24/serious_performance_boost_on_ryzen_with_project/Go into Internet Explorer settings and turn off Smooth Scrolling. It affects your mouse movement for some reason. Maybe Use software rendering instead of GPU rendering too.
Disabling CCX with process lasso may also decrease IL. I have not yet found all the CCX disabling me... Here are some CCX methods for Ryzen 3000 series.
Cores on ryzen 3k are numbered by their physical cores, with their smt pairs coming after that so core 0,8 1,9 2,10, etc. should be all the same cores ht pair on a 3700/3800x on a 3600 its 0,6 1,7, 2,8 etc. on a 3900x its 0,12, 1,13, etc. - this all is important from what i know, depending if you have 3-core ccxs (6 and 12 core parts) or 4-core ccxs (8 and 16 core parts), itll be just the 3 consecutive cores 0,1,2 3,4,5, etc. or 0,1,2,3 4,5,6,7 respectively so say you want to bind it to 1 ccx on a 3700x, youd set the affinity to core 4,5,6,7,12,13,14,15 for a 3600 itd be 3,4,5,9,10,11 for a 3900x itd be 3,4,5,15,16,17 and for a 3950x itd be 4,5,6,7,20,21,22,23 ccx structure on a 3600: (0,1,2,6,7,8),(3,4,5,9,10,11) ccx structure on a 3700x: (0,1,2,3,8,9,10,11)(4,5,6,7,12,13,14,15) ccx structure on a 3900x: (0,1,2,12,13,14),(3,4,5,15,16,17),(6,7,8,18,19,20),(9,10,11,21,22,23) ccx structure on a 3950x: (0,1,2,3,16,17,18,19),(4,5,6,7,20,21,22,23),(8,9,10,11,24,25,26,27),(12,13,14,15,28,29,
Your application settings: Disable Fullscreen Optimization on win 10 or aero for win7.
Language Setting IL Bug: I had to change keyboard language from English(US) to English(Philippines). I assume it has something to do with their spy/bloatware. I was even using Win 10 LTSC 2019 1809. Then again I felt the same lag on my dual boot win7. Can confirm the input lag is on English Canada as well. So the best I tried is English Philippines.
- Turns out it might not be random. Another user apparently feels it too on US. He changed to his to U... However I'm not sure he is still using US Keyboard. I use US keyboard with Eng Philippines.
Set CSM to Legacy or Disable it in BIOS. For me, it felt great on my x370 prime-pro with just legacy... If one doesn't feel good, try the other. For me just legacy mode feels better than CSM off. It was really hard to install Windows CSM off without a CD Drive and when I do, it just installs as UEFI. UEFI = BAD 😠
Have Chill or Anti-Lag as the only things to have on(depending on what game you play.) Some games require uncapped fps with anti-lag on or some games work better with chill only so it's up to you to test them out for yourself. Examples Overwatch: Chill on, everything off. Paladins: Anti-Lag on, uncap FPS.(different for every computer and OS set up)
- Before chill and anti-lag existed my r9 270x and r7 370 both performed very well no input lag at all but switching over to rx 580 I felt some strange lag. Chill or AntiLag for RX 580 is really amazing. Night and day differences.
HDMI has less input lag than DP, and of course VGA has the least lag.
Whenever someone is suggesting a change to \Games they always say: "In the same Registry hive as the above tweak, you can also change the priority of Games. To implement this tweak, go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Multimedia\SystemProfile\Tasks\Games and change the following registry values:
The utility was updated recently and now you can add priorities towards each device as well, however I just don't know which settings are the most beneficial yet, just don't change the MSI mode of your OS drive. Before you use MSI Utility, you have to make a system restore checkpoint first. This is due to if you change the mode of your Sata or hard drive devices to MSI mode your OS will not boot anymore. If system restore doesn't work, this video helps to restore your registry but you can also just make...
I usually rank at least diamond or masters in all the games I played: Overwatch, League of Legends, SFV but for the past 2 years I couldn't really play any of them competitively because of some over arching lag in my system. I mean I Could play them but it's just disgusting to play with higher input lag and hurts my soul. First 3 hours after tweaking and switching hardware around I finally moved on from diamond to masters in Overwatch and the difference is immediately noticeable if I switch back. Flipping through options I can definitely tell the difference. It might just be better frame delivery or better consistency but whatever It is, it makes my system more responsive in desktop or games. There is however still more testing to be done.
Bonus Content
Quote: Originally Posted by r0ach
There is no fix. Windows XP was a hardware accelerated desktop, then Win 7 wasn't, then Win 8.1 was again. This is why desktop cursor movement vs exclusive full-screen 3d mode feels the same in Windows 8.1 but not Windows 7. What's bizarre is Nvidia doesn't support Windows 8.1 on 2060-2080 series but does on 1600 series. I refuse to use Windows 10 New World Order edition myself. It's Microsoft attempting to transition to a fully locked down, Apple-style OS, and I would use it solely as a game box and nothing else due to that, but cursor movement is worse than Win 8.1, so I have no use for it at all.
Reply: By RamenRider
Windows 10 pre October 2016 was actually great for input lag and gaming, kinda like 7 and 8.1. Before they forced in the Windows Optimization feature. They did something so horrible that de-synchronized the desktop mouse movement and in game mouse movement forever. Before I remember changing the display scaling, such as 100% magnification to 125%, and it would affect the mouse movement or dpi in game. It was amazing, it was almost like cheating as if the magnification increased the hitboxes; or just adjusted the dpi resolution to make it easier to move/accelerate. Worked for Windows 7 and 8 as well. Whatever it was, it was a slice of heaven.
This would mean I need to also test out Windows 8.1 for gaming performance.
Back to talking about the input lag defenders.
Look how they even attack and downvote this guy asking the same questions!
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/egdiw9/is_it_true_that_ryzen_has_more_latencyinput_lag/
This poor guy is just asking a question and everyone is berating and downvoting him for no reason? You don't see anything wrong with this? Maybe it's not me or anyone else curious that's in the wrong. Turns out all of those naysayers were proven wrong in that thread when Tech Yes released his video a few month later! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsbVSknUK7I
Final Notes
I have tested GTX 970 with my Ryzen but the difference is nonexistant. The Windows 10 1903 upgrade was much more significant. I did try out default AMD GPU drivers that did not include chill and anti-lag but there is no noticeable difference; same rules apply, as turning off enhanced sync feels better, but the only real major changes are at the hardware level. Switching to R9 270 made the biggest difference because in performance, because the RX 580 IL is at a hardware/bios level that even affects people with Intel. https://community.amd.com/thread/235028. I also would love to test out Ryzen 2 differences as well, but I do not have much time or money anymore as I am back in school. Hope this helps though.
Just tested my FX build with Lhun and r0ach guides and it feels amazing. However parts of their guides conflict and everyone's motherboard is different, so I have to find my own path. Unfortunately Latest Adrenaline 2020 drivers do not work with 8.1 but it feels good even if I am using only 17.x drivers(maybe due to no AMD overlay?) Make sure to test out CSM Legacy, Disable Fullscreen Optimization, Disabling HPET, Lhun's guide, Windows 8.1 ect.