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jaybonaut
Adept II

2600X temperature hits 95°-96°C transcoding video - with included Wraith Spire

Is this the design intent?  Please help:

I haven't owned an AMD product since the original Athlon (no, I am not kidding.)  I wanted to build a transcoding machine as a Plex server for movies and such and due to all the hype around Ryzen I thought I would toss them some money and check it out.

When I finish ripping a DVD of mine I use Handbrake to transcode it down to a more reasonable size.  This can take varying lengths but to give me time to test it out for this particular thread, I took a 4K video and set up Handbrake to use my DVD preset and go at it.

I hit the temps listed in the title within a little while and it will float from 94°-95°C for a good 40 minute offline transcode.  I have everything but the RAM set to Auto in the motherboard bios.  Bios, Windows 10 64, AMD processor/chipset driver are all up to date as of today.  Windows is set to Windows Balanced power settings and not the Ryzen one - lowest CPU is allowed is 5% with that power plan and 100% is highest.  The Wraith Spire is locked on there pretty tight - it won't move and is flush with the included TIM.

Even idle this thing will sit from 38°- 41°C with the included cooler.  Is this thing designed to not be used for this kind of stuff?  Transcoding via Plex is easier on it and doesn't get near that temp unless a person transcodes a 4K stream to a lower rez, but I prefer offline transcoding that kind of file for obvious reasons.

AMD Ryzen 5 2600X using Wraith Spire cooler (3.6-4.2 GHz)

16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3000MHz Ram

ASUS ROG Strix X470-I AM4 mini-ITX motherboard

Gigabyte Geforce GTX 1050 2GB Graphics Card

Thermaltake Toughpower SFX 600W 80+ Gold Modular PSU

Cooler Master Elite 130 mini-ITX Case

XPG ADATA SX8200 NVMe M.2 2280 480 GB OS drive

Seagate Barracuda Pro 8TB 256MB Cache media drive

https://i.imgur.com/MGisZKh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/H1bboCK.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/9Go79Sc.jpg

Included some pics.  Am I going to damage my processor?  I am not overclocking it manually at all - it supposedly does it on its own.  I believe they call it XFR.  It does lower the clock as it gets hotter but I can't imagine why it won't go even lower with that kind of temp.

Is there a built-in temperature offset or something for the 2600X?  What can I do?  etc.

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46 Replies
misterj
Big Boss

jaybonaut, how are you measuring CPU temperature?  You should consider Ryzen Master as a reference.  Please DL and install it (if not currently installed) and post the temperatures you see.  Here are the specifications for your processor from the AMD Processor site:

2600X.jpg

BTW, the image icon at the top here is easy to use and does not use external URLs.

If your temperatures continue (with Ryzen Master) to sit around 94 or 95C, I would be suspicious that the TIM bond is poor or the cooler is insufficient.  I went to AIO water coolers some time ago and continue to use only water coolers.  I used a Corsair on my 1800X and have a EnerMax  Liqtech TR4 on my 1950X.  Your small crowded box may be contributing to high temperatures requiring some cooler help.  If possible de-clutter your case especially with some cable management.  I cannot really say you will damage your processor running long term at these temperatures.  That would be for AMD to comment on and I do not represent AMD.  I suggest you open an Online Support Request with AMD and ask them.  I would feel uncomfortable seeing temperatures at these levels on my system, thus why I am suggesting you consider a better cooler.  Enjoy, John.

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misterj, I already posted the temperatures I see.  I do have Ryzen Master installed but have not made any changes with it.

I detailed the idle temps - does that indicate a poor TIM bond?  If not, and the cooler is insufficient, then you are basically telling me that AMD included an insufficient cooler in the box by design/on purpose..?

The box is not crowded, but it is small.  If you take a close look at the pictures (click on them to make them larger) you will see there is nothing blocking airflow to the CPU.  There is a straight shot from the front fan directly to it, and the PSU is extra tiny to allow even more airflow, and the side fan also has direct access to the CPU.  The cables you see are hovering way above the CPU section and do not block any air coming from the two fans.  Perhaps I can take a better angled shot to show you that, but I ask you take a second look while zoomed in.

Please note that these high temps mentioned in the title is when I am software transcoding full movies, which is WAY harder on any CPU compared to any gaming being done - same can be said for rendering video in editing programs.

fnordie
Adept II

hi!

i also think AMD should have sold the 2600x without the cooler. the heatsink is on its limit. 2600x CPU is 95W, the coolers max is also 95W..

originally it was bundled with the 1600x wich has only 65W TDP. im sure for 65W its fine.

i also got 2600x, asrock x470 gaming k4, 16 gb 3200 ram.

i had the same expierence with wraith spire.

1 minute handbreak 85c

2 minute handbreak 92,5c

3 minute handbreak i was at 95c

I reinstalled the boxed cooler 3 times but not getting better. this is in a phanteks case (2 fans in 2 fans out) so i dont think your case size is a big factor.

Then i got a Arctic Freezer 33 TR..

with PBO on "enabled" i get 76,5c....

with PBO on "Auto" i get 66,5c.. all at the 3 min mark

ilde its about the same as wraith spire

i still have to play with PBO settings

PBO and XFR do a lot to temps.

some boards have PBO Levels, check your bios settings

keep an eye on the core voltage, with PBO its higher for sure

can someone tell me why my 2600x with 95W TDP is running much hotter than my previous FX 6350 wich had 125W?

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You two are may be talking about two different temperatures.  The only valid temperatures to be talked about are the ones shown by Ryzen Master.  I do not trust any other application for measuring temperatures especially the free ones.  Aida64 is fine, has a fee but I found a problem in it recently concerning Ryzen 2 series.  I have no idea what PBO is.

jaybonaut, when I asked you to tell us what your temperatures were as shown by Ryzen Master, I did it for a reason.  It is the ONLY official temperature to be compared with the specifications.  I have never liked AMD 'boxed' coolers and hope to be able to buy a processor only so I can buy my own cooler.  Several years ago I switched to AIO (All In One) water coolers and have had no temperature problems.  I do not work for AMD and cannot say what their motivations are for selecting coolers.  They certainly do not know the range of cases builders use, ambient temperatures, case circulation etc.  I always go overboard on CPU cooler and power supply.  Please tell us what your room temperatures and MB temperatures are.  Enjoy, John.

misterj, those are the temps from Ryzen Master.

Now, when you asked about temperatures of the room and motherboard, realize that is not something Ryzen Master shows me as far as I can tell.  I have two external devices that give me my room temp, and after converting from F to C, the room goes from 21° to 25°C for me to be comfortable.  As far as the motherboard is concerned, the software it came with states around 34°C.

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jaybonaut, thanks, that all sounds very good, except for the 95-96C from Ryzen Master.  If it were me and you plan workloads like these mostly on a continuous basic, I would seriously consider a better cooler.  It would be good to ask AMD online support but I would fear these constant close to limit temperatures will shorten your processor life.  I used a Corsair Hydro Series H100i V2 on my 1800X and it worked well.  You do need the room for the radiator.  Enjoy, John.

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According to ASUS Support concerning your motherboard, you can set a CPU FAN Profile in BIOS using Q-FAN. http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/SocketAM4/ROG_STRIX_X470-I_GAMING/E14353_ROG_STRIX_X470-I_GAMING... .

Also you have a very new BIOS for your Motherboard: ROG STRIX X470-I GAMING Driver & Tools | Motherboards | ASUS USA . (Updating the BIOS can make the Ryzen CPU more compatible with other hardware).

BIOS

Version 09012018/07/277.81 MBytes

ROG STRIX X470-I GAMING BIOS 0901
Release BIOS 0901 for improving FF XIV BENCHMARK

also AMD CHIPSET :

Chipset

Version 17.72018/04/08573.23 MBytes

AMD Chipset Driver
AMD Chipset Driver V17.7 for Windows 10 64-bit.(WHQL)

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As stated in the OP, the BIOS is updated.

I went and changed the fan profile to Turbo so that it kicks in to 100% a little earlier, just below 70°.  There is nothing in the fan profile that could change the results I am talking about at all however.

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hi again

how many RPM is your wraith spire reporting at a 100%? mine never got above 2200-2300RPM if i remember correctly. i always had the fan set on on 100% past 60 or 70c and still got to 95 with handbreak encoding.

what are your temps now with fan at 100%?

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Yeah that sounds about right, about 2200-2300 RPM.

The fan was at 100% with those temps already.  By default, it hits 100% around 70°.

Sounds like you need to upgrade your CPU Cooler to a more powerful one. If you want a inexpensive but one of the best i would suggest Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO made for CPUs with TDP of 150 watts.  That is if your computer case and motherboard has room to install a large CPU Cooler. Or best yet buy a Water Cooled CPU Cooler which are more efficient but are more expensive.

If your CPU Cooler was going at 100% and your CPU Temps reached almost to the point of overheating then it is not strong enough for the type of work you are doing or your CPU cooler is not working correctly. Your CPU has a TDP of 95 watts with a maximum temperature of 95 centigrade:

Default TDP / TDP

95W

Max Time

95°C

This website compares the Wraith MAX and SPIRE to the Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO: AMD Wraith Max and Wraith Spire Coolers Benchmark Results | RelaxedTech .

This was their comparison:

Temperature & Noise Results

amd wraith max and spire cooler temp
When measuring temperatures, you have to account for margin of error which is 1-2 degree Celsius. I'm very impressed by the cooling performance of the Wraith Max. It performed almost on par with the CM 212 EVO in idle and under load. In idle, the Wraith Max and CM Hyper 212 EVO achieved the same idle temperatures. Under load, the Wraith Max was about 2 Celsius warmer which is excellent considering that this is a stock cooler competing with an after market cooler. The Wraith Spire had the highest idle and load temperatures but I was not expecting the Wraith Spire to compete with the CM 212 EVO.

I would probably look into purchasing a Water Cooled CPU Cooler if you can afford it since you have a small motherboard.

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Yes that is kind of my point.

Why would AMD intentionally include a cooler that cannot keep the CPU below its max threshold?  Surely my ambient temperature is plenty cool enough; did they intend for this processor and cooler to never be used for video transcoding and rendering?  The Ryzen 2600X, a multicore hyperthreading processor isn't meant to be used for this?

I just tried the TPU 1 sequence where the Asus board runs tests and configures itself for what it can handle which has brought temps down a little bit, but if I let it transcode for a good while, sure enough, it will stay around 93°-95° anyways using the included cooler.  The Hyper 212 EVO is a cooler I have used for many builds, but it wasn't enough for the 7700K at stock and that has a TDP of 91W.  I ended up using https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015E14J9M/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1​ that one for the 7700K.

Beyond the added cost going this route, I would naturally I assume have to rip apart the whole machine to install the proper backplate.  Sigh.  All this because they personally chose to include a cooler that cannot handle the processor its included with.

Found this review of the Ryzen 5 2600x Power consumption and temperature: AMD Ryzen 5 2600X review - Power Consumption

Copied from above link: Mentions about transcoding video

I want to make it very clear that power consumption measurements will differ per PC and setup. Your attached components use power but your motherboard can also have additional ICs installed like an audio controller, 3rd party chips, network controllers, extra SATA controllers, extra USB controllers, and so on. These parts all consume power, so these results are a subjective indication. Next, to that, we stress all CPU cores 100% and thus show peak power consumption. Unless you transcode video with the right software your average power consumption will be much lower. Ryzen 5 2600X and Ryzen 7 2700X definitely consumes more power in heavy-threaded workloads, roughly an additional 35~50 Watts

Temperature Reporting

To keep a "consistent fan policy," AMD is forcing 10C offset on only the Ryzen 2700X processors. This makes them report temperature a good 10C above what the sensor reads. The rest of the models on the AM4 Platform have the same maximum tCTL value.  The primary temperature reporting sensor of the AMD Ryzen processor is a sensor called “T Control,” or tCTL for short. The tCTL sensor is derived from the junction (Tj) temperature—the interface point between the die and heatspreader—but it may be offset on certain CPU models so that all models on the AM4 Platform have the same maximum tCTL value. This approach ensures that all AMD Ryzen and thus Ryzen Threadripper processors have a consistent fan policy.

Product NameTrue Junction Temp (tThe)tCTL Offset for Fan PolicyTemp Reported by (tCTL)
Threadripper 1950X43°C27°C70°C
Threadripper 1920X43°C27°C70°C
Ryzen 7 2700X38°C10°C48°C
Ryzen 7 270038°C0°C38°C
Ryzen 5 2600X38°C0°C38°C
Ryzen 5 260038°C0°C38°C
Ryzen 7 1800X38°C20°C58°C
Ryzen 7 1700X38°C20°C58°C
Ryzen 7 170038°C0°C38°C

In short, if you use any monitoring software, you need to look at the Tdie as temperature, it's the correct one to look at.

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Yeah I was using Ryzen Master.

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I doubt you are actually reaching that temperature as the thermal max for Ryzen is 91*C, then again you ARE using it in a tiny case with restricted airflow so it is possible, using Vidcoder to encode a movie easily keeps my slightly overclocked 1800X (4ghz) with a Corsair H115i in the mid 60s with my spacious Corsair C70 case and drawing in outside air through the radiator. You have 6, cores churning away there, it's going to generate heat, and if you're going to be hammering it hard, you need liquid cooling.

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i have a full atx case (phanteks p350x, 4 fans) and still hit 95 on wraith spire. not aceptable IMHO.

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Why would you assume I am not reaching that temperature?  I am on a Zen+ by the way, unlike your 1800X.  According to AMD's own website you are incorrect.  It states max is 95°.

Also, there is not restricted airflow - my pics probably do not show how much space is there.  There is a straight shot from the front fan right to it - it just needs to get over the ram sticks like every other single case in existence.

go get some arctic mx-4 and clean up the mess of the bad stuff

apply a small 1/2 bb size amount on the CPU

attach the wraith cooler and wiggle it a bit to set the mx-4

boot and power down 3 times to thermally set then use norrmally

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That would eliminate a bad TIM bonding as originally mentioned by the OP. But do you believe that the Wraith Spire may not be sufficient enough to cool a 95 watt CPU since according to fnordie​​ the Wraith Spire was made for CPUs of TDP of 95 watts or less.

It is possible with a small computer case with less than ideal air circulation that the Wraith Spire may not be able to keep a 95 watt CPU below overheating?

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i reinstalled my cooler 3 times with mx 2 and default paste.

ILDE temps are fine, mine are nearly the same.

the 2600x deserves Wraith Max.

sure for gaming the spire is fine but what if you have serious work for your CPU on all cores?

without XFR and PBO the wraith might be ok, but than i could have bought a i5 8400..

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Yeah, I could keep it at 3.6 GHz and locked there, but that actually denies a designed selling point feature of the chip!

It's kind of ridiculous.

jaybonaut, as I have said before, use ONLY Ryzen Master to measure your CPU temperatures!  As I said before, AMD apparently did not anticipate every person's use of their HW.  It is obvious that your cooler is NOT sufficient to cool your CPU in your usage.  I found a test of many, many TIMs.  Different brands made little difference.  If it is applied properly, there was just a few degrees C difference between the best (a liquid metal product that will destroy your processor) to the worst.  The only two that were significantly worse was toothpaste and shaving creme - yes, tooth paste and shaving creme.  The main thing I learned is TIM does not make much difference!  I suggest you get a smaller AIO closed loop water cooler and cure your problem.  Please do not waste your money on fancy TIMs and waste your time on reapplying your CPU cooler.  Enjoy, John.

EDIT:  Here is a link to the TIM testing.  It was denture creme not shaving creme.

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thats true

check your bios if you have PBO Enabled. i get about 10c less with it disabled. in such workloads you will only loose about a 100herz with it off but get a much lower vcore an because of that lower temps. i made a topic on this forum about it, justa added screenshots

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I presume that you are using Professional software for your video editing and transcoding.

By any chance, does your software have any settings concerning Performance?  This is where you can set the CPU or software from low to high Priority. The Higher the priority the more it uses computer resources.

Reason why I mention this, because I am using a Non-MS Backup program and it was set for Medium Priority Performance. My FX 8350 basically Maxed out to 100% CPU usage and overheated and shutdown with my then stock CPU Cooler that I had installed at the same time I bought the CPU several years ago.  I found the Priority settings in the software and changed it to Low Priority. I was now able to run the Backup program without overheating (still the CPU got extremely hot)  and the CPU Usage ran around 60-70% instead of 100%. Afterwards, I replaced the Stock CPU Cooler with the CoolerMaster Hybrid 212 EVO and now my CPU runs below 65 Centigrade even with 100% CPU Usage.

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Handbrake was the one I was using.

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By default Handbrake sets it to Below Normal.  I've kept it as such as far as priority level.  That only affects it when other work is needed at the exact same time I am transcoding, otherwise it will run all cores at 100% the entire time even on Below Normal anyway.  As far as transcoding settings go, it really depends on size and compatibility.  I honestly don't think it makes much difference in what is changed.  If you change nothing in the video and audio but change it to burn in subtitles for example, it still has to retranscode the entire video feed for every single frame.

...but yeah, it looks like we've determined that if you set up your motherboard to basic defaults with the included features advertised for this chip, AMD's Spire cooler is designed to not be good enough on purpose for transcoding video.  I assume they just either saved some pennies or thought people would only using it for browsing and gaming.

EDIT:  by the way, the Handbrake team is in fact working on adding NVENC as a transcoding option.  That would speed everything up by a HUGE amount and GPUs can handle heat far better, however hardware transcoding is inferior quality-wise by comparison.

i think the motherboard makers are at fault here. they fight for best performance, so i think they are boosting the v core voltage more than "needed" to ensure stability and maybe higher clocks.

this priority thing never was a issue with my last machines.

Also if you OC and your CPU behaves like that (overheating) i would not consider the system STABLE.

but pc hardware is getting ridicolous in every way. i guess christmas tree lights and glass cases sell better then robust cases with a airflow concept.

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I get what you are saying however it doesn't apply - I showed you my case in the OP.  I'm with you on that though - when I was much younger I built with windowed cases and lights but after awhile it just seemed stupid to me and wasted money.

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waltc
Miniboss

Perhaps something in your installation of the cooler leaves something to be desired?...;)  I own an R5 1600 clocked--all cores--to 3.8GHz @ 1.375v and it runs all day @ 100% load and rarely do I see it exceed 70C. (MSI x370 Gaming Pro Carbon AC.)  I am using the included stock cooler the cpu shipped with--it's more than adequate. I think yours may even be a tad better than mine.

Could be a couple of things--I have good case-fan airflow which keeps ambient temps down.  If your case has little to no flow, the temp inside will rise and cause the cpu temp to rise as well.  The fan/cooler on the cpu itself is only ~75% of the total cooling situation. Second, and most likely, your motherboard is reading the temp offset of the T-junction incorrectly--there is an offset, so that the cpu always reports a higher temperature than is actually occurring--and you may be unfamiliar with that fact--it's to help stabilize fan profiles, and the like.  If that's the case then your motherboard is simply reporting the wrong temps and as you are running and if you have good case ventilation then you should have no problems.  I would suggest that update your motherboard bios to the latest AGESA version, and that you check the forums of your motherboard maker to see if others are reporting a similar problem, and if so, what they did to alleviate it.  AMD makes the chipsets and supplies the core logic for all motherboards--AMD does not, however, sell or maintain motherboards directly.  That is the job of your motherboard OEM.

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Your 1600 is a 65 tdp chip and the 2600X is a 95 tdp chip.

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2600x has NO temp offset! only ryzen+ chip with 10c offset is 2700x!

Correct.

fnordie, all Threadrippers, 1 & 2, have a 27 C offset.  AMD's reasoning is to equalize the fan control to an equivalent 'real' temperature.  Enjoy, John.

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It's fine.

The 2600x with stock settings overclocks itself on the fly (XFR, Precision Boost) with thermals as one of control inputs. The cooler can keep it below its maximum operating temperature at base clocks, so the processor's overclocking itself to use up the thermal headroom. The temperatures look scary if you're not used to that behaviour, but they are within operating specifications. If they get too high, the CPU will start backing back down towards its base clocks to compensate.

Idle temps look to be the same as I had with the stock cooler, so there's no sign of any problem here.

You've got an atypical workload which is why it's pushing the cooling solution to its limit - video encoding is one of the few tasks than can load up all threads to 100% and sustain that for more than a few seconds. It's also a task that's able to leverage AVX instructions, which perform much better but use a lot more power - and so generate more heat - doing it. Under that specific workload, your CPU is probably using a lot more than 95W of power.

Despite all that the CPU is holding to the limit with the included cooler, not exceeding it.

A higher capacity cooler wouldn't benefit 95%+ of users. You'd personally benefit from one because it would give XFR/PB more thermal headroom to work with; that doesn't mean you'd get better temperatures, but that the CPU would be able to boost higher and perform even better with a bigger cooler. You wouldn't see better temperatures until you bolt on a cooler who's thermal capacity exceeds the CPUs ability to boost further; the same CPU being run with a cooler with a 300W dissipation capacity can still hit 75'c under all-core AVX workloads. I know because I'm using one.

Which one are you using?

Also, I don't see a labeled AVX offset on this motherboard but perhaps it is labeled differently?  I know on my 7700K machine there is one and I have it set to downclock by about 300 MHz.

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best explaination in this discussion, thanks

my coolder is feezer 33 TR, its rated

Max. Cooling Capacity: 320 Watts

Recommended for TDP up to: 200 Watts

but i think arctic is optimistic with these numbers

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Yeah if I look at CPUID HWMonitor, it said peak max wattage hit 123.83 during a transcode.

I reset my machine back to defaults from when I initially started this thread with a couple of exceptions (I tried the TPU 1 option from Asus which sets a stable OC on air supposedly.)  I changed RAM to whatever they call XMP for AMD (I forget the name) and I changed the CPU voltage to 1.35 as I read some article that stated that is the maximum sustained voltage for an OC according to AMD.

...so now I am jumping back up to higher speeds but also higher temps.  Just hit 96° peak.

...by the way, HWMonitor and Ryzen Master practically mirror each other when I have them both open so whoever told me that only Ryzen Master is to be believed is technically incorrect.  The main difference is that Master shows temps to two decimal places.  I kind of wish it would show individual core temps though like my Intel chip.

When I transcode a movie, it does in fact show the clocks going all over the place when it gets hot, but it never drops clocks to the point where it would be below 95° for very long.  I was just questioning this design idea because of it.  I am tempted to get a 120 AIO but you are basically stating that it will only help push the chip to faster clock speeds and keep the temp up there at 95°?

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noodles59
Miniboss

My thoughts? get a decent case first instead of discussing how to vent an oven properly!?

example attached

the wraith thing is just a bad idea - why? coz it's heating the mobo area due to the horizontal airflow .. a perfectly stoopid design!

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