Graphics Cards

[daymon74]

I have a Moneul Moncaso PC case which is a compact case so I may be somewhat limited in the physical size a graphics card I can use. MAXIMUS IV GENE-Z motherboard, EFI bios,  700w psu, Intel core i5 2500k 3.30GHz cpu. I've never replaced a graphics card, but I understand it can be tricky business to get it right. I'm looking for a good modern card that will handle most if not all modern PC games. This 6570 has been great, but it's time to upgrade. I'm just hoping an upgrade is even possible. 

[colesdav]

Hi,

Crossfire DX11 and DX12 MultiGPU are definitely not useless as long as your motherboard PCIe slots have good bandwidth and there are specific AAA games you like and you know support it then great. If you already have one GPU and you find a matching GPU at low cost then it is worth it. Or if you use Blender MultiGPU rendering or are using MultiGPU for other reasons then you may as well make use of DX12 MultiGPU or DX11 Crossfire.

Last year when the RX Vega 64 was launched I looked at a detailed review of the RX Vega 64 8GB Liquid running on Prey in DX11.
I could match the FPS performance running two R9 Nanos in Crossfire DX11 on an older CPU.
DX12 Crossfire runs very well and gives a very good performance boost.
However I have multiple GPUs for rendering and other Compute already.

You are much better advised to buy one more powerful GPU than 2 cheaper GPU to use in DX11 Crossfire or DX12 MultiGPU.
It will be much easier and you will have day one support for all of the latest games.

Bye.

[pokester]

I found reading all the crossfire/sli issues in this three page thread at guru3d to pretty well illustrate the benefits and frustrations of that technology:

battlefield 1 dx12 crossfire | guru3D Forums

[colesdav]

Hi,

I was involved in Beta Testing Crossfire DX11 and MultiGPU DX12 on Battlefield 1. I tested on Dual PowerColor R9 Nanos at the time.
There were some flickering issues initially but they were resolved on my cards pretty quickly after sending in feedback.
Not been a problem for me on Battlefield 1.

Many people were complaining they were seeing negative scaling with Crossfire DX11 or MultiGPU DX12 at 1080p resolution on cards like RX480 8GB.

I took a quick look at Battlefield 1 MultiGPU DX12 and DX 11 Crossfire performance again with latest version of Windows 10 64bit, Adrenalin Driver 18.71. Primary GPU = R9 Fury X, Secondary GPU = R9 Nano, i7-4790K CPU, 32GB Ram.

All testing was run on BF1 with Ultra settings (i.e. graphics completely maxed out).

I noted the following.

(1). Battlefied1 in Campaign mode or in Multiplayer mode is very CPU intensive.

(2). There is some additional CPU overhead (10-15%) to run DX11 Crossfire or DX12 MultiGPU.

(3). If I run BF1 in DX11/DX12 with Crossfire/MultiGPU disabled I can hit 110/120 FPS at 1080p.

(4). if II run BF1 in DX11/DX12 with Crossfire/MultiGPU enabled I can hit 100/110 FPS at 1080p.

(5). From (3), and (4). above this tells me I am seeing slight negative scaling on BF1 at 1080p Ultra, graphics settings maxed out with Crossfire/MultiGPU enabled. I saw no texture Flicuring or graphics corruption issues.

(6). My conclusion is that the GPU is not limiting the FPS performance, but the CPU / game engine is limiting the performance at 1080p. It looks like BF1 does not generally to go above ~ 60-75% CPU Utilization. I did not have time to look into this but there might be a way to increase that limit and push up FPS performance. Another way to quickly increase FPS performance is to drop AA level by one setting and immediately gain an extra 10-15 FPS. In any case, 120FPS on DX12 with all graphics settings maxed out with a single R9 Fury X and an old i7-4790K sounds pretty good to me. It would be nice to hit 144FPS for top end Freesync monitor though.

(7). A better way to look at how MultiGPU DX12 or DX11 Crossfire is performing is to run at graphics settings and resolution which cause a single GPU to struggle w.r.t. FPS but does improve graphics quality. In my case I run BF1 in MultiGPU at 4K Ultra using Virtual Super Resolution on a 1080p Monitor , graphics settings maxed out. A single R9 Fury X can manage about 45 FPS in DX12. Running in DX12 MultiGPU in this case runs at ~ 85 FPS. This time,  where the game performance is GPU limited with a single GPU I get good scaling, much better visuals and resolution, and the FPS is > than most 4K 60Hz monitor needs.
Crossfire DX11 also shows positive scaling, but is not as good s DX12 MultiGPU.

Based on what I looked at yesterday, BF1 is running very well and scaling well at 4K Ultra, maxed out graphics with DX12 multiGPU.
Although DX11/Crossfire and DX12 MultiGPU do show slight negative scaling at 1080p, I think the limitation at that resolution is my CPU, not the GPU.

Bye.

[colesdav]

Hi,

I thought you might be interested to see an example of running BF1 at 4K Ultra settings with R9 FuryX and R9 Nano in DX12 multiGPU.
Example here: BF1 run at 4K Ultra settings with R9 FuryX and R9 Nano in DX12 MultiGPU. - YouTube

It was run on an i7-4790K with  32GB Ram.
I used FRTC to limit the peak FPS to 60.
Room temp here was 36'C today- heatwave, so the cards and PC are struggling.

Bye.

[pokester]

Nice, I can't wait until this tech is wide spread. I'm sure they will find a way to keep us from stringing a few cheap cards together.

[colesdav]

Hi,

It only works on a subset the few DX12 games that are available today and I think a single RX Vegs 64 8GB Liquid would give similar / better performance with much more convenience. It gives maybe  1.5x-1.7x scaling on that BF1 campaign.

Here is the performance on a single R9 Fury X for comparison: BF1 run at 4K Ultra settings with single R9 FuryX DX12. - YouTube.

The cards can run at similar performance on some of the BF1 Multiplayer campaigns such as Brusilov offensive but in one large open map I tried yesterday I get lower FPS. Not suggesting anyone play Multiplayer FPS Shooter at 4K, 40-60 FPS, just looking at GPU performance.

Definitely not a reason to go out and buy two GPU's but it works in BF1 single player campaign, I have the GPUs anyhow.

RE: cheap cards - the cards would be expensive new, the only reason they are cheap is because they were 'previously owned'.
It would be interesting to see how a pair of new  PowerColor Red Dragon RX580 8GB  would perform because they are ~ 220 each here.

Bye. 

[pokester]

Yah that is where I really like the idea of multi gpu is it is just plain more convenient in theory as it is the game that controls it not the driver. So I could have a new card and a couple old cards in the same machine and only in games where I enable Multi GPU in game would the other 2 cards help. This would again in theory eliminate most of the downside of crossfire/sli. Crossfire has received just plain awful to non-existent focus the last 2 years and even the green team fans complain of issues on sli now more than ever. I have thought for a year now that Crossfire and SLI are just about dead and everyone is waiting for DX12 multi gpu to really take off. It just is taking forever to get the from-the-ground-up DX12 engines that will truly utilize this tech to the market. Unfortunately with development cycles it is usually at least 3 years. I have a HD7950 and a R9 380x that could be giving me a decent boost once an engine can utilize it. By the time the tech is available in mass I will likely be on to another card but maybe my current card will still be the secondary. I hope so.

[colesdav]

Hi

Crossfire DX11 and  DX12 multiGPU on latest AAA games was really good on my R9 Nanos between the release of the RX 480 and the launch of RX Vega 64/56. It had to be because a pair of RX480 was the only way to take on a single GTX1080 from Nvidia at the time.
I remember the big Ashes of the Singularity DX12 multiGPU demo by AMD comparing 2 RX480 to one GTX1080.

Crossfire DX11, and Windows 8.1 64 bit driver support ended (silently) since Crimson ReLive 17.7.2 launch which coincided with the release of the RX Vega 64 and 56. I think the Vega 64 turned out way too power hungry for Crossfire DX11/ DX12 multiGPU. Although Crossfire DX11 still works in older titles I do not see it getting fixed if it breaks for some reason in the future.

The stability of the AMD Crimson Relive drivers bombed out for me since 17.7.2 release, then gradually improved until before Christmas, then first AMD Adrenalin drivers were pretty unstable. It was ~ end February 2018 before Adrenalin Drivers were stable enough for me to use I just went back to 17.7.1. until then.

I have mostly run multiGPU D12 with ~ matched AMD cards such as R9 Nanos or R9 FuryX/Nanos.
Interestingly Ashes of the Singularity used to provide excellent scaling with a pair of R9 Nanos but for ~ 1 year it has shown negative scaling. I have reported this to AMD. They do not seem interested.

I did run an R9 Nano with an Nvidia GTX 780Ti  > 1 year ago when Ashes multiGPU was working with positive scaling on my R9 Nanos.
It did work and it did show some positive scaling at the time.

It seems sometimes that all of these fantastic new technologies promoted like DX12 MultiGPU, Radeon Chill,  and some features promised on Vega are more Marketing fiction or short term efforts than reality.

I note on one of your other posts that you purchased an Nvidia card - can I ask which model?

Bye.

[pokester]

I actually have 2 current gen Nvidia cards. Neither high end but both work great. I have the 1050ti 4gb. At stock speeds it will do medium to high 1080p good. The crazy thing is that it over clocks like crazy. With it overclocked at around 160% it will do high to ultra settings with AA and shadows dialed back or AA off. Still just fantastic for the value of the card. This is where I wonder IF SOMEHOW they will stop people under Multi GPU from putting 3 1050 ti together for half the price of a 1080, like the do with SLI? Then last month I bought a 1060 6gb for $189 and it rocks. I think my RX 580 out does it at 1440p and DX12. It however was plug and play. It sips power and is super stable. You know how it is supposed to work. Like AMD was 17.7.1 drivers and earlier! I have zero complaints about either green team card.

[colesdav]

Hi,

Interesting info.

My GTX780Ti has been great - it was cheaper than the HD7970 OC 6GB card that failed on me (although I have 'repaired' it, and performs better on most titles.
I had to pair the HD7970 OC 6GB with an R9 280x OC 3GB to beat the GTX 780Ti.

The Nvidia drivers have been very stable. Updating drivers just works for the most part.GeForce Experience is now just as good as Crimson ReLive recorder now.

I do not like the fact that you have to log into Nvidia to use GeForce Experience but the same thing was true of Raptr AMD Gaming Evolved App.
I think they need to do it to allow automated game setting optimizations, which AMD no longer provide.

Since Nvidia still provide drivers for Windows 8.1 64bit, but AMD force users onto Windows 10  early I find comments about GeForce Experience data mining versus AMD Adrenalin a ridiculous comparison. You do not have to use GeForce Experience anyhow.

If you want to move to Linux, the Nvidia experience is easier on Ubuntu at least. There is a Linux GUI for Nvidia cards to control your GPU Fans and monitor temps and set graphics settings etc. AMD have nothing in comparison at the moment.

I was pretty happy with the R9 FuryX and Nanos up until this time last year though, and I would prefer to stay with AMD cards.

Things that are pushing me towards purchasing Nvidia next time are:

(1). Adrenalin Driver instability.

(2). Power consumption on AMD GPU's is much higher than Nvidia cards, meaning no 2 slot high air cooled Vega 64 GPU that will not run loud and throttle. Can't even find a 2 slot high Vega 56 GPU yet. I can get a GTX1080 for similar price  to a Vega 56 and some GTX1080Ti prices close to RX Vega 64 until recently.

(3). Dropping Windows 8.1 64bit Drivers,
(4). AMD Linux driver situation on Ubuntu and other Linux. No GUI to monitor or control cards.
(5). Radeon Chill does not work properly on any of my AMD GPUs. I think someone in AMD to demonstrate that it actually works or else stop promoting it or fix it.

Bye.

[pokester]

I saw some really cool demo online about a year ago of a AMD primary card with a Nvidia secondary. They did the test with it reversed, with two AMD cards and with 2 Nvidia cards alone with AOTS. It was pretty cool because the best scores were with the cards mixed and the AMD primary. This really shows DX12 to work but I worry that as the implementation is controlled at the game engine. I worry that as NVIDIA and AMD endorse games that often mean money and free product to the developers. That they will in turn make sure lower end cards don't work in Multi GPU. Obviously the president on this is set in crossfire and sli as they already limit this for no other reason than they don't want you to.

[colesdav]

Hi,

Yes I saw some demos of that - here is one of them: Ashes of the Singularity DX12 Multi-GPU Tech Analysis - Run AMD and Nvidia Cards Together! - YouTube
Note - they are runinng two R9 Fury X and see positive scaliong. -  I used to. I  don't any more fopr ~ 1 year.

I think Nvidia dropped support for SLI on the GTX1060 cards?
Bye.