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Drivers & Software

bobcamo
Adept II

3rd party startup service may prevents Windows from loading properly

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Edit: the link below is to another post that is related to this which is the first one i posted on before making this one.
18.4.1 broke my windows

Hi, i already posted a comment to a related-ish post but figured i'd make a separate one as i have this problem and to be more specific of my build and such. also this way anyone having similar problems as i am can also jump in and hopefully this gets seen and fixed.

Build:
GPU: MSI R9 390 8GB Gaming Edition
CPU: AMD FX-8350

Ram: G.SKILL Sniper Gaming Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900)

MoBo:  ASUS ROG Crosshair V Formula-Z AM3+ AMD 990FX + SB950

PSU: LEPA G1200-MA 1200W

SSD: Mushkin Enhanced Striker 2.5" 480GB


Anyways, since the i updated to windows 1803 i have had my PC get stuck on boot up in an infinite loading screen just before the windows log in screen. so far everything I've tried and found to make it work right has not worked. now, i do want people to know this til this is fixed, be cautious updating windows to the spring update... i'm unable to revert back to the previous build of windows. so i did manage to figure some things out or my pc wouldn't be usable right now. if you don't plan on playing or using graphical things, you can just uninstall the driver or uninstall then use windows update to find their driver which... kinda doesn't work well... but other wise the only thing i've been able to do is get into safe mode which works perfectly fine with or without the drivers. but i will have a copied and pasted comment i made from the last post that i finally figured out to work for me.

"Well, for anyone getting the same thing i am. only thing I've figured out that's been able to work is after installing the newest driver. then go into device manager(Fast way: Windows Key+X then M), go to "Display Adapters" click the drop down arrow on the left. right-click on your GPU(Mine shows as "AMD Radeon (TM) R9 390 Series"), Disable Device. then your able to restart normally and such. this can also be done in safe mode to get back to windows normally then once in windows just re-enable it and everything should run fine. but do not restart or turn off your PC before disabling it again other wise you'll have to enter safe mode again to do this. hopefully this helps anyone who needs it til what ever is going on is fixed."

Message was edited by: BOBCAMO CAMO

Edit:
changing the name of the title as so far it doesn't seem to be a AMD specific issue, for some it may be. but for my end it was a guess til testing and trial and error started. lots of searching and such indicates it's mainly the version of the OS build... if you read replies and such below this post, you'll see why.

OP Name: Windows 10 Spring Update 1803 and AMD drivers not working. unable to load windows.

Message was edited by: BOBCAMO CAMO

Message was edited by: Matt B

We have updated the title of this discussion with relevant details to better describe your issue.

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bobcamo
Adept II

Re: Windows 10 Spring Update 1803 and AMD drivers not working. unable to load windows.

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HOLY CRAP!!! think i figured it out... finally found a decent thing for my end which so far has fixed the black screen before login completely...
First. i'd like to say... WOW is there so much blame on GPU driver's in general when none of that worked even before i searched it up... granted i didn't help on that till testing more.
Second, Guess which service it was... "Advanced SystemCare Service 11"
ok, this may not work for everyone but so far the same things i used to CAUSE the black screen of death(yes that's what this is called apparently. BSOD either way...) have not caused it since i have done this.
Here is the link to which i found and followed.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-ph/help/929135/how-to-perform-a-clean-boot-in-windows

Scroll down til you see a section in big bold lettering named "How to determine what is causing the problem after you do a clean boot", under that click on the drop down menu which looks like a link named "Windows 10, Windows 8.1, Windows 8" that's the steps i fallowed. read the steps there then go ahead and read my tips below.
now for a faster determination if it even IS a Service causing it, once on step 5 click the button that says "Disable all", then Apply, then OK, if your able to cause the black screen, do that before hitting the restart button on the small window that shows up after hitting OK and do not check the box either on that same window. if it windows starts up fine with no black screen, then it's a non-windows process then continue on from step 5. if not, continue on to the windows process part, if neither then it's not a process and something else is causing it.
if it's not the above, many have constantly opted to reference to reverting windows back and blocking the update. other's there is many fixes and so on that randomly has helped. here is what i typed into google( windows 10 1803 black screen boot problems  ) to find all the things I've tried and tested and no differences for my end. pretty much a few of the links shown may lead to other forums with more link in them, which... may have to be done... yes... i have been at this since 10pm last night and finally got done now at... 6:20am and was working on it a few hours before 10 but wasn't paying attention to time... lol. think i started from my last post about the windows update not installing right. just giving an idea of what to expect if nothing in this thread helps... but still trying to make it less on everyone the best i can.

Well. hopefully this does help anyone. i will keep an eye on this post the best i can.

Edit:
keep in mind i have a feeling the process fix may change with each update of windows or even program update or additional program installed. overall, this again is an update probably best waited on for apparently at least 3-6 more months of it being out of what many have said...

Yeah... after that windows update that i was unable to update too before(couple post's ago) i started getting the black screen again the same way. sadly... i may only have like 3 services or so that are in there that i can actually disable. the rest... i have to have enabled other wise the program wont even run after windows is booted. so i'm just disabling all non windows services, do my cleanings, restart, then once back into windows, re-enable them all again, then restart and so far this has been working for me. which may indicate the service might be able to be fixed one of two ways I've noticed which may not make a difference on the black screen appearance. some programs if you try to run after disabling it's service and restarting may ask to re-install the service. other way is to re-install the program. neither of these may work. but there is a chance which is why i'm mentioning it.

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binay_dear
Journeyman III

Re: Windows 10 Spring Update 1803 and AMD drivers not working. unable to load windows.

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Build:

GPU: Sapphire R9 280X DUAL-X

CPU: Intel Core i5 4460

RAM: Hyper-X 16GB DDR3

MB: Gigabyte B85M-D3H

PSU: Seasonic 620W

HDD: WD BLUE 1TB+1TB

I have exactly the same issue. I updated my windows to 1803 via windows update. Everything went normal as it should but after the installation completed I used my pc for some work. Did some gaming and faced lil bit performance drop on ac:origins using 18.3.4 driver. Then I tried to install 18.4.1. So, rebooted to safe mode and used DDU. A difference i noticed here is that DDU used to take make 5mins to clean everything and restart on previous windows builds but here it took more than 10mins just to 'Cleaning Directory' step. After that I installed 18.4.1. Next day I turned on my pc having Sapphire R9 280X DUAL-X, it was stuck on infinite loading screen. Typically - black screen with spinning circle just before login screen appears. I rolled back to 1709. Tested 18.4.1 on this build and everything is absolutely fine and no performance drop also. If u do find a permanent fix for this like any update from AMD's or MS's side, kindly do inform. As of now, I will be using 1709 build unless this is fixed. And ya, after booting to safe mode and then again rebooting to normal mode used to do the trick. But as soon as u reboot/turn on/off ur pc the same bootloop occurred.

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bobcamo
Adept II

Re: Windows 10 Spring Update 1803 and AMD drivers not working. unable to load windows.

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yeah, unfortunately i can't roll back the Windows build. my only choice is to reformat, re-install windows and try to block the 1803 update if i even can on a fresh install... which i kinda doubt i can due to how it normally works after i do fresh installs. and yes i tend to do full fresh installs monthly to bi-monthly lol, unless i feel lazy and windows doesn't act up as fast then may last up to 3-4 months.
but yes that's the only thing I've figured out because of remembering same things back on windows 98 and xp that i've had to do that. everything I've found has not done anything for my end. and yes, your description of the infinite loading is exact to what i was talking about. if you have 2 monitors on and have everything normal, then it only shows on one screen then the other acts dead. if you disable the device then both screens do it. but yes, it's like every other boot no matter what you have to enter safe mode. i'll disable device, restart, then infinite loading screen, reboot 2 more times to go into safemode then i just restart as soon as the desktop loads and it loads in fine.
and yes i'll try to make sure if i find something or an update works i'll post in here. but for now... nothing... and i don't think there will be til either MS or AMD to make an update regarding this and it has been mentioned on MS sites already just not exact to this problem for majority of it. and it does affect my end on performance due to the way i'm having to disable the device and such too... able to play games, but some things are buggy and i can't use nothing to do with the radeon settings because it's not started or on at boot.
Also, thanks for posting on this too. glad i wasn't the only one with the exact same problem.

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bobcamo
Adept II

Re: Windows 10 Spring Update 1803 and AMD drivers not working. unable to load windows.

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well, think i just figured it out. read a post about drivers for the monitors them selves being messed up because of this windows update. so far restarted about 5 times in a row with everything normal and has been working fine. not entirely sure which monitor was causing it. but when in safe mode, only one of my monitors shows up in device manager. which was the one connected through Display port, not my HDMI one. but, i uninstalled the one showing. restarted and it started right up with no problems. once in windows normally, i uninstalled both again and restarted for good measure. both show up as a generic monitor, but haven't had any problems. hopefully this is the fix for anyone else getting this. will keep posted to anything new related.
so far, this windows update seems to be better done as a fresh install from all the hardware driver problems... granted unsure if there is an ISO from them that already includes the all the updates including this one.

Edit: wasn't a post about monitors, was display driver post for nvidia GPU's but i guess when i saw the screen icon that's what came to mind instantly lol.

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binay_dear
Journeyman III

Re: Windows 10 Spring Update 1803 and AMD drivers not working. unable to load windows.

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Sir, i don't know abt this. M using my HDTV via HDMI hooked into my GPU. I haven't done any fresh install as m not sure that if it occurs again then no backup/wayout to roll back. I have only one monitor via hdmi that's detected as non-pnp. I nvr faced this issue on any previous build but have no idea what's going on with this build. Is this the only fix for this or any other method is there? Coz m not updating for now, will stick to 1709 with updates blocked. M quite disappointed, seeing no hopes to fix this.

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binay_dear
Journeyman III

Re: Windows 10 Spring Update 1803 and AMD drivers not working. unable to load windows.

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I tried the above workaround u mentioned regarding monitor's driver but unfortunately it didn't work in my case.

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bobcamo
Adept II

Re: Windows 10 Spring Update 1803 and AMD drivers not working. unable to load windows.

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ok,

yeah that's the only thing i figured out by accident as this has worked for my PC so far. but if this update really is messing with hardware drivers then anything to do with hardware or even USB stuff may need to be either re-installed or driver updated. hell, could even be a setting on the monitor or tv too. that's all i can think of so far. was constantly looking this up as my PC was practically unusable til i figured that that out for my end. but everything I've found out was that this update wasn't great lol.  but i will try to keep an eye out since i'm sure we're not the only one's with these problems. also one thing to mention as a just in case. this could probably go even as far as needing to reset the BIOS to defaults then trying it out then re-do your settings(did that a few times before updating windows trying to mess with my CPU and such). just trying to think of even the smallest things as this is oddly messing with things why i said maybe a true fresh install may work, but this is something that should be tested with everyone's stuff on a different drive(HDD, SSD, M.2) if available due to the vast differences of hardware and different experiences with this update.

EDIT:
Well, trying to test things out. so far if i run all my cleaners after doing the monitor uninstall the infinite loading screen came back, but went into safe mode and uninstalled the monitor again and everything is fine.
Cleaner's i used, CCleaner, IObit driver booster, IObit Advanced System care, IObit uninstaller. used both cleaning's and registry cleanings and it's helped cause the problem to come back. so from something like that it could be for my end at least something to do with a registry entry.

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binay_dear
Journeyman III

Re: Windows 10 Spring Update 1803 and AMD drivers not working. unable to load windows.

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Damn even i use ccleaner n adv system care. M not understanding whats the problem here. I use ddu in safe mode to uninstall/completely clean my amd drivers. N then i install latest one/same if required. Now, today i saw changelog of a new version of ddu where it says suppport added for 1803 build. But m confused now whether i shud update via windows update n then test this out so if it messes up then will simply roll back. Or if i perform clean install n for any reason it starts occurring there also then it will cause me a big issue cz i'll have to again install older windows build n set my system. Or last thing i can do is better keep my pc as it is right now, keep the update blocked n wait for few days/maybe months. What do u suggest?

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bobcamo
Adept II

Re: Windows 10 Spring Update 1803 and AMD drivers not working. unable to load windows.

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damn, yeah. um... idk, i got a 60GB ssd i can test a clean install on and see if i get any problems. will test cleaners and such but for now, i'd suggest not updating just yet... that DDU thing i think i tried first when everything happened and nothing happened. even if they just updated it, i'd have to test it my self. but if you have an extra un-used drive. go ahead and install windows on it with all the updates and everything then reboot, then install all drivers needed for hardware. until then, i can test it out on my end when i have time. going to be busy this weekend as i'm heading to a bond fire tonight but once i get done with all that i'll switch out my drives and give it a try. but over all, if everything I've done is not working on your end then that's why i'm guessing it's messing with drivers so badly and why i was saying maybe a fresh install may avoid this. but til i can test this my self or something is mentioned, then i'd keep at the old version and NOT update til then.

EDIT:
Odd thing is... none of my friends i play games with haven't had any problems with this but noticed they all have intel and nvidia CPU's and GPU's. only thing my one friend has problems with was a couple beta programs by i think corsair. but that's it. but overall, it all seems to be on microsofts end with how the update is performed... why i was noticing so many things for backing up the drive's before even updating to this new windows update.

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waltc
Miniboss

Re: Windows 10 Spring Update 1803 and AMD drivers not working. unable to load windows.

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bobcamo wrote:

EDIT:
Odd thing is... none of my friends i play games with haven't had any problems with this but noticed they all have intel and nvidia CPU's and GPU's. only thing my one friend has problems with was a couple beta programs by i think corsair. but that's it. but overall, it all seems to be on microsofts end with how the update is performed... why i was noticing so many things for backing up the drive's before even updating to this new windows update.

I have an AMD RX-480 8GB GPU installed, and have had no trouble whatever with 1803 and the latest Adrenalin driver, and my CPU is an AMD R5 1600 @3.8Ghz.  Not even a squeak of a problem--and I am already on build 17661.  Your problems aren't there, imo, but elsewhere in your system.