ramenrider

Input Lag and Mouse Movement Tweaks for Gaming v3 2020 Edition

Discussion created by ramenrider on Feb 20, 2020
Latest reply on Jun 12, 2020 by lardo

Purpose

This guide is meant to explore and expand discussion into what causes Input Lag(going to be regarded as IL) and mouse movement. If you do not see a point in reducing as much input lag as possible, that is fine, but this is for people who enjoy the feeling of high responsive gameplay/desktop environments such as back during XP or windows 7 days or at least make the mouse feel that way again.

 

I will be going over why I do this and which tweaks I feel help. They will be separated into Best, Other, GPU, and Tin Foil. Best are just the best, Other are ones that I do not deem too necessary, GPU are just AMD GPU settings, and Tin Foil are ones I feel is too difficult to determine whether if it's placebo or not. Please keep in mind, almost all of these tweaks have a link associated with the tweak/line. Also keep in mind that this is ongoing research, there is very little to no research at all on this topic besides several youtubers and forums and everything is always subject to change. This guide is meant to bring all the best tweaks together and test them out so feedback is much appreciated.

 

[There's tons of links riddled all over this guide. Make sure to hover over text to see if they have a link.]

 

Abstract

I have lived with input lag on my Ryzen build for 2 years but had IL(Input Lag) for 4 years due to windows 10. I had no clue why I had so much IL in all of my games and desktop compared to my previous FX and Athlon builds and after 2 years of research I have found some tweaks that can help. <Note> I am using the same setup: mouse, 144hz monitor, room, outlet as my previous setups so I can feel the performance differences. https://community.amd.com/message/2932134

I bought some FX parts for cheap included with an r9 270 and have finally determined that my Polaris GPU the RX 580 8gb has an insane amount of IL. Casual gamers/users will not notice but competitive gamers who play FPS's, Fighters, Racing games will most definitely notice. The inability to hit a target, or react to an attack or corner is all directly linked to IL.

There may be other Polaris GPUs that also have IL(Input Lag) but me and some other people have all confirmed there is IL in the 580 and not just from one brand either(Mine was XFX RX 580 8GB XXX Black Edition):

I do not know if reference versions make a difference as I have not tested them. I hear 3rd party GPUs can sometimes introduce IL through bios and software changes, and that the reference R9 290s are king tier when it comes to IL.


Turns out there is input lag differences for CPUs and GPUs! As tested by Tech Yes City with a 1000fps camera, the Ryzen 2700x gets much less input lag than 9900k in desktop and workbenches. HOWEVER, the 9900k and Xeon 1680 both get much lower input lag in CSGO than the 2700x. The main cause of this is due to Microsoft's piss poor scheduler/optimization for ryzen. [Remember microsoft only "otpimized it" when AMD and Microsoft collaborated on the Surface when the 3000 series and x570s came out.] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsbVSknUK7I

  • Don't forget Intel and Microsoft have had a history of crippling AMD's performance within the past 2 decades that still affects some software today: How to Bypass Matlab's 'Cripple AMD CPU' Function - ExtremeTech. If you don't have software after Windows 7 Service Pack 1(2013) there is always a small program called "Intel Compiler Patcher".

 

But do not worry, I believe Ryzen can have much less IL than Intel, especially now due to all of those vulnerability patches from Windows Updates. Intel are taking 15-20% performance hits and even have hyper threading disabled on older systems which is why so many people are switching to AMD right now! YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN258Q2Y-T8

 

Obviously I do not have access to a 1000fps camera like Tech Yes City or Battle Nonsense but I can feel IL differences along with others and it matches people's research to who do have 1000fps cameras. This led me on the long journey to find all the best tweaks possible to get back my mojo. Now this entire Abstract was  focused on hardware input lag, which is an entirely different beast in itself, but now it's time to talk about all the things you can do software wise.

 

EDIT: Windows 10 feels more sluggish since 1809 because they've permanently set QueryPerformanceFrequency to 10mhz instead of the smaller one we've had before. This is due to Intel's spectre and meltdown vulnerabilities. {Dammit again Intel ruining it for all of us.} https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/queryperformancefrequency-qpc-is-10-mhz-since/d0fb399d-5dfd-4a7a-af5f-220751953ad0

 

Best Tweaks

  • Windows 10 Language Spyware Bug You have to set your language to English Philippines or English Israel while you remove the other language packs. English US and English UK seem to be laggy. However, I believe this tweak "seems" to work on 8.1 as well, maybe even 7 but haven't tested enough.
  • Set GPU Priority to 8 and Priority to 6 in System Profile Tasks.
  • TCPOptimizer I have no clue which settings are the best yet cause there's just so many variables. Feel free to tell me your best settings. Make sure to use optimal preset settings first, then custom configure from there. You can use this in place of setting System Responsiveness to 0. (read on to learn more)
Combining these 2 Guides have ascended me from a mere mortal back to reclaiming my throne. It is as if the sun and moon kissed. Just tested it for a few hours on my FX build and I was getting headshots, drifting corners, and counter crushing street fighters like nothing. Back then when I had input lag, I always feel like my game engine was like a second behind. Now I regained my mojo(I'd say I'm back 97%) and I haven't even installed official AMD GPU drivers yet! However there is much more testing to do. Right now I am using Windows 8.1 updated (with Classic-Shell/Open-Shell to disable AERO) with almost everything disabled on BIOS. I do have HPET and CSM enabled in BIOS though(you can read why later on in #Current Research). I can see why overclockers can usually feel a difference; it's not just because they are disabling features for a stable overclock, but they are reducing input lag in the process!
Can confirm, that by resetting all the BIOS settings to Load Optimal Defaults, I have felt
the system is more sluggish and has more stutters. Will test this out on my Ryzen build later.
The only way I was able to install Windows 8 with CSM off was to use a customized pirated CD
ISO {made by Generation 2} on my CD drive connected through SATA. But it wasn't installed in legacy mode it was defaulted to UEFI!  Will try true Legacy mode install next time.

Current Research

 

Edit: Turning off APM master mode feels terrible and introduces stuttering(AM3+ Boards).


Other huge Tweaks:

 


AMD GPU Tweaks:

 

 

Tin Foil Tweaks

 

MSI Utility. You can configure MSI line interupts manually but MSI utility just so much more convenient.

 

Ending Notes: Now that I provided you several hundred tweaks you can try out, you can do so yourself. Yeah it is "placebo" but I can certainly tell the difference as a competitive gamer. If we could feel the difference between V-Sync on and off, why is it so farfetched that me and many others can feel differences in these tweaks?
None of us have 1000fps cameras at our disposal but we do have experience, and I'm sure there's other competitive PVP gamers out there who can definitely tell the difference in their machine's performance and any feedback is much appreciated.

 

It's been PROVEN that these input lag differences Do Exist and coincide with my findings. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsbVSknUK7I

I usually rank at least diamond or masters in all the games I played: Overwatch, League of Legends, SFV but for the past 2 years I couldn't really play any of them competitively because of some over arching lag in my system. I mean I Could play them but it's just disgusting to play with higher input lag and hurts my soul. First 3 hours after tweaking and switching hardware around I finally moved on from diamond to masters in Overwatch and the difference is immediately noticeable if I switch back. Flipping through options I can definitely tell the difference. It might just be better frame delivery or better consistency but whatever It is, it makes my system more responsive in desktop or games. There is however still more testing to be done.

Bonus Content

Quote: Originally Posted by r0ach

There is no fix. Windows XP was a hardware accelerated desktop, then Win 7 wasn't, then Win 8.1 was again. This is why desktop cursor movement vs exclusive full-screen 3d mode feels the same in Windows 8.1 but not Windows 7. What's bizarre is Nvidia doesn't support Windows 8.1 on 2060-2080 series but does on 1600 series. I refuse to use Windows 10 New World Order edition myself. It's Microsoft attempting to transition to a fully locked down, Apple-style OS, and I would use it solely as a game box and nothing else due to that, but cursor movement is worse than Win 8.1, so I have no use for it at all.

Reply: By RamenRider

Windows 10 pre October 2016 was actually great for input lag and gaming, kinda like 7 and 8.1. Before they forced in the Windows Optimization feature. They did something so horrible that de-synchronized the desktop mouse movement and in game mouse movement forever. Before I remember changing the display scaling, such as 100% magnification to 125%, and it would affect the mouse movement or dpi in game. It was amazing, it was almost like cheating as if the magnification increased the hitboxes; or just adjusted the dpi resolution to make it easier to move/accelerate. Worked for Windows 7 and 8 as well. Whatever it was, it was a slice of heaven.

This would mean I need to also test out Windows 8.1 for gaming performance.

Back to talking about the input lag defenders.

Look how they even attack and downvote this guy asking the same questions!

 https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/egdiw9/is_it_true_that_ryzen_has_more_latencyinput_lag/

This poor guy is just asking a question and everyone is berating and downvoting him for no reason? You don't see anything wrong with this? Maybe it's not me or anyone else curious that's in the wrong. Turns out all of those naysayers were proven wrong in that thread when Tech Yes released his video a few month later! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsbVSknUK7I

Oh the Irony

 

Final Notes

 

 I have tested GTX 970 with my Ryzen but the difference is nonexistant. The Windows 10 1903 upgrade was much more significant. I did try out default AMD GPU drivers that did not include chill and anti-lag but there is no noticeable difference; same rules apply, as turning off enhanced sync feels better, but the only real major changes are at the hardware level. Switching to R9 270 made the biggest difference because in performance, because the RX 580 IL is at a hardware/bios level that even affects people with Intel. https://community.amd.com/thread/235028. I also would love to test out Ryzen 2 differences as well, but I do not have much time or money anymore as I am back in school. Hope this helps though.

 

Just tested my FX build with Lhun and r0ach guides and it feels amazing. However parts of their guides conflict and everyone's motherboard is different, so I have to find my own path. Unfortunately Latest Adrenaline 2020 drivers do not work with 8.1  but it feels good even if I am using only 17.x drivers(maybe due to no AMD overlay?) Make sure to test out CSM Legacy, Disable Fullscreen Optimization, Disabling HPET, Lhun's guide, Windows 8.1 ect.

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